I want to play a vampire army but I don’t know how.

[Black_Fortress_Immortal]

This list has worked well:

Allegiance: Soulblight
- Bloodline: Swift Death
Mortal Realm: Ulgu
Vampire Lord On Zombie Dragon (440)
- General
- Deathlance & Shield & Chalice
- Trait: Mist Form 
- Artefact: Doppelganger Cloak 
- Lore of the Vampires: Amethystine Pinions
Vampire Lord (140)
- Mount: Flying Horror
- Artefact: Sigil of the Sanguine Throne 
- Lore of the Vampires: Spirit Gale
Prince Vhordrai (480)
- Lore of the Vampires: Vile Transference
5 x Blood Knights (240)
5 x Blood Knights (240)
5 x Blood Knights (240)
5 x Dire Wolves (60)
- Allies
Castellans of the Crimson Keep (150)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 60 / 400
Wounds: 88
 

The key is selecting the proper board's edge to be that of the Crimson Keep.  Rerolling failed hits for Vhordrai and Blood Knights is such an immense bonus to be had.  4 drops could be seen as fairly heavy, but on some scenarios and army compositions, you may want to make their back edge be the bonus edge, and to go for the alpha strike when there's an 18" gap between deployment zones as you deploy your battalion on the board rather than within the keep.  With Swift Death and the Blood Knights, you're going to automatically be able to charge if they're deployed on the frontline without even having to roll anything.  Being able to retreat, charge, and pick your battles is such a massive benefit for the VLoZD and Doppelganger Cloak.  It's possible to strategically count out your pile-ins, the damage inflicted, and the enemy deaths so that your VLoZD is rarely the valid target for any pile-in attacks.  Keep Death Knight on your VLoZD, as he is not part of the battalion, and you can slam the enemy lines with flying cavalry charges.

[Lemon Knuckles]

21 minutes ago, Black_Fortress_Immortal said:

Being able to retreat, charge, and pick your battles is such a massive benefit for the VLoZD and Doppelganger Cloak.  

Love the thought behind the Cloak and Mistform combo!

22 minutes ago, Black_Fortress_Immortal said:

Rerolling failed hits for Vhordrai and Blood Knights is such an immense bonus to be had.  

Vhordrai does not get re-rolls with the batallion... just the Knights.

[Ravinsild]

56 minutes ago, Black_Fortress_Immortal said:

This list has worked well:

Allegiance: Soulblight
- Bloodline: Swift Death
Mortal Realm: Ulgu
Vampire Lord On Zombie Dragon (440)
- General
- Deathlance & Shield & Chalice
- Trait: Mist Form 
- Artefact: Doppelganger Cloak 
- Lore of the Vampires: Amethystine Pinions
Vampire Lord (140)
- Mount: Flying Horror
- Artefact: Sigil of the Sanguine Throne 
- Lore of the Vampires: Spirit Gale
Prince Vhordrai (480)
- Lore of the Vampires: Vile Transference
5 x Blood Knights (240)
5 x Blood Knights (240)
5 x Blood Knights (240)
5 x Dire Wolves (60)
- Allies
Castellans of the Crimson Keep (150)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 60 / 400
Wounds: 88
 

The key is selecting the proper board's edge to be that of the Crimson Keep.  Rerolling failed hits for Vhordrai and Blood Knights is such an immense bonus to be had.  4 drops could be seen as fairly heavy, but on some scenarios and army compositions, you may want to make their back edge be the bonus edge, and to go for the alpha strike when there's an 18" gap between deployment zones as you deploy your battalion on the board rather than within the keep.  With Swift Death and the Blood Knights, you're going to automatically be able to charge if they're deployed on the frontline without even having to roll anything.  Being able to retreat, charge, and pick your battles is such a massive benefit for the VLoZD and Doppelganger Cloak.  It's possible to strategically count out your pile-ins, the damage inflicted, and the enemy deaths so that your VLoZD is rarely the valid target for any pile-in attacks.  Keep Death Knight on your VLoZD, as he is not part of the battalion, and you can slam the enemy lines with flying cavalry charges.

Yeah I tried to build a similar list sort of but for whatever reason I just really want to run Neferata. Although running as Soulblight and having them Blood Knights be battleline opens up a lot of possibilities since I don’t have to bring a skeleton tax or whatever. 

[Black_Fortress_Immortal]

7 hours ago, Lemon Knuckles said:

Love the thought behind the Cloak and Mistform combo!

Vhordrai does not get re-rolls with the batallion... just the Knights.

Yep, you just have to make sure that you have more combat activations than your opponent does.  With how hard Blood Knights + Rerolls hit, or Vhordrai in combat, a lot should die before your VLoZD gets to go.

I mis-spoke, I meant having Dread Knight Command Ability on him + Quickblood.  Unless you roll a lot of 1s to wound, you're going to do a lot of damage.

[Ravinsild]

15 hours ago, Black_Fortress_Immortal said:

Yep, you just have to make sure that you have more combat activations than your opponent does.  With how hard Blood Knights + Rerolls hit, or Vhordrai in combat, a lot should die before your VLoZD gets to go.

I mis-spoke, I meant having Dread Knight Command Ability on him + Quickblood.  Unless you roll a lot of 1s to wound, you're going to do a lot of damage.

I just don’t have enough points in one list to get everything I want  

i want to make a list where Vargheists are good, Black Knights are good, Blood Knights are good, Grave Guard are good and have good heroes who can support and help them be awesome. Plus I just like Skeletons and Morghasts look freaking awesome not to mention the big monsters and the coven throne.... 

i feel like at the end of it I’ll have 12 lists and one will be skeleton focused and one vampire focused and one Vargheists and ambushy and fast and one will be a mix of skeletons and vampires and one will be magical and casters with necromancers and stuff....

i guess for now I just need to pick 1 list and get all the models then go out from there. Not sure which of the two lists I should shoot for first.... 

i could drop the lists here if anyone wants to provide any feedback on the better or easier to collect list.

[Black_Fortress_Immortal]

20 minutes ago, Ravinsild said:

I just don’t have enough points in one list to get everything I want  

i want to make a list where Vargheists are good, Black Knights are good, Blood Knights are good, Grave Guard are good and have good heroes who can support and help them be awesome. Plus I just like Skeletons and Morghasts look freaking awesome not to mention the big monsters and the coven throne.... 

i feel like at the end of it I’ll have 12 lists and one will be skeleton focused and one vampire focused and one Vargheists and ambushy and fast and one will be a mix of skeletons and vampires and one will be magical and casters with necromancers and stuff....

i guess for now I just need to pick 1 list and get all the models then go out from there. Not sure which of the two lists I should shoot for first.... 

i could drop the lists here if anyone wants to provide any feedback on the better or easier to collect list.

Right, well there's a difference between wanting to "get everything I want" and playing pure vampires as effectively as you can.  

[Honk]

3 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

i feel like at the end of it I’ll have 12 lists

Maybe it’s a good thing to bring a broken list for starters. Just throw everything in the list, stirr the gumbo up and see what happens.

after your devastating loss, see what performed best and what you liked best, then try to tweak your list from there...

[Ravinsild]

Well the two lists are pretty different but I would like to just focus it Down to one or the other and pursue those units then expand outward to other possibilities at a later time. 

Im not sure what the best vampire lore spells are or the best artifacts (Allegiance or Realm) for death so for now I haven’t chosen any. In addition I don’t know the good command traits and I don’t even think Neferata or Mannfred come with one unlike 40k where named characters come with one locked in at least. 

List 1 looks like this:

Allegiance: Legion of Blood

Leaders
Neferata Mortarch Of Blood (400)
- General
Vampire Lord (140)
Vampire Lord (140)
Bloodseeker Palanquin (320)

Battleline
40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)
- Ancient Blades
5 x Dire Wolves (60)
5 x Dire Wolves (60)

Units
5 x Blood Knights (240)
5 x Blood Knights (240)

Battalions
Court of Nulahmia (110)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 123

List #2: 

Allegiance: Legion of Night

Leaders
Mannfred Mortarch Of Night (420)
- General
Vampire Lord On Zombie Dragon (440)
- Deathlance & Shield & Chalice
Vampire Lord (140)

Battleline
40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)
- Ancient Blades
10 x Skeleton Warriors (80)
- Ancient Blades
10 x Skeleton Warriors (80)
- Ancient Blades

Units
10 x Black Knights (240)
3 x Vargheists (160)
3 x Vargheists (160)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 134
 

For list #2 it’s entirely possible I could cut the Black Knights and add the Battalion for legion of night for re-rolls on skeleton healing and extra Vargheists attacks but then I would have 70 points I wouldn’t know what to do with. 

[Honk]

4 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

Well the two lists are pretty different but I would like to just focus it Down to one or the other 

Sadly I think both lists are quite reasonable and exciting to play.

mortarch can be magnetized, so no trouble there.

I personally would never leave my castle without a necromancer, and personally like  legions of the night a lot.

So I would throw out one vamp lord, for a necro, reduce all 10 skelli squads to wolves and with the last 70 points get a third unit of dire puppies.

centre line rock solid with 40 skellis, necro and the bait rule under close supervision of Mannfred.

as ambush the Vlozd and the two vargheist squats, while the black knights charge up the other flank.

 

[Ravinsild]

6 hours ago, Honk said:

Sadly I think both lists are quite reasonable and exciting to play.

mortarch can be magnetized, so no trouble there.

I personally would never leave my castle without a necromancer, and personally like  legions of the night a lot.

So I would throw out one vamp lord, for a necro, reduce all 10 skelli squads to wolves and with the last 70 points get a third unit of dire puppies.

centre line rock solid with 40 skellis, necro and the bait rule under close supervision of Mannfred.

as ambush the Vlozd and the two vargheist squats, while the black knights charge up the other flank.

 

But you wouldn’t not run the Battalion for the 2nd list? Alrighty. Thanks  

[Honk]

33 minutes ago, Ravinsild said:

you wouldn’t not run the Battalion

Too expensive, too meeeh...

one attack extra for the vargheist and reroll invocation for mannfred, imo not worth the price tag, might just take another whole squat of vargheist before paying those points 

[Ravinsild]

1 hour ago, Honk said:

Too expensive, too meeeh...

one attack extra for the vargheist and reroll invocation for mannfred, imo not worth the price tag, might just take another whole squat of vargheist before paying those points 

Ah ok got it. I made the changes you suggested. 

Whats the purpose of necromancers? 

[Honk]

2 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

Whats the purpose of necromancers? 

?????????

Making Death Great Again?!

he is the guy within the skelli/ghast-block who can either debuff the opponent with overwhelming dread (-1 to hit /bravery) or turn the attack dial to 11 with his van hels signature spell (pile in&attack a 2. time)...

One of our main support heros

[Ravinsild]

17 minutes ago, Honk said:

?????????

Making Death Great Again?!

he is the guy within the skelli/ghast-block who can either debuff the opponent with overwhelming dread (-1 to hit /bravery) or turn the attack dial to 11 with his van hels signature spell (pile in&attack a 2. time)...

One of our main support heros

Oh then yes I want one. Can he resurrect fallen models? Raise the dead so to speak? 

If he can then what I could do is I could put the VLoZD and Vargheists in hiding and drop a Chronomatic Cogs. I could keep it on speed to bait my enemy into coming at me then ambush them with my hidden units, then turn it off for 2 spells and whichever unit engaged my trap is -1 to hit me and bravery and my skeletons are suddenly pouring attacks out whilst still being rengerated constantly to stay above 30 models hopefully. 

I could drop a pack of doggos cuz they’re the same price. 

[Honk]

... now you start to see the truth...

He can invigorate 2 units for d3, grants deathless minions and cast one spell. Also can pass over (mortal) wounds to a nearby summonable unit within 3“... to keep him save

[AverageBoss]

1 hour ago, Honk said:

... now you start to see the truth...

He can invigorate 2 units for d3, grants deathless minions and cast one spell. Also can pass over (mortal) wounds to a nearby summonable unit within 3“... to keep him save

He has been erratad to be able to pass both normal and mortal wounds once more.

[Ravinsild]

5 hours ago, Honk said:

... now you start to see the truth...

He can invigorate 2 units for d3, grants deathless minions and cast one spell. Also can pass over (mortal) wounds to a nearby summonable unit within 3“... to keep him save

Wow so he is extremely powerful. He’s what a Bloodsecrator is to Khorne. 

[Honk]

He debuffs an enemy or allows our battleline to attack twice... 

7 hours ago, AverageBoss said:

He has been erratad to be able to pass both normal and mortal wounds

As should, since a wound is a wound...

the „mortal“ only refers to not having to make a „to wound-roll“ or the getting a classic armor save.

[AverageBoss]

21 minutes ago, Honk said:

He debuffs an enemy or allows our battleline to attack twice... 

As should, since a wound is a wound...

the „mortal“ only refers to not having to make a „to wound-roll“ or the getting a classic armor save.

Despite what the main rrulebook says on that matter, GW seems intent to differentiate between them from book to book.

Plus page 6 of the FAQ states:
 

"Q: If an ability says it negates a wound, will it also negate a

mortal wound?

A: No, unless the ability specifically says it negates

mortal wounds. By the same token, an ability that

negates only mortal wounds will not negate wounds."

[Honk]

Good thing to keep rules inconsistent, keeps people alert and an open discussion alive...

I‘m always pretty amazed by the rule shenanigans they pull of, over 30 years of tabletop rule development has to lead somewhere

[Ravinsild]

With deathly invocations does it “reset” each hero? 

For instance I have 3 squads of skeletons, Squad A is 40 down to 30, Squad B is down to 6 and Squad C is down to 4. 

Neferata uses deathly invocation and rolls a 5 bringing back 3 models to Squad A then a 2 to bring back 1 to B then a 4 to bring back 2 to C. 

Now since it says “different units” does that mean Vampire Lord cannot target them because you have to target a different unit with each subsequent use or does it reset and I can pick Squad A, B and C with vampire lord and necromancer too? 

[deynon]

On ‎9‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 2:27 AM, Ravinsild said:

With deathly invocations does it “reset” each hero? 

For instance I have 3 squads of skeletons, Squad A is 40 down to 30, Squad B is down to 6 and Squad C is down to 4. 

Neferata uses deathly invocation and rolls a 5 bringing back 3 models to Squad A then a 2 to bring back 1 to B then a 4 to bring back 2 to C. 

Now since it says “different units” does that mean Vampire Lord cannot target them because you have to target a different unit with each subsequent use or does it reset and I can pick Squad A, B and C with vampire lord and necromancer too? 

The text is slighty different. Anyway, it's said in the way that you can't use the 4 unholy invocation usages on the same unit. 

The requirement to pick units are them to be damaged, so that you can't go over their iniatial number. 

You can pick those units again with other characters, with the condition that those units are "damaged".

[Honk]

The rules for invocation is a little bit complicated, especially with multi-wound models and wounded models, if I recall correctly: first heal, then regain models. which might fumble your rolls, roll a six to heal one wound on a spirit host, then roll a four to not get a new model...

tricky and frustrating at times, but still, 40 skellis under „protection“ of 4 instances of DI heal 8 models per round...

[deynon]

23 minutes ago, Honk said:

The rules for invocation is a little bit complicated, especially with multi-wound models and wounded models, if I recall correctly: first heal, then regain models. which might fumble your rolls, roll a six to heal one wound on a spirit host, then roll a four to not get a new model...

tricky and frustrating at times, but still, 40 skellis under „protection“ of 4 instances of DI heal 8 models per round...

The invocation is something that I don't quite like, I preferred the rpeious unit autoregerating. 

Anyway there is a FAQ that precify how to heal. I spoke about single wondwd models to make it simple, but yes, in case of  a multiwonded model you have to first heal full wound the model and only after it you can summon back killed models: with a 2Wound model you require a 3+ to recover 1 model only, the wound on excess is lost; with a 3wounds one you need a 5+, otherway is useless; in case of 4wounds models you can only heal them, but not summon back slin models.

About your example of the 40 skeletons you need 4 differnt characters to be able to summon tham back 4 times^^ and anyway it could be 4 models as much as 12^^ (other options escluded).

[Ravinsild]

Ah thanks for the responses guys! Well at least a lot of the leaders I have all have the ability so I can spam it on the same units with different leaders over and over and hopefully keep them in the fight! Plus the Graveyards do it automatically too I think!