Honk Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 22 minutes ago, Ravinsild said: That said I can see 3 ways to play the Deathmarch Battalion. Yes to #1 and #2, don’t know to #3... As I said above, I really don’t like the battalion, because it is rather expensive and has a lot of requirements, buuuut... I really like the Idea of the wightking ambushing with blackknights! Maybe even bringing a unit of skellis of GG with him for objectives or flank protection. Might not be tournament winning, but playable. Soulblight sadly is the poor mess that it is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravinsild Posted September 19, 2018 Author Share Posted September 19, 2018 10 minutes ago, Honk said: Yes to #1 and #2, don’t know to #3... As I said above, I really don’t like the battalion, because it is rather expensive and has a lot of requirements, buuuut... I really like the Idea of the wightking ambushing with blackknights! Maybe even bringing a unit of skellis of GG with him for objectives or flank protection. Might not be tournament winning, but playable. Soulblight sadly is the poor mess that it is... Right now I can only play 1,000 point games but I think I’ll be focusing on Deathmarch and Deathrattle for now. I still have vampire lists planned for the future including Blood Knights and Neferata and Vargheists, but I think either LoS or LoN might be the way to go for now. Amusingly, with LoS, if I bring a Mortis Engine and perhaps (possibly) a Corpse Cart I can get up to +3 casting on my Vampire Lord and Necromancers... which could make my debuffs quite potent. Unfortunately I can’t take Arkhan in LoS or else he will make me make him be general and then I don’t get the 3” movement in addition to the Battalion, but the free regeneration as well as deathly invocations and smart Grave Yard sites can make for one fast and tanky army that just won’t stay down. I think I should find the best defensive artifact in the game to help out my Wight King since him being alive is very important! With LoN it’s a little less speedy in terms of raw movement inches but the ability to deepstrike onto any board edge at all is pretty amazing. Not as casting heavy either, however. I think my Vampire Lord basically must take Vile Transference and be a body guard for my Wight King always giving him heals. Perhaps a Core leadership of Mortis Engine for +1 Cast, Vampire Lord with wings for attack buffs and Vile Transference to heal my Wight King and a Wight King on Steed with the best defensive artifact is the core of my army, then a Necromancer with Chronomatic Cogs. The question is then 1 or 2 Necromancers... and a Balewind Vortex or not... for a possibility of 1 of the Necromancers having 3 spells. If he’s stuck in my backfield the odds of him being able to magically contribute are fairly low however... Just some things to think about. I like the regeneration aspects and I think the Battalion, Graveyards and Deathly Invocations give a staying power that Ironjawz lack whilst still having a ton of mobility. Flying Vampire Lord moves 10, possibilities+2 with Cogs, Wight King on Skeletal Steed moves 12”, maybe 14 with Cogs, Mortis Engine runs 12”, 14 with Cogs, then LoS gives a free 7” to any units in the Battalion near my general, plus +2” so even Skeleton Warriors can move 13” with Cogs. That’s a really fast Army with lots of attack buffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deynon Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 26 minutes ago, Ravinsild said: I know, I understood you when you said I couldn’t use Soulblight last time. You just asked how I could have moved my skeletons 8” during the movement phase and I explained a way I thought I could. I hadn’t really read in great detail all the Soulblight restrictions however. That said I can see 3 ways to play the Deathmarch Battalion. Way #1 is the Legion of Night, setting up all my Skeleton Warriors in my territory and trying to lure the enemy toward me, to benefit from my +1 save whilst wholly within my territory. Then ambushing from the flanks or their own territory my Wight King, unit of Black Knights and unit of Grave Guard with Two-handed Weapons, then in my hero phase move toward the enemy and in the subsequent movement and charge phases try to hit their support heroes or take out any stragglers holding an objective in their territory. Way #2 is more like a straight up Ironjawz Ironfist Battalion: Legion of Sacrament and just move everyone forward. Take the Master of Death command trait so that my units can move 7” in the hero phase and then 4-10 (GG, SW or BK) in movement +2 from Cogs. Take a Mortis Engine and gain +2 to cast on my Necromancers hopefully making Cogs easier to cast... once my units are in combat where I want them flip the switch for bonus spells so my necromancers can debuff and Vanhel’s Danse at the same time. Way #3 is a bit more of a grind... Grand Host of Nagash, using the re-roll failed charges command trait. The Allegiance abilities make the regeneration aspect of death and the Battalion even stronger.... it will be almost impossible to wipe units... they will continually respawn. They wont be as fast as LoN deep strike, or LoS pure movement, but they’ll also be a bit harder to kill in general and have more reliable charges. In addition if I run Morghasts, who won’t benefit from Deathmarch, but will be able to grant them more attacks. I could bring Arkhan for more spells or instead opt for a Vampire Lord to buff my Morghasts attacks further for a very killy and still pretty fast hard hitting unit. I am not sure which Legion matches this type of playstyle best. All of them have pros and cons. Grand Host is very tanky with more reliable charges, LoS makes it easier to cast Cogs first turn for bonus movement and is over land the fastest of them all, and LoN allows precision strikes with my hardest hitting units almost right where I want them... although the other two units can also simply use Graveyards and summon units from the Graveyard as well. There’s a lot of mobility choices. About way #1 I'd suggest you to take note about morghasts harbingers to realize your plan to add to your army. You'd also mantain a sort of skeleton theme. Obviously it depends n how many points you play with. At least in this way you'd have an alternative for the charging in case you need rend to ambush. Anyway remember that you enter from he border in the movement phase, while the deathmarch movement is in the hero phase, so you risk to not make good use of such a rule. You have to wait your next turn to apply. I'm not so sure it would work well. I fnd the grave guard the weakness of the deathmarch. About Way #2: the problem is the range. So you risk to have to make the wight king itself the general if you want to apply both the effects. If it would have been merely a within 9" as written it would not have been a problem, but being a wholly within 12" based on the size of the units you risk to have rpoblem to maneuver the units and keeping both general and wight king near each other is risking. Technicallly it's faster with the LoS than with LoN. Cause LoN it require you to use command points to reroll the charge eventually. Instead with LoS you'd have. 4" by battalaion 3" by general 4" movement so a 11" free movement for the infantry, and a 19" for the black knights. Taken note that usually the deployment seees the units 24" distant, It means that virtually the black knights would be able to charge automatically (banner basic charge of 6"). Obivously is a heavenly situation. If you are able to cast cogs is much easier too and even infantry would have a change going to a 13" total movement, but you'd still need a 11" dice throw, not so easy^^ About way #3 sincerly I prefer Lord of Nagashizzar if point on a deathrattle verison, still Ancient strategist is not bad at all. Remmember that the battle trait Legions innumeerable works on a 5+... is not so easy to activate it. The advantage of Grand host of Nagash is also that makes the Grave guards a battleline too. Remember that to use deathmarch you invest quite a lot of points, so it's not as simple as you can think and the general for your schemes is vital and the only model that would suit in survaibility is the coven throne. 21 minutes ago, Honk said: Yes to #1 and #2, don’t know to #3... As I said above, I really don’t like the battalion, because it is rather expensive and has a lot of requirements, buuuut... I really like the Idea of the wightking ambushing with blackknights! Maybe even bringing a unit of skellis of GG with him for objectives or flank protection. Might not be tournament winning, but playable. Soulblight sadly is the poor mess that it is... Having a better wight king would have been better, even only having still the stendard option it would have been much more reliable. Soulblight have a natural competitor: Legion of Blood. They point to increase the value of same units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravinsild Posted September 19, 2018 Author Share Posted September 19, 2018 14 minutes ago, deynon said: About way #1 I'd suggest you to take note about morghasts harbingers to realize your plan to add to your army. You'd also mantain a sort of skeleton theme. Obviously it depends n how many points you play with. At least in this way you'd have an alternative for the charging in case you need rend to ambush. Anyway remember that you enter from he border in the movement phase, while the deathmarch movement is in the hero phase, so you risk to not make good use of such a rule. You have to wait your next turn to apply. I'm not so sure it would work well. I fnd the grave guard the weakness of the deathmarch. About Way #2: the problem is the range. So you risk to have to make the wight king itself the general if you want to apply both the effects. If it would have been merely a within 9" as written it would not have been a problem, but being a wholly within 12" based on the size of the units you risk to have rpoblem to maneuver the units and keeping both general and wight king near each other is risking. Technicallly it's faster with the LoS than with LoN. Cause LoN it require you to use command points to reroll the charge eventually. Instead with LoS you'd have. 4" by battalaion 3" by general 4" movement so a 11" free movement for the infantry, and a 19" for the black knights. Taken note that usually the deployment seees the units 24" distant, It means that virtually the black knights would be able to charge automatically (banner basic charge of 6"). Obivously is a heavenly situation. If you are able to cast cogs is much easier too and even infantry would have a change going to a 13" total movement, but you'd still need a 11" dice throw, not so easy^^ About way #3 sincerly I prefer Lord of Nagashizzar if point on a deathrattle verison, still Ancient strategist is not bad at all. Remmember that the battle trait Legions innumeerable works on a 5+... is not so easy to activate it. The advantage of Grand host of Nagash is also that makes the Grave guards a battleline too. Remember that to use deathmarch you invest quite a lot of points, so it's not as simple as you can think and the general for your schemes is vital and the only model that would suit in survaibility is the coven throne. Having a better wight king would have been better, even only having still the stendard option it would have been much more reliable. Soulblight have a natural competitor: Legion of Blood. They point to increase the value of same units. Another point to note is Wight Kings can be mounted, so they can keep up with the rest of the army with 12” movement speed, for an overall extremely quick army. I will test both LoN and LoS and see which I prefer. I’m excited to try this all out! Unfortunately I need to wait for my next paycheck to be able to buy some Black Knights haha. I think either Ethereal Amulet or Gryph-Feather Charm on the 3+ Wight King on Skeletal Steed will make for a fairly survivable general, plus having a Flying (or mounted!) Vampire Lord in addition to a Mortis Engine escort (which can heal him for D3 wounds if I activate the reliquary) in addition to Vile Transference can make for a pretty tanky General! I hope haha. I’m trying to imagine how I would deploy everything, perhaps leave a Necromancer in my territory with Cogs, and a Spell Portal so he can cast Vanhels Danse on the Skeletons with much further reach. It’s also possible to bring a Corpse Cart for another +1 cast bonus. The back line may be some minimum sized skeleton units with perhaps a shield grave guard unit, a Necromancer or two, corpse cart and spell portals whilst the offense is Mortis Engine, Wight King, Vampire Lord, 40 Skeletons, 10 2h Grave Guard and 10 Black Knights... or something similar. I also want to try out Morghasts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deynon Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 5 minutes ago, Ravinsild said: Another point to note is Wight Kings can be mounted, so they can keep up with the rest of the army with 12” movement speed, for an overall extremely quick army. I will test both LoN and LoS and see which I prefer. I’m excited to try this all out! Unfortunately I need to wait for my next paycheck to be able to buy some Black Knights haha. I think either Ethereal Amulet or Gryph-Feather Charm on the 3+ Wight King on Skeletal Steed will make for a fairly survivable general, plus having a Flying (or mounted!) Vampire Lord in addition to a Mortis Engine escort (which can heal him for D3 wounds if I activate the reliquary) in addition to Vile Transference can make for a pretty tanky General! I hope haha. I’m trying to imagine how I would deploy everything, perhaps leave a Necromancer in my territory with Cogs, and a Spell Portal so he can cast Vanhels Danse on the Skeletons with much further reach. It’s also possible to bring a Corpse Cart for another +1 cast bonus. The back line may be some minimum sized skeleton units with perhaps a shield grave guard unit, a Necromancer or two, corpse cart and spell portals whilst the offense is Mortis Engine, Wight King, Vampire Lord, 40 Skeletons, 10 2h Grave Guard and 10 Black Knights... or something similar. I also want to try out Morghasts. Pay attention. The wight king can be mounted and I have realised my personal one. But you have to consider the movement of the units n the warscroll batalion deeathmarch BEFORE moving the Wight king itself, by FAQ, even if the wight king can anyway still moved first. I use the Grypgh feather charm on my Coven throne as general, so playing usually LoN, I can only give the Wight king eventually the shard of Night. With LoS you'd havee the Shroud of Darkness that it's even better. If you want to buy the black knights take note about the boxes, they give you quite a saving in money. Remember that vampire lord and wight king have really low amount of wounds, so healing them not necessarily is something that can prevent them to be dead before you can heal them. You'll have a lot to experiment so^^ I'm almost on your same trail, but I have done different choices, but I also play at 2000 points usually so I have more options at my disposal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravinsild Posted September 19, 2018 Author Share Posted September 19, 2018 5 minutes ago, deynon said: Pay attention. The wight king can be mounted and I have realised my personal one. But you have to consider the movement of the units n the warscroll batalion deeathmarch BEFORE moving the Wight king itself, by FAQ, even if the wight king can anyway still moved first. I use the Grypgh feather charm on my Coven throne as general, so playing usually LoN, I can only give the Wight king eventually the shard of Night. With LoS you'd havee the Shroud of Darkness that it's even better. If you want to buy the black knights take note about the boxes, they give you quite a saving in money. Remember that vampire lord and wight king have really low amount of wounds, so healing them not necessarily is something that can prevent them to be dead before you can heal them. You'll have a lot to experiment so^^ I'm almost on your same trail, but I have done different choices, but I also play at 2000 points usually so I have more options at my disposal. Well, so far my opponents have been Khorne and Slaneesh with 0 shooting thus far, so the Shroud is not very effective. Against armies with shooting it will be, but if I keep playing these same opponents it will be useless haha. I am building up to 2,000 points myself. Slowly but surely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deynon Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 1 minute ago, Ravinsild said: Well, so far my opponents have been Khorne and Slaneesh with 0 shooting thus far, so the Shroud is not very effective. Against armies with shooting it will be, but if I keep playing these same opponents it will be useless haha. I am building up to 2,000 points myself. Slowly but surely. Cause you haven't seen the khorne shooting version ahahaaha^^ Anyway a lot depends from their own opponents. I usually prefer to have a versatile list, so I prefer to be able to answer to all the oppositions^^ Do it slowly, but if you have access to some dscounts, take note of the boxes, cause you can save a lot of money gaining more units that eventually you can use later^^ and remember that the magnets are the way, and the black knights can be magnetized too^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honk Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 Regarding endless spells, I also would not take the portal if you’re not going to soul harvest or Hand of dust through it. a vortex is 20 points cheaper.... +1 save +1 spell +6“ range. so your necromancer can cast overwhelming dread and van hels both every round at a 24“ range. Since the vortex counts as part of the model the -1 to hit for ranged attacks and the bodyguard rule still apply. And it cannot be used against you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravinsild Posted September 19, 2018 Author Share Posted September 19, 2018 4 hours ago, Honk said: Regarding endless spells, I also would not take the portal if you’re not going to soul harvest or Hand of dust through it. a vortex is 20 points cheaper.... +1 save +1 spell +6“ range. so your necromancer can cast overwhelming dread and van hels both every round at a 24“ range. Since the vortex counts as part of the model the -1 to hit for ranged attacks and the bodyguard rule still apply. And it cannot be used against you. Ah ok I see! I think at 2k points I would be running two Necromancers. They gain 1 additional spell each... i was personally thinking of running Overwhelming Dread and Decrepify. -1 to hit and to wound on a model would be a really rough debuff to cope with. I also like the looks of Fading Vigor, -1 attack versus Khorne armies stings! Plus -1 Bravery with Skeletons around makes it -2 etc... could do a mini bravery bomb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deynon Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 55 minutes ago, Ravinsild said: Ah ok I see! I think at 2k points I would be running two Necromancers. They gain 1 additional spell each... i was personally thinking of running Overwhelming Dread and Decrepify. -1 to hit and to wound on a model would be a really rough debuff to cope with. I also like the looks of Fading Vigor, -1 attack versus Khorne armies stings! Plus -1 Bravery with Skeletons around makes it -2 etc... could do a mini bravery bomb remember that gaining spells doesn't mean being able to use them each turn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravinsild Posted September 19, 2018 Author Share Posted September 19, 2018 1 hour ago, deynon said: remember that gaining spells doesn't mean being able to use them each turn That’s why I bring 2 Necromancers.... With Balewind Vortex I will get 3 spells a turn (2 from the one on Vortex, 1 from the other one) and a 4th spell from my Vampire Lord but he chooses spells from a different table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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