Are "High Elves" the most in danger of not being updated for Order?

[kenshin620]

Compared to all the other factions of Order, ye old "High Elves" completely lack any presence in the GHB allegiances whereas Wanderers are still Wood Elves minus tree people and Darkling Covens are at least part of the Dark Elf line, and both of them have AoS related factions with Sylvaneth and Daughters of Khaine. Not to mention the rumors of "aelf angels" that I keep seeing pop up once in a while, unless that somehow absorbs some of the HE line.

With all of these chips stacked against "high elves", is GW kind of implying "don't get your hopes up" for that entire model line? Unless the idea of an actual "Free Cities" Battletome is in the works.

[Overread]

I think High Elves will have their time to shine when the "angel" aelves are added. At present I think they are sitting in the "generic aelf" bracket whilst also having been fractured into subgroups that are simply too small, for the most part, to be functional. I can't see GW getting rid of them as they've some great models and iconic sculpts - dragons, eagles, phoenix and mages. I just think that they are currently stuck in limbo at present like a lot of post AoS launch factions that got fractured.

[Tiger]

I worry about this issue at times. I've acquired a rather decent collection of them. Although I feel that models that survived thus far will have their rules for quite some time. A further thought is also that Daughters had a relatively small spotlight before they got their tome and few new models, there's also Martin on GW team that has a large force of Eldritch Council. Pheonix Temple along with Swifthawks has made an appearance in the background too. On the other hand that is not to say that the units are able to keep up with the new power creep that GW is producing and in line with the evil empire trope, they could be contented to let the issue sort itself.

Fingers crossed for one of older factions gets an update or angelic elves arrive sooner rather than later.

[kenshin620]

30 minutes ago, Overread said:

 At present I think they are sitting in the "generic aelf" bracket whilst also having been fractured into subgroups that are simply too small, for the most part, to be functional.

Well Darklings have an Allegiance and they have only 2 leaders and 5 units. Thats the same number as Swifthawks.! Granted I suppose Swifthawks lack the oomf of heavy infantry.

 

And not selling most of the models anymore also doesn't help SHA.

[chord]

Honestly...I think High Elves will be removed (or just made non-playable for competitive matches) .  Which is too bad they could have done something awesome with such a large range of figures. 

[Nick in York]

I suspect that we're going to get a new version of High Elves which is likely to be pretty different to how they were ("Light Aelves" if you like).

And I wonder if, at some point, there's going to be a "Free Peoples/Cities" battletome which will include many of the smaller aelf factions, dispossessed, free guild etc. This just seems to fit the current narrative.

[Azamar]

Swift hawk agents, Phoenix temple and Eldritch Council all feel like they’re not going anywhere. Phoenix temple are a strong feature in the free cities lore, and could easily be fleshed out to a larger faction. 

As for power creep- the loremaster still is a good choice albeit a bit expensive. And Phoenix guard are still excellent (not to mention the frostheart). Certainly people at my local club still seem quite scared of them, even with some of the new toys around. 

[Warboss Gorbolg]

Phoenix Temple is the only faction that I'm guessing gets expanded. Highly fantastical with new kits. All the more mundane factions I expect will only get Firestorm type treatment. I could see Draconis maybe expanded as well, although anything with horses I feel is a bit out of place in AOS.

[adreal]

The core high elf infantry line (spearmen, archers, bolt throwers, silver helms) I doubt will ever get expanded, which is weird as they are all pretty solid plastic kits (archer heads not withstanding)

They could have rolled them into swifthawk agents or eldritch council as guard type models, doubled down with spite of dawn. Silver helms could have been made to fit into Phoenix temple 'easy' enough.

 

It's a shame, but maybe the 'light aelves' will have standard spearmen and archers along with angel stuff 

[MacDuff]

I bet they will regather the current Aelf factions at some point, perhaps around new angelic models. This is slowly happening (or has happened) with DoK, Beastmen, and probably the green-skinned folks. Free People, Ogors, and Duardin could also see some consolidation. The fact the Aelves are remaining on the website suggests they're just circling the runway until they land.

Maybe we should look at army collection differently. GW started AOS with a "get whatever you like" approach, and even threw out points to encourage hodge-podge collecting. It was ongoing uber-narratives that started to encourage 'filling out' a collection into a cohesive force. The GHBs made collections competitive, and new boxed sets continue to define new shapes for armies - always tied to the evolving narrative. The AOS story is the thing that drives how new army collections will roll out, and some forces will unfortunately  end up at the end of the queue.

[froo]

4 hours ago, Warboss Gorbolg said:

I could see Draconis maybe expanded as well, although anything with horses I feel is a bit out of place in AOS.

I'm not a big fan of the elves, but I'd like to see Draconis expanded to be a bit like Beastclaw Raiders. I think that might be a type of army that would appeal to people

You would have larger models riding around on Dragons, smaller ones on larger cavalry (Drakes?). Basically discontinue the horse cavalry and have everything else dragon based.

[Charlo]

At this point I think if its plastic, it's probably not going anywhere soon - the kits are still great (especially the Phoenix like people have said) and some armies are definitely still using older sculpts.

This is pretty much everything except for the Swordmasters.

[dmorley21]

I'm guessing most of their plastics get grouped into an "Aelves" battletome similar to what they're doing for Beasts of Chaos due to how they were grouped in the preview for Age of Sigmar 2.0 on Warhammer Community.

If one faction gets expanded, I'd guess it would be Phoenix Temple due to the popularity of the Phoenix model.

[Morglum StormBasha]

Phoenix temple and Phoenicium the city would seem to be the easiest line to expand if we were to get a dok like book.

i would love the ur Phoenix to be a reincarnated asuryan 

swifthawk ... i think a really good eagle elves army could be created but I think it would need a bit of a rename and theme.

[Thiagoma]

I fear for it.  Idoneth and DoK do not feel "elvish", nor i belive this "angelic aelves" will be.

I dont think this collections will fit with any of the new ones.

It is a shame. Order Draconis is my favorite army and the article "Dragons of the Realms" pissed me off with not even mentioning this faction.

[NurglesFirstChosen]

Tbh I feel that unless gw can claim IP on a faction it’s not gonna be updated. Unfortunately this means that factions like high elves - that are basically pulled out of a Tolkien novel - won’t be. I know that means that lots of old world factions won’t be revisited which sucks for a lot of people. But look on the bright side, I’m damn sure that when tyrion n teclis aelves hit the scene they’re gonna more than make up for it. 

 

[Morglum StormBasha]

I never get this high elves pulled out of a Tolkien novel thing....

Show me elves riding dragons in Tolkien? Doesn’t happen as dragons are creatures of morgoth and evil. Caledonia and order draconis are cribbed from moorcocks melnibonean elves. 

Where is the concept of the fires of asuryan and reincarnation Phoenix in Tolkien? I don’t think it’s there as they are cribbed from Eastern influences and not Tolkien’s Christian one.

wood elvea are the closest to Tolkien elves as they had treemen and eagles and wanderers and sylvaneth have both been kept and transformed, high elves which are more distant in conception still can easily find a place in aos in new forms. 

 

[Overread]

Early Warhammer was very much influenced by Tolkien's work as was early DnD. Basically this whole vast era of fantasy drew a lot of inspiration from Lord of the Rings and Middle Earth - which in turn took its inspiration from a lot of the Norse Mythologies (which fit rather well since GW is based in the UK and thus those Celtic/Norse mythos are related to this region in some form or another). 

Of course GW put their own stamp on it; they gave dragons to good factions and had people riding dragons (with freakishly tall backed armchairs!) They created Chaos and added Demons and they arose the mighty Black Plague of Rats from the Underhive and put weapons in their little claws and sent them forth to spread more plagues upon the world. 

Also a lot of the artwork around then had a very similar style and feel to it that the Tolkien Era stuff did. You can even see this legacy today - go play Warhammer TW and you can hear the very Tolkien (films) inspired music in their choice of what to sound it with (still think they should have put some power metal in there!) 

[NurglesFirstChosen]

12 minutes ago, Morglum StormBasha said:

I never get this high elves pulled out of a Tolkien novel thing....

Show me elves riding dragons in Tolkien? Doesn’t happen as dragons are creatures of morgoth and evil. Caledonia and order draconis are cribbed from moorcocks melnibonean elves. 

Where is the concept of the fires of asuryan and reincarnation Phoenix in Tolkien? I don’t think it’s there as they are cribbed from Eastern influences and not Tolkien’s Christian one.

wood elvea are the closest to Tolkien elves as they had treemen and eagles and wanderers and sylvaneth have both been kept and transformed, high elves which are more distant in conception still can easily find a place in aos in new forms. 

 

I appreciate what you’re saying, details and lore are very different. I still feel that much of the visualisation of high aelves is very similar to the descriptions in the Tolkien books.

This is my opinion however and I understand that yours is obviously different. 

[Overread]

I think one thing that has slowly happened over the years is that elves have become less alien and more humanized in a lot of fantasy. Early on they were always mysterious and magical and you never quite knew what to expect - today they are rather commonplace. furthermore because they are more well developed and often thrust into the forefront of many stories and factions; they have lost some of the mystery that sparks the imagination. Daughters of Khaine is a great example - they don't "feel elvish" is a very good way to put it. 

Yes their direct lore is still very early and their identity as a faction is very clear and they are very sneaky with all their shadow;s but they are closer to a vampire coven than an elvish blood worshipping coven. I think part of it is how dominant Morathi is for them - dominating both in the lore itself and in the stories that surround them - she's acting like the Grand Vampire ruling her brood of blood drinking crazies. I think Daughters would benefit greatly from her being taken down a few notches in the story and getting more identity for themselves nd more chance to build up their own mysterious past and history and culture beyond the shadowy aelves that slice and dice deamons!

[Tiger]

44 minutes ago, Morglum StormBasha said:

Where is the concept of the fires of asuryan and reincarnation Phoenix in Tolkien? I don’t think it’s there as they are cribbed from Eastern influences and not Tolkien’s Christian one.

Warhammer creators used all kinds of myths.

27 minutes ago, Overread said:

I think one thing that has slowly happened over the years is that elves have become less alien and more humanized in a lot of fantasy.

Yeah, I feel they've lost the "fae" aspect somewhere along the way. I'm not certain if I want the alien mindset, it's hard to write it off just right. I rather enjoy the mindset that is logical from another point of view or is simply in its way limited.

[Brother Dimetrius]

I was rather conflicted but I've given up hope. Starting new army for AoS (Nighthaunt), while my High Elves will stay WHFB 8th.

[Bohemond]

3 hours ago, Overread said:

 

Early Warhammer was very much influenced by Tolkien's work as was early DnD. Basically this whole vast era of fantasy drew a lot of inspiration from Lord of the Rings and Middle Earth - which in turn took its inspiration from a lot of the Norse Mythologies (which fit rather well since GW is based in the UK and thus those Celtic/Norse mythos are related to this region in some form or another). 

Of course GW put their own stamp on it; they gave dragons to good factions and had people riding dragons (with freakishly tall backed armchairs!) They created Chaos and added Demons and they arose the mighty Black Plague of Rats from the Underhive and put weapons in their little claws and sent them forth to spread more plagues upon the world

 

I have to side with Morglum StormBasha on this one. Yes, GW has taken influences from a lot of places over the years. But it’s clear that Moorcock’s writing left a solid fingerprint on High/Dark elves, and perhaps even more on Chaos. 

But back on original topic: I am not very optimistic about High elves. I think they are too «generic» for GW to do anything about them. If they can’t trademark it, then nothing new will happen to them. And that’s a shame, the models are great and would sell better if they were supported in the game. 

[Overread]

Dark elves are just as generic and wood elves possibly the second most generic type of elf. 

I think that high elves still have a place with GW and I can't see them dropping them; there are a lot more areas where they could lose factions without losing a large portion of players. Lets not forget TK being dropped was basically an enigma that happened under old management with different short and long term priorities and goals. GW would be fools to drop HE totally at this point as they were a big fantasy faction and feature strongly not only then but also in secondary media like the Warhammer TW game (like it or not that is a big marketing consideration for them). 

 

I'd wager that we will see HE worked on. Perhaps consolidating some elements (eg dragons and phoenix) merging them into the new angelic elves; could even be that GW decide to have some official small mercenary forces - armies that are always going to be only a couple of models big but are designed to be allied forces for others or to form allied groups 

[Bohemond]

7 hours ago, Overread said:

Dark elves are just as generic and wood elves possibly the second most generic type of elf. 

 

When talking about GW’s early influences, then frankly, that’s an anachronism. Nothing has always been generic. 

I’ll pass on the temptation to explain indepth, but remember that GW published the Stormbringer rpg back in the day, and yes, even made miniatures based on Moorcock’s world.

I am such a nerd, I will stop now.