I want to play a vampire army but I don’t know how.

[Ravinsild]

So would this understanding of units I like and want to run be accurate? 

Neferata: Not the best but pretty ok. 

Mannfred: Overcosted and not great. 

VLoZD: Definitely great. 

Vampire Lord: Pretty Good. 

Wight King: Pretty Bad. 

Skeletons: One of the best

Morghasts: Decent but over costed

Black Knights: Decent but over costed

Dire Wolves: Pretty Good Pretty Great

Terrorghiest: Very Good

Vargheists: Not the best. Not awful. 

I may also want some Necromancers... which I think are actually very good. 

Then just for fun and themes I may get a coven throne and a corpse cart and stuff just for looking cool.

The best units seem to be ghosts...? Nighthaunt stuff we can use too?  

[deynon]

20 minutes ago, David Griffin said:

Absolutely. Can't discount the mounts as well. With Blood Feast in LoB, that's 20 attacks in addition to the 25 lance attacks.

Don't forget that in LoB, they also spread a -2 Bravery debuff. And they are naturally a 3+ save against attacks with no rend with the ability to heal a wound a turn. Not bad.

To suppress their problems I even thought about using the Endless Spell Emeral Lifeswarm. Maybe combines with Vhordrai so  to use it's  command ability on a near mage so that it can cast the endless spell and another spell too, but it's too expensive as Idea  to gain maybe 1 single model back.
 

11 minutes ago, Ravinsild said:

So would this understanding of units I like and want to run be accurate? 

Neferata: Not the best but pretty ok. 

Mannfred: Overcosted and not great. 

VLoZD: Definitely great. 

Vampire Lord: Pretty Good. 

Wight King: Pretty Bad. 

Skeletons: One of the best

Morghasts: Decent but over costed

Black Knights: Decent but over costed

Dire Wolves: Pretty Good Pretty Great

Terrorghiest: Very Good

Vargheists: Not the best. Not awful. 

I may also want some Necromancers... which I think are actually very good. 

Then just for fun and themes I may get a coven throne and a corpse cart and stuff just for looking cool.

The best units seem to be ghosts...? Nighthaunt stuff we can use too?  

Wight Kings are not so bad, and Mannfred too. 

Wight king with the new rules has become much more useful, yet I still hate the removing of the standard...

The only thing it's that you should it in mounted version to make it a little faster and gaving a biggger range for it's abilities. I had to create my own mount cause I hate thee only official GW one (soon I'll bìpublish a video about it^^).

Moreover it has a special meaning. It's the only base to have a warscroll battalion not named character related in LoN.
 

Morghasts are not overcosted, in Grand Host of Nagash they gain quite a bit and in Legion of Night, the Harbinger version can be rellay useful to arrive and charge from the sides, considering that they have 3d6 to do it and eventually you have also with a hero nearby to dmake them reroll that charge.

 

My favourite general and Hero model now with the new rules is the coven Throne. Quite cheap, decent numerber od wounds, attacks (in a legion of night all the attacks of the model can reroll the 1, so also maidens and ghosts too) and they gain protecttion cause they are no monsters so it gains "Look out,sir" and cover bonus too.

[Lemon Knuckles]

6 hours ago, Silchas_Ruin said:

I think people are overdoing Blood Knights suck.

I admit that my perspective is probably influenced by the fact that I love the idea of vampiric heavy cavalary., but I agree and think that saying that BKs "suck" is overkill.  They are not auto-pilot easy to use, and defensively they are just "meh."  But in LoB on the charge they are monsterous.  I'd almost be willing to state that on paper at least, they are the most point efficient unit in Death in terms of damage output.  Translating that onto the tabletop is a challenge, though, no doubt.

I do hold out hope that a Soulblight battletome will be coming at some point that will help these bloodsuckers really come into their own.  

[Ravinsild]

Is Deathrattle it’s own thing? I like Skeletons a lot, model wise, and I like all the Mortrarchs and vampire lord leader models. 

I could do a skeleton army with some vampire leaders. 

[deynon]

2 minutes ago, Ravinsild said:

Is Deathrattle it’s own thing? I like Skeletons a lot, model wise, and I like all the Mortrarchs and vampire lord leader models. 

I could do a skeleton army with some vampire leaders. 

You can.  I'm going on with a simila project too, but converting the vampire in skeleton riders to give all "bone theme" ^^ 

[kenshin620]

In all honesty for Legions of Nagash, I'd say the only truly "well you better REALLY like them to field them because they're not good" units would be zombies and the bats. Everything else can at least work.

Even Grave Guard can be usable....as long as you prefer the look of undead knights over reapers! (Though I really wish their weapon options were a bit more different. Weird that Great Weapons have the same Rend and Damage as normal hand weapons+shield)

[Ravinsild]

24 minutes ago, kenshin620 said:

In all honesty for Legions of Nagash, I'd say the only truly "well you better REALLY like them to field them because they're not good" units would be zombies and the bats. Everything else can at least work.

Even Grave Guard can be usable....as long as you prefer the look of undead knights over reapers! (Though I really wish their weapon options were a bit more different. Weird that Great Weapons have the same Rend and Damage as normal hand weapons+shield)

Yeah I really like skeleton knights more than reapers  

[deynon]

I use the Swarm Bats with the Legion of Night^^

Instead I have trouble to use the grave guard, it's a bit better since gh2018 , but still I  prefer normal skeletons to them. About their damage aoutput I completely agree.

[Ravinsild]

Starting Death has started a passion project for me that I may make a new thread to chronicle. 

[Honk]

60 zombies with a corpse cart:

2+/3+ (>40)... and reroll invocations, they’re not going anywhere and can dish out a bunch of wounds for 400 points. I wouldn’t say they are bad...

same goes for batswarms. I think  against a shooty opponent (skyfire), they do perform by being the sacrificial lambs...

and after bill szousa showed us how to Flesh Eater Court (6. at Nova) with a stupid monster list, I dare say you just have to know how to use it...

[AverageBoss]

I notice people talk about certain units being not bad, because they can be taken X army that gives them Y. I don't feel that is a solid argument and actually points to further weaknesses in those units. Competitively, I would never consider taking Morghasts outside Grand Host or LoN. And I would never consider taking Blood Knights outside LoB. GG were considered over costed before, and now we have Reapers which are literally better in every single way (better save, double the speed, double the reach, flight, ethereal, potential for mortal wounds, built in rerolls, and less points).

Undead is great and fun with a ton of varied options. But if you want a competitive all comers list, you will be shoehorned into specific builds because we simply have too many units that don't hold up at high level play.

[Honk]

54 minutes ago, AverageBoss said:

Undead is great and fun with a ton of varied options. But if you want a competitive all comers list, you will be shoehorned into specific builds because we simply have too many units that don't hold up at high level play.

+1000 to that...

and a solid -1000 to what was written befor. as you yourself explained the: trash this or don’t even bother to try, is only valid in high fly competitive randomized gaming... 

and then also not considering stupid luck and Szu-Tsu skillz.

[kenshin620]

I think though one thing that would really help out, even casual list building, is more varied battalions. I suppose they wanted to not use Nighthaunt since they already had a NH army in development, but there are still a good chunk of other units absent. I think all other newer books now use all units in a battalion one way or another (with varying success, don't talk to SCE about theirs).

Surprised for example there isn't a deadwalker styled battalion with Necromancer toting around corpse carts and zombies.

[Ravinsild]

Yeah from what I’ve seen basically none of the battalions in the LoN book are worth using at all and are kind of bad... 

All that said, I don’t play at the highest level, I don’t go to tournaments or anything. I just play at the local games Workshop store against whoever is available that week. 

[Honk]

5 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

none of the battalions in the LoN book are worth using at all and are kind of bad... 

It’s funny how different it is from 40k, where you have detachments and battalions all over the place, while in AoS, at least for undead (LoN/FEC) you either build your list around it or leave it.

Crazy Royal Family/Ghoul Patrol Madness aside...

and it is kinda sad, because it could potentially bring less used units back to the table.

Who fields a wightking?! Who plays Deathmarch?! Or zombies? If your crazy list gets an extra command point and a funny bonus rule, you might consider painting 60 zombies...

[deynon]

fec has a lot of useful battalions, only LoN has useless ones: or you play mortarch or you have a FAQ deceased battalion

I don't like the LoN battletome, but I love to play undead models. LoN is actually a mess, with a lot of correction just after its releasing. 

There are ways to play undead, but none full satisfactory with LoN

[Ravinsild]

2 hours ago, deynon said:

fec has a lot of useful battalions, only LoN has useless ones: or you play mortarch or you have a FAQ deceased battalion

I don't like the LoN battletome, but I love to play undead models. LoN is actually a mess, with a lot of correction just after its releasing. 

There are ways to play undead, but none full satisfactory with LoN

So basically the whole vampire parts are messed up because it seems most of LoN is either Nagash himself or vampire lead armies (Mannfred, Neferata, etc...) and then a bunch of random stuff (a few skeletons, a few ghosts, like 1 or 2 zombies and like the big monsters, the coven throne and similar models and Morghasts) 

[deynon]

5 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

So basically the whole vampire parts are messed up because it seems most of LoN is either Nagash himself or vampire lead armies (Mannfred, Neferata, etc...) and then a bunch of random stuff (a few skeletons, a few ghosts, like 1 or 2 zombies and like the big monsters, the coven throne and similar models and Morghasts) 

What I don't like it's mainly the LON being depent to the named characters as structure.

And yes, the LoN it seems a mess, with a lot of missing choices. I can understand the policy not to make play something the model doesn't exist, but c'mon, they could have sold new miniautes, live  fell bats, ba sworm, rider necromanders,wight king with standard, etc. The invented the palanquin, that it's a mocking to release " a new unit".

And in some way I don't like also the adding of units from NH to it. Don't misunderstand, I like the variability added,but make me perceive more the LoN:B like a sort of half ready product.

[Black_Fortress_Immortal]

Soulblight with Swift Death bloodline.  Take Vhordrai + VLoZD, or double VLoZD with Doppelganger Cloak, Amethystine Pinions, Mist Form.  Fill out the rest with 3 x 5 Bloodknights, Chronomantic Cogs and some Chainrasps, Direwolves, or something to grab objectives or cheaply screen.  Play under 50pts for an extra command point.  You're going to want to isolate or hit units with more than 1 so that your VLoZD remains safe until you choose to activate him.  With Cogs, your Blood Knights are flying 14" and your VLoZD 18"+ 5" (possible 10" for 10+ roll) with Amethystine Pinions.  Hit them hard, retreat and cycle charge somewhere else, shoot Vhordrai's 6 mortal wounds at something (he can run and do this, as well).  You're not going to get 1st all of the time, but you'll be able to kill a lot of armies and surprise them with Vhordrai's Fist of Nagash allowing your VLoZD to hero-phase Pile-in.  

[Thanatos Ares]

Ok so take this as you will:

 

ive only played undead since AoS dropped and I’ve only played the same list the whole time. It’s not considered high level competitive (what ever that means ??‍♂️) but over time as I began to learn the subtlety and nuances of my list my regular gaming group @SouthLondonLegion began to realise that it is a good list of the general knows what they’re doing with it. Yes their will always be bad match ups but that’s just what happens at a tourney. That being said MOST of my games are not tourney games.

i took my list to GW heat 2 and placed 14th (before AoS2) beating some “top tier” lists 

my list: (AoS1 variant)

VLoZD

VLoZD

3x 5 Dire Wolves

5 Black Knights

2 Harbringers w/ Halberds 

2x Terrorgheists

Legion of Night

 

my point is “competitive” is a word used for tourney lists that doesn’t actually mean that much. I beat a Skyfires netlist with my “unoptimised death list” because I knew my lists strengths and weaknesses more than my opponent did his AND I played the scenario NOT my opponent.

if you want to podium at a tourney then run a netlist, ANY other position then take a list you like that you know inside out. Because a unit is considered ‘bad’ doesn’t mean it’s not useable.

 

sorry, rant over lol

 

[Honk]

21 hours ago, Black_Fortress_Immortal said:

Soulblight with Swift Death bloodline. 

Short question/notice to that: are you sure you’re getting a vamp-spell?

I thought those were only for the Legions of Nagash, not for GA:Death, Soulblight or Allies

if you look at the f.e. Legion of sacrament page in the bottom left, there is a text field „Magic“ saying „choose an extra spell from the spell lore pg 78/79“. Sadly this field is missing for Soulblight... same with gravesite rules...

[Black_Fortress_Immortal]

1 hour ago, Honk said:

Short question/notice to that: are you sure you’re getting a vamp-spell?

I thought those were only for the Legions of Nagash, not for GA:Death, Soulblight or Allies

if you look at the f.e. Legion of sacrament page in the bottom left, there is a text field „Magic“ saying „choose an extra spell from the spell lore pg 78/79“. Sadly this field is missing for Soulblight... same with gravesite rules...

Soulblight gets lore of vampires.

"All WIZARDS in a SOULBLIGHT army know an additional spell from the Lore of Vampires (pg 71)"

[Deepkin]

My stab at a Legion of Blood list, 2k, for competitive games.

Prince Vhordrai

Vampire Lord of Zombie Dargon: Aura of Dark Majesty, Amaranthine Orb, Ethereal Amulet.

Necromancer, Overwhelming Dread.

2x5 Blood Knights.

1x30 Skeletons with spears.

1x20 Chainrasp Horde.

1x10 Chainrasp Horde

Skellies and chainrasp for objectives, Vhordrai and his Dargon buddy plus blood knights for killy. Thinking of dropping the Necro for 10 more skellies and one unit of direwolves to bubblewrap the bloodknights/steal objs.

Suffers from mortal wound spam, but throws out some hefty damage.

[AverageBoss]

3 hours ago, Deepkin said:

My stab at a Legion of Blood list, 2k, for competitive games.

Prince Vhordrai

Vampire Lord of Zombie Dargon: Aura of Dark Majesty, Amaranthine Orb, Ethereal Amulet.

Necromancer, Overwhelming Dread.

2x5 Blood Knights.

1x30 Skeletons with spears.

1x20 Chainrasp Horde.

1x10 Chainrasp Horde

Skellies and chainrasp for objectives, Vhordrai and his Dargon buddy plus blood knights for killy. Thinking of dropping the Necro for 10 more skellies and one unit of direwolves to bubblewrap the bloodknights/steal objs.

Suffers from mortal wound spam, but throws out some hefty damage.

I would drop 10 chainrasps for 10 skeletons and a pendulum. The necromancer is simply too good a force multiplier (and/or divider with debuffs) to not run imo. I never leave home with at the very least 2 of them.

[Ravinsild]

At this point I know I will never enter a tournament or try any super serious gaming so I’ve decided to just say ****** it and run something fluffy and cool. 

Allegiance: Legion of Blood

Leaders
Bloodseeker Palanquin (320)
- Lore of the Vampires: Vile Transference
Neferata Mortarch Of Blood (400)
- General
- Lore of the Dead: Decrepify (Deathmages)
Vampire Lord (140)
- Mount: Flying Horror
- Lore of the Vampires: Amaranthine Orb
Vampire Lord (140)
- Mount: Flying Horror
- Lore of the Vampires: Blades of Shyish

Battleline
5 x Dire Wolves (60)
5 x Dire Wolves (60)
40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)
- Ancient Spears

Units
10 x Blood Knights (480)

Battalions
Court of Nulahmia (110)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 123
 

Screen everything with Skeletons and Wolves, run Wolves onto objectives and camp them and screen with them as well, then engage skeletons on high value targets by Congo chaining them toward them. Once they’re locked in use Neferata’s spell and my flying vampire lords to follow up with a smashing flank attack and destroy that unit. Wash rinse and repeat and try to keep heals up on the Blood Knights and keep things pretty tight.