Jump to content

Wrath and Rapture


Recommended Posts

The models didn't really change. There has been udders/****** on models for years. 

I am really generally curious. I cannot see the issue with udders or ****** on a miniature. Did you also have the same feeling when any shirtless male models were released? How does your daughter feel about the miniatures? Does she feel differently regarding these compared to the last models?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 342
  • Created
  • Last Reply
6 hours ago, Ryan Taylor said:

The models didn't really change. There has been udders/****** on models for years. 

I am really generally curious. I cannot see the issue with udders or ****** on a miniature. Did you also have the same feeling when any shirtless male models were released? How does your daughter feel about the miniatures? Does she feel differently regarding these compared to the last models?

 

Some people  have a weak resolve and get offended at the slightest breeze.  It's a Slaanesh thread about Slaanesh models.  Don't try and make Slaanesh something that it's not.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Centurio said:

I'm personally glad that GW didn't give in to the censorious elements who pretend to be offended for the sake of attention.  Oh.  As someone who has a daughter.

Yeah man, how dare people assume that Slaaneshi ****** are only for females.  Any gender can have them, as if having a female child has any bearing on it.  Muh feminism.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's really telling how one person sharing their personal opinion that they wish Slaanesh models looked a bit different brings out the supposedly anti-censorship folks to shout them down, be insulting and take an opportunity to show off their anti-PC credentials 🙄

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For me, it's more about using your daughter as moral high-ground.

Kids are way smarter (and less feeble) than people give them credit for and don't need to be sheltered from everything (and certainly not from certain body parts).

If you have the feeling that b***s and belts are not appropriate (and that's a decision you are free to make!), why bother with AoS, 40k or WHFB to begin with?  There are way worse things lurking within the grimdark...

Personally, I have no opinion concerning the aesthetics, Slaanesh is my least favorite deity but I don't think everything has to be "clean", at least not without plausible cause and definitely not when it comes to artistic freedom.

Other than that, I agree with @Kirjava13, there is no point in discussing this (opinion) further.

Concerning the topic and W&R, I'm a bit sad that Khorne got the finger once again. :( 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well this devolved fast, and I feel responsible... When I posted my response to  chord, I tried to phrase my own perspective without disrespect to his/hers. If it came off sounding any other way, I apologize.

My point of view comes from simply not wanting my daughter to feel she aught to be ashamed of her own anatomy which, despite best intentions, I feel can be an unintended possible outcome of actions and statements meant to protect. That's all... I certainly did not intend to trigger any disparaging commentary from other members. It's honestly disappointing. 🙁

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

+++MOD HAT+++

Slippery slope time people.  Please be civil to each other and if you wish to rant please take it elsewhere.

The new Slaaneshii range was always going to cause some controversy.  GW have had to stay true to the original concept of Slaanesh whilst also respecting current real-life values on things such as equality and body image.  There has been a marked reduction in gender stereotyping found in miniatures recently without losing the character.

However let's not lose sight of the fact that they're plastic miniatures for a game (technically two games).  If you feel GW has crossed "the line" then your best course of action is to vote with your feet and not purchase those miniatures, possibly backed up with an e-mail to GW.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/20/2018 at 5:38 AM, Killax said:

I'm sad that Khorne objectively got to be a worse army with Wrath and Rapture's release.

Ah well, I wasn't in to thick with the hobby these days anyway.

Objectively worse? No. Bloodletters got worse, bloodcrushers got turned up to 8 (heh, because khorne). Seriously, 2+ to cause mortal wounds on the charge and now the amount of MW they put out isn't dependent on the size of the crushers but what they are charging into instead is massive. Plus they got a points reduction. MSU blood thunder stampede just got made into a thing with this. Only thing holding them back now is the lack of a save against spells like the skullcrushers get. 

 

And let's be honest, stacking killing frenzy on the bloodletter bomb was never fun. It's about as enjoyable as a brick of witch aelves. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Gotrek said:

Objectively worse? No. Bloodletters got worse, bloodcrushers got turned up to 8 (heh, because khorne). Seriously, 2+ to cause mortal wounds on the charge and now the amount of MW they put out isn't dependent on the size of the crushers but what they are charging into instead is massive. Plus they got a points reduction. MSU blood thunder stampede just got made into a thing with this. Only thing holding them back now is the lack of a save against spells like the skullcrushers get. 

Something getting better doesn't automatically mean that it will perform.

I highly doubt that this list will change the current meta, which I consider rather unfriendly for MSU.

But who knows, an upset through the GHB2019 or a battletome can change a lot next year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Xasz said:

Something getting better doesn't automatically mean that it will perform.

I highly doubt that this list will change the current meta, which I consider rather unfriendly for MSU.

But who knows, an upset through the GHB2019 or a battletome can change a lot next year.

What we lost was reliable mortal wound generation from the letters. But we gained reliable mortal wound generation on the crushers. Still triggering on a 2+ (since hit rolls of 1 always fail) and the crushers are completely autonomous. They don't need to be near a bloodsecrator and a half dozen slaughterpriests to do the mortal wounds unlike the letters. 

Look at it like this, you got what maybe 10 bloodletters able to swing in combat? Fully buffed that's 21 attacks because of the champ, so that's roughly 18 mortal wounds. That's a lot, but it also cost you 320 for the letters, 120 for the secrator, 300 for the 3 priests for a total of 740 points. Now, to get those same 18 mortal wounds on a unit with bloodcrushers you  need 5 packs of crushers charging into it. Which is 700 points. What this does is it makes demons playable without the need for mortal support pieces. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

42 minutes ago, Gotrek said:

What we lost was reliable mortal wound generation from the letters. But we gained reliable mortal wound generation on the crushers. Still triggering on a 2+ (since hit rolls of 1 always fail) and the crushers are completely autonomous. They don't need to be near a bloodsecrator and a half dozen slaughterpriests to do the mortal wounds unlike the letters. 

Look at it like this, you got what maybe 10 bloodletters able to swing in combat? Fully buffed that's 21 attacks because of the champ, so that's roughly 18 mortal wounds. That's a lot, but it also cost you 320 for the letters, 120 for the secrator, 300 for the 3 priests for a total of 740 points. Now, to get those same 18 mortal wounds on a unit with bloodcrushers you  need 5 packs of crushers charging into it. Which is 700 points. What this does is it makes demons playable without the need for mortal support pieces. 

Your maths is reasonable but at the same time:

  • bloodcrushers aren’t guaranteed a charge
  • good luck getting 5 units of blood crushers into 1 unit.

On the other hand, you CAN tag multiple units with one charge, so there is the potential for 1 unit of crushers to hit 2-3 units with one charge.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Gotrek said:

Objectively worse? No. Bloodletters got worse, bloodcrushers got turned up to 8 (heh, because khorne). Seriously, 2+ to cause mortal wounds on the charge and now the amount of MW they put out isn't dependent on the size of the crushers but what they are charging into instead is massive. Plus they got a points reduction. MSU blood thunder stampede just got made into a thing with this. Only thing holding them back now is the lack of a save against spells like the skullcrushers get. 

 

And let's be honest, stacking killing frenzy on the bloodletter bomb was never fun. It's about as enjoyable as a brick of witch aelves. 

I didn’t notice the new wording around which unit needs to be 5 or more. It definitely reads as the enemy unit size which determines the number of mortal wounds. 

I wonder if this is an intentional change or a mistake by gw. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, Retro said:

I didn’t notice the new wording around which unit needs to be 5 or more. It definitely reads as the enemy unit size which determines the number of mortal wounds. 

I wonder if this is an intentional change or a mistake by gw. 

Lol well we have like 6 months to abuse it as written before it gets nerfed

Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, Retro said:

Your maths is reasonable but at the same time:

  • bloodcrushers aren’t guaranteed a charge
  • good luck getting 5 units of blood crushers into 1 unit.

On the other hand, you CAN tag multiple units with one charge, so there is the potential for 1 unit of crushers to hit 2-3 units with one charge.

The charge thing is where the blood thunder stampede comes into play. 180 points ain't cheap but it is +3 to charge. Also you can double fist units (unit 1 tags a unit, unit 2 charges it deals it mortals, then retreats and let's unit 3 charge in to deal its mortals, rinse and repeat). 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Damage is not everything.

I do not see this list being able to win against DoK, LoN or Marauder spam. (or anyone that plays the scenario)

Concerning the damage, the "it" refers to "that enemy unit" from the beginning of the sentence.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

38 minutes ago, Xasz said:

Damage is not everything.

I do not see this list being able to win against DoK, LoN or Marauder spam. (or anyone that plays the scenario)

Concerning the damage, the "it" refers to "that enemy unit" from the beginning of the sentence.

Spoiler alert, we weren't beating LoN and DoK anyway so we still aren't any worse off.  That said new bloodcrushers might actually be better off against DoK than old letters based purely on footprint from a defensive point of view. Witches can't get all their attacks in when the crushers have a fraction of the footprint that the letter bomb did. And on the offense front, it's easier to slide a unit of 3 crushers around a brick of witches to get to the hag than it is to get the bomb past the witches to the hag. Once the hag is gone the witches aren't a threat anymore. 

 

So the letter bomb getting defused isn't the end of khorne as we know it. It's not going to drop our rankings to KO levels. We are still competitive with most of the field (aside from LoN and DoK we are within 10% win rate of everyone else)

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Picked up my box a few hours ago, got lunch, came home and put Warhammer Weekly on for background noise before getting stuck in.

The Fiend kit is brutal... For comparison; I didn't really find the Exalted Chariot in the SC! box too challenging, but these things... It's taken me an hour to assemble one. 😅 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, Gotrek said:

Objectively worse? No. Bloodletters got worse, bloodcrushers got turned up to 8 (heh, because khorne). Seriously, 2+ to cause mortal wounds on the charge and now the amount of MW they put out isn't dependent on the size of the crushers but what they are charging into instead is massive. Plus they got a points reduction. MSU blood thunder stampede just got made into a thing with this. Only thing holding them back now is the lack of a save against spells like the skullcrushers get. 

 

And let's be honest, stacking killing frenzy on the bloodletter bomb was never fun. It's about as enjoyable as a brick of witch aelves. 

Absolutely that they got worse. Bloodcrushers got a 2+ impact hit, that only matters when they get impact hits. Feel free to fiddle with Bloodthunder Stampede, 
Enjoy the single attack with the Bloodletters on top. 

Stacking Frenzy with Bloodletters was the only relevant boost the army had left. With Bloodletter flying bombs removed, stacking Bloodsecrators removed and now acces to reliable Mortal Wound output removed there is really little to nothing to say for it all.

Then Karanak as a 5 wound character bumped to 160 points, free theoretical Fleshhounds are fun but getting there with a 5 wound character is rather hard to do.
What's never fun is that Games Workshop keeps up the inconsistent design for as long as Age of Sigmar has been around.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...