Why Stormcast must break when reforged

[Overread]

WARNING - if you've not read "Skaven Pestilens" you might want to skip this until you do.

 

 

So I just read Skaven Pestilens and realised something about Stormcast which is going to be critical if they are going to work as the focus of GW's marketing. They've got to SUFFER when being reforged. In fact I'd wager we've got to see this suffering and have it be a core part of them. That or GW has got to, at some point, shift the focus back to other factions or even toward a human faction. 

 

I say this because as I read the story there were essentially two forces at play - good and evil. Evil was Skaven and they were doing everything they could to stay alive; each fight for them was a real risk of killing them off and killing off named heroes in their clans (indeed several such named ones do fall).

For Stormcast and their Seraphon allies though it was different; for them there was only one character in the whole book who was actually at any risk - the Slaan mage (who is basically so powerful it wasn't killable by anything the skaven could even dream of throwing at it). The rest of them were either Seraphon who are the dreams of the Slaan given form when souls of the past are returned to the realms; thus for them death is no barrier to returning again. 

The same was true of the Stormcast, even their familiars are essentially immortal. Because of this there is a lack of emotion and worry about them. They can fight and fall in battle and they will be reforged and return to war alongside their fellows once again. This element takes a lot of the risk, gravity and indeed the energy of the book - you know they'll return if killed so you're not really all that worried if they make a valiant stand and fall. 

 

 

Now the story does say of one named fallen hero how their return will be marred by them being different and of how they might never be quite the same. There are hints of troubles in the reforming and even the Slaan comments in the book hint that the Stormcast, whilst being forged rather like the Seraphon, are not quite the same and not quite as perfect or pure or well forged. This is ok as Slaan are a sub-faction in the stories whilst Stormcast are the front and centre posterchild of the franchise.

This might well translate into the tabletop - there is potential to see Stormcast models that reflect this breaking state. They could be like the Flayed ones from Necrons - still allied but twisted and different and with abnormal behaviour. Or we could even see a time where we get a fallen Stormcast faction. Those who are reforged but who fall from the graces of Sigmar and fall to either chaos, destruction or even death! 

 

 

 

I think if this doesn't happen there's a risk that they will become too "Mary Sue" and too bland. Already the Slaan are near enough to a Mary Sue character as you can get; they work though because they are essentially a side-character group not a core character group. Although personally I'd like to see one Slaan decide that the Great Plan needs living Seraphon not just ghosts given form; to reforge and remake their people and to have them appear and not fight but breed and create a new generation of lizardmen. Indeed that could well happen and owuldn't even require a model change; just a gradual shift from summoned armies to standing forces and a race with lands, lore people and history

[BaldoBeardo]

Uh... This is kinda what happens already?

They are knowingly sacrificing themselves. They aren't immortal, it's just that each death isn't total - it diminishes them. There's your humanity angle.

They don't diminish physically - it's their soul that suffers. A Stormcast will reforge forever until they're nothing but a physically perfect combat automata.

[Kronos]

I may be wrong, and may have misread this somewhere. But I think the Ruination Chamber where the broken, but still servile and useful Stormcast are to be put, and maybe released at the utmost urgence. Again I may be wrong. Stormcast will display more faults as the lore progresses. I woudl hope for some 13th company-esque stormcast, with some sort of horrible trait. I dig the idea of them adorning themselves in gristly trophies, I'd also like see some take on aspects of the animals we associate with them feline claws, scaled skin etc.  

[michu]

@KronosI don't think it's confirmed, it's rather speculation. I can be mistaken, I don't have new ScE battletome.

[The World Tree]

Being reforged is very painful. It is also repeatedly suggested that for the individual, the immortality is a curse. They slowly lose who they are, but are aware that they've lost something. 

[Enoby]

While reforging is painful, as others have said, I agree that them being immortal removes a lot of the tension from fights. We will never know the personality of Liberator #11284, so when they and their buddies die there's no emotional connection (same as when Clan Rat #782901 dies), but as we know that Stormcast come back to life it makes the loss less important in the grand scheme of things. 

There's a big difference between an entire host of Stormcast being killed compared to an entire army of free people. The free people will not be able to recuperate for a very long time, whereas the Stormcast will be back fighting (even if they lose some personality, we won't ever know the personality of 99% of them). It's a bit like how it's difficult to care if a daemon dies (or their army is wiped out). However, the difference between Stormcast and daemons are that Stormcast as an army are the protagonists of the setting, and it's difficult to have a compelling narrative when the protagonists are immortal. Sure, it can work to focus on a small group of named Stormcast (and explore the consequences of failure from there), but it's no fun to read about the army as a whole and the Realmgate war books had a lot dedicated to scenes overlooking battles.   

In addition, I find it more compelling when the protagonists are much weaker than the antagonists - in fact, I can't stand media that focuses on how a super powerful hero shows how cool they are by beating up villains that are weaker than them. I much prefer a story with a struggle, as then the victory is much sweeter. Not only that, it makes the villains seem cooler when they're not being slapped around; I was turned off from Khorne's fluff by the books that included his army because it seemed so weak and unimportant compared to the Stormcast. Finally, my boyfriend mentioned that he felt worse about his Sylvaneth in the fluff as they basically turned into the damsel in distress waiting to be rescued. The Realmgate Wars lacked much of a struggle on the Stormcast's side (not that they never lost, but rather they seemed much more powerful than anything they were fighting) and that made me lose interest in a lot of the battles because it was obvious about who was going to win from the beginning. I even felt sorry for Khorne, as his armies were the punching bag of Sigmar.

 

That said, Malign Portents was a breath of crypt air. I really like how there was a focus on other factions, and the Stormcast seemed to have met their match. I'm hoping we see more of this, and Stormcast undergo more struggle (and most struggle focuses on reforging) so that the victories for Order seem more worthy. 

[Overread]

I think one aspect is that Age of Sigmar focuses on the heroic retaking of a world from Chaos when the world itself was one we didn't really have any attachment too. If it had been the Old World being reconquered there would have been some sense of the impossible loss to the other factions and thus the heroic Stormcast would feel fine in their superpowered state as they'd be bashing back superpowered Chaos who'd been eating and destroying all that we loved.

 

Instead we almost come in too late to the story; the world was formed, raised and then fell all in a few paragraphs. It leaves us a bit disconnected as now the Stormcast seem overpowered and, I agree, their rebirth mechanic takes some pressure out of them. I'd rather read of the Free Cities, Aelves, Dwarves and such who are fighting for their very lives not just Stormcast fighting because they are built to fight and will be reborn if they happen to fall. 

@Enoby I agree it would be great if we can see the story go further than Malign and see the Stormcast pushed down a few notches in their power and almost invulnerability. At the very least giving room for other factions to rise up as mighty peoples not just an entire series of realms of downtrodden and beaten factions waiting to be saved. 

[EccentricCircle]

One thing that really surprised me reading Soul War was how the death of the stormcast was handled. The comrades of a dead stormcast are genuinely not certain when or if their friend's soul will be reforged, or whether it will still be the same person who comes back if they are reborn. There is a distinct sense of grief which I wasn't expecting, and a lot more doubt that the background material, at least in the core books, conveys. You do feel the losses, as the battle goes on. The fact that the Nighthaunt can trap the souls, and prevent the reforging also adds a lot more peril to the scenario, and I definitely ended up rooting for them to kill the soul gaelor before it could take their friend's souls back to Nagash.

[MacDuff]

I'm totally down with Overread's Seraphon idea! Make them alive again so I can return to painting my lizards green.

[Overread]

Honestly the only question I have is when we will see the Congregation of the Worm arise! 

Though would be interesting to know how hard it was to write the Slaan into such a fight considering that it is basically a god in terms of power compared to everything else that was taking part in the battle (save perhaps the poor worm upon which the adventure took place. 

 

 

However I've no lastfm account 

[Yoshiya]

Have to agree with Enoby with the Slyvaneth. Recently everything about Alarielle's recovery has been talked of as a great victory for the Stormcast yet the original lore made it clear the Stormcast almost bought about disaster and the death of Alarielle by not thinking about their actions fully.

It's like everytime they write about a flaw if Stormcast they make sure to go back and hide it (with the exception of the super tropey "the longer you live/more you die the less human you become").

[Yoshiya]

I don't disagree that the Stormcast finding Alarielle didn't lead to the ultimate reversal of the war in Ghyran (although as Enoby states it's a very damsel in distress like rescue), just that they seem to have written out the problems with it.

The Stormcast Battletome I'm reading atm just seems to state "Thanks to the Hallowed Knights Alarielle took her war form and everything was all great".

No mention of their Slyvaneth allies and no mention of their arrogance in assuming their finding her wouldn't cause any issues.

Its a shame as I really think playing up the Stormcast arrogance could be a good way to introduce more depth to the faction. They could have simply added in a line to the above section saying something like "The Hallowed Knights proved themselves heroes of Ghyran, locating Alarielle and enabling her to take her war aspect to throw back the tides of Nurgle. Though a great alliance formed, some unease still lingers regarding the arrogance that caused the Hallowed Knights to first step into Alarielle hidden grove, inadvently leading the forces of Nurgle to one of the last uncorrupted regions of the Realm of Life."

Such a small line suddenly adds a ton for depth whilst still ultimately portraying the Stormcast as the heroes of the story (as is important given it is their own battletome).

Similarly they could have added in a small line regarding the Celestine Writ (agreement with locals that basically claims their lands for Sigmar in return for Stormcast protection). The battletome makes it sound like people gladly accept it but a small line saying it is accepted warily by a people broken by the rule of Chaos, or even that some reject it, unwilling to submit themselves to a new unknown people who fight in the name of a god that they believe abandoned them.

Would add tons of depth in a small sentence not by turning the Stormcast into villains themselves but rather but showing how not everyone welcomed them with open arms and freely submitted to their rule which seems to be the case with the vast majority of non-Chaos/Nagash worshipping people.

[Yokai]

16 hours ago, BaldoBeardo said:

They don't diminish physically - it's their soul that suffers. A Stormcast will reforge forever until they're nothing but a physically perfect combat automata.

Well, do they really? There was some interesting blurb in the Core Book somewhere (or was it the SCE Battletome?) about the deterioration of the Stormcast soul, which might eventually lead to complete physical breakdown and the Stormcast becoming a "mote of pure magical energy" or the like. And then no one knows what might happen.

[MacDuff]

Have you thought of putting a dot of paint on the underside of Stormcast bases each time they die/get reforged? Over time this could force varied SCE behaviors...