EMMachine Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 In the end, what are "High Elves". Even in the old world they were more or less a wild mix of Cults and Cultures. We had a Phoenix Cult aka Phoenix Temple, a Lion Cult aka Lion Rangers, a Dragon Cult aka Order Draconis a mage cult aka Eldritch Council (it's a shame, that the Dragonriders in this group aren't part of Oder Draconis as well) Seaguard (at the moment inside Swifthawk Agents) Shadow Warriors (at the moment inside Swifthawk Agents) Most of this stuff we still have now. The main problem is, that the Aelven Militia was mostly removed in 2016 (last units that could be count to some sort of Militia and not part of a Cult could be Chariots and the Highwarden, which are both inside the Swifthawk Agents). It is a problem, because the factionmix that was originally in the High Elves Book doesn't have any true Battlelines besides Reavers (which aren't available at the moment and the warscroll is only in the app). Why do we have to be stuck to the 3 Groups "highborn (a)elves", "dark (a)elves", "wood (a)elves? Why can't we just see the subfactions as cults and cultures that are working together. We have the Cults/Cultures I said above + the following nature aelves aka Wanderers Treekin aka Sylvaneth Sea Aelves aka Idoneth Deepkin Witch cult aka Daughters of Khaine Assassine Guild aka Shadowblades Lizard Cult aka Order Serpentis Corsaires/Beasttaimers aka Scourge Privateers Darkling Covens (as the next thing for a Militia) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morglum StormBasha Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 Yeah I would expect us within 5 years to end up with 9 aelf battletomes. We already have 3 and 2 extra allegiances Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siegfried VII Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 Just noticed today that almost all of the "High Elf" range is webstore exclusive and I feel it does not bode well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michu Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 Brayherds and Warherds are too and they're getting a battletome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenshin620 Posted September 4, 2018 Author Share Posted September 4, 2018 1 hour ago, Siegfried VII said: Just noticed today that almost all of the "High Elf" range is webstore exclusive and I feel it does not bode well... 53 minutes ago, michu said: Brayherds and Warherds are too and they're getting a battletome. That's because the boxes don't have round bases. Literally almost all legacy armies have this "issue" unless they have been repacked and imo either case doesn't mean one thing or another (other than they won't discontinue the box for a while if repacked). For example Start Collecting Greenskins exist so you can get the entire greenskin plastic line with round bases and in stores...but they have no allegiance and probably won't be updated in the near future if at all. Meanwhile Darklings haven't been repacked but at least have a GHB allegiance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aezeal Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 On 9/2/2018 at 3:30 PM, kenshin620 said: Compared to all the other factions of Order, ye old "High Elves" completely lack any presence in the GHB allegiances whereas Wanderers are still Wood Elves minus tree people and Darkling Covens are at least part of the Dark Elf line, and both of them have AoS related factions with Sylvaneth and Daughters of Khaine. Not to mention the rumors of "aelf angels" that I keep seeing pop up once in a while, unless that somehow absorbs some of the HE line. With all of these chips stacked against "high elves", is GW kind of implying "don't get your hopes up" for that entire model line? Unless the idea of an actual "Free Cities" Battletome is in the works. I think GW will not spend much effort on any old elf line. GW is about new lines.. maybe incorporating a single units that might fit the aesthetic (which in itself is rather unlikely for many generic looking older models). I don't even think wanderers will get a different treatment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overread Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 Except evidence speaks otherwise. The recent Beasts of Chaos is pretty much all old models; Daughters of Khaine is built on several old models being the core of the whole faction; Seraphon are totally an old army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aezeal Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 27 minutes ago, Overread said: Except evidence speaks otherwise. The recent Beasts of Chaos is pretty much all old models; Daughters of Khaine is built on several old models being the core of the whole faction; Seraphon are totally an old army. I don't see them doing the same for more generic elves though.. but maybe that is just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overread Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 Elves are as generic as bull-shaped humanoids in the world of fantasy - heck the additions to Daughts of Khaine are harpies and medusa - two highly generic additions in fantasy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenshin620 Posted September 5, 2018 Author Share Posted September 5, 2018 Well they could always pull off another Seraphon, turning mortals into not mortals. "See these guys?" Spoiler "They're Spirit Warriors now!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 16 minutes ago, Overread said: Elves are as generic as bull-shaped humanoids in the world of fantasy - heck the additions to Daughts of Khaine are harpies and medusa - two highly generic additions in fantasy. This is meant to be a critique? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requizen Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 I wouldn't expect anything existing that doesn't have a GHB Allegiance to get a Battletome any time soon. The precedent is something like: If you have a post-GHB Battletome, don't expect an update any time soon (unless you're Stormcast) If you have a pre-GHB Battletome, you got GHB 2017+ abilities and probably won't get a new Battletome, but will get viability updates (Seraphon, Flesh Eaters, and Fyreslayers are all fairly good right now, I'm still convinced Pestilens are good if you feel like painting ~200 rats) If you don't have a Battletome but received GHB abilities, you probably will get a Battletome soon (Nighthaunt, Brayherds, Death) If you don't have a Battletome and don't have GHB abilities, you're either getting mostly ignored or will get rolled into another army (various Death stuff, Warherds) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aezeal Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 4 hours ago, Overread said: Elves are as generic as bull-shaped humanoids in the world of fantasy - heck the additions to Daughts of Khaine are harpies and medusa - two highly generic additions in fantasy. I disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overread Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 4 hours ago, Tiger said: This is meant to be a critique? Not at all - I love the Melusai and Khinerai and Morathi! All I'm saying is that they are fairly generic things in fantasy by and large, just like elves are. Thus the idea that GW wouldn't keep High Elves (in some form or another) because they are generic didn't hold much grounds, in my view. GW has shown that they want to keep hold armies and old factions around* and this is sensible; they don't have to invest in new moulds for them and don't want to alienate old fans of the series. Doubly so when the computer game market has the massive and popular Warhammer TW as well as a slew of other games. GW has also shown that they are going to do new things, adding new things to factions and taking things in new twists . It is the best of both worlds in getting to keep classics and expanding into new armies. *The exception being those lost at the start of AoS when it was first launched and when the objectives and management direction were clearly vastly different to what they are today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenshin620 Posted September 6, 2018 Author Share Posted September 6, 2018 Well the arguments against generic elves, shouldn't that also be applied to Dispossessed? They lost slayers (outside of the unforged) and all their engineering stuff (Ironweld and technically KO a bit). The only really unique thing they have over other universes hammer/axe dwarfs is their flamethrower irondrakes. Yet they have a GHB allegiance and one of the few legacy armies that have been repacked for retail (with a few exceptions like their thunderer/quarreler box for some reason). But I guess it's because the higher ups like dwarfs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger Posted September 6, 2018 Share Posted September 6, 2018 I'd like to hear the attributes that make something generic. A poster asked why we need three divisions of (warhammer) elves? The answer is simple. It lies in the entire sense of elven pantheon. The high elves being aligned with the Cadai (light, order), the dark elves aligned with Cytharai (basically negative and darker gods) and wood elves somewhere in the twilight, but leaning more towards the light side. I haven't been convinced by posters who claimed the elves need to go away for being too generic or that Tolkien's influence is too strong and antiquated for a modern market. I do feel there were overlapping themes, however, Warhammer elves seem a very different kind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurglesFirstChosen Posted September 6, 2018 Share Posted September 6, 2018 The way I see it, it’s about money and ownership. What would Gw prefer to invest money (and time) in, a faction they’d inevitably have to pay image rights for or ones they create from scratch which they don’t. I believe gw will focus on factions in which they can truly call their own. I feel anyone who really feels high aelves etc weren’t taken from someone else’s creative work, are seeing what they want to see. I don’t mean any offence in that, but in my opinion it’s just wishful thinking. Who knows maybe some high aelves will be incorporated into teclis/Tyrion’s faction, similar to witch aelves and dok. At the end of the day though I wouldn’t expect any new miniatures of that type of aelf. I may be wrong but I would expect what I’ve described, but there’s nothing wrong in hoping for what you want ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiagoma Posted September 6, 2018 Share Posted September 6, 2018 We do not need new miniatures to be honest. All we need is a way to use then togheter. We have gorgeous models and no way to use then effectivly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SigvaldtheMagnificent Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 I just played against 4 bolt throwers, 30ish archers and the seawarden on foot. He was giving some re-rolling hits, wounds and saves with the command ability, and another +1 to wound for all highborn in 8" with his other ability. Pretty brutal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenshin620 Posted September 9, 2018 Author Share Posted September 9, 2018 On 9/6/2018 at 2:08 PM, NurglesFirstChosen said: I believe gw will focus on factions in which they can truly call their own. Because tree hugging elves that wear green and leather armor and primarily use bows are very specific to warhammer? Spoiler Yet Wanderers got to be repacked and enjoy a GHB allegiance. Sure they are connected to Sylvaneth but surprisingly they don't have too much synergy with that faction. This topic wasn't meant to see whether or not HE would get the DOK or Nighthaunt treatment, just that would they ever get at least a proper GHB allegiance, LON/BOC would be preferable. But even GHB seems to be too elusive for them despite a good chunk of other legacy armies being there including the other 2 old elf armies (partially). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurglesFirstChosen Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 I apologise I’ve obviously got the wrong end of the stick about the thread - my post was specifically talking about new models. I agree that the high aelf faction(s) need to be sorted out from a rules perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenshin620 Posted September 9, 2018 Author Share Posted September 9, 2018 Yea it can get a little confusing on what "updated" truly entails. Heck I am in the camp of "I'm fine with updated rules and no new models" for legacy armies. BoC sure looks like that, especially since it was a real stealth update. I just don't want anymore squatted armies, granted that was under a vastly different leadership. Dark times indeed. (Ok seriously they could have just relabeled all the bretonnia stuff as Free Peoples!) And I do realize AoS is suppose to be different, and maybe 5 years from now they will start squatting wanderers or free peoples (at least the original models), but many of these kits aren't that old especially all the 8th edition stuff. Plus GW has no problems with selling kits from 6th edition fantasy and 2nd-3rd edition 40k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledha Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 Since even beastmen were updated, i think everything can happen now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aspirant Snaeper Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 Updated Battletomes to make functional, cohesive armies is basically printing free money for GW. They've already invested in the lines, so putting out some endless spells and a book is minimal investment for a large potential return if they start moving old stuff. It can help gauge interest in the more traditional fantasy armies moving forward, as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 Would love to see some endless spells based on the old high magic, scenery and a new book! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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