Wrath and Rapture

[Zembril]

Got a bit of a conundrum going here with how to continue with the Slaanesh army in my box set. I am getting into Age of Sigmar after putting it off for long enough but with this box set it inspired me to build a Slaanesh army. What I want to know is should I go and add some Slaaneshi Slaves to Darkness or should I play it safe and go for the Demons? Either way I would start with the £50 Start Collecting box set to give my army the starting boost it needs.

[Killax]

On 12/27/2018 at 11:42 PM, Gotrek said:

When the answer to nearly every question is "throw 30 blood letters with killing frenzy at it", it's a crutch. And with the depth of our roster, it's an unnecessary one.  You want to do the killing frenzy mortal wound spam still? Great, use skullreapers. Not only is their warscroll still a 6+ hit roll for mortals but it's also in addition to normal damage instead of a replacement for it. You get a smaller footprint, more wounds per point, a better save, and more attacks per model. From my point of view this could actually help bloodletters because with all the negatives to hit floating around their mortal wounds proc can't be pushed off the table. 

Furthermore, define "competitive top".  I just checked the stats and if you exclude the outliers (DoK, order draconis, and Phoenix temple) we are within 10% win rate of every other army. We place 7th in top 10 finishes, ahead of newer armies like nighthaunt, tzeentch, beasts of chaos and KO. We are tied for 5th in top 3 finishes with deepkin and ahead of everyone but legions, DoK, SCE, and sylvaneth. Not only that but the number 3 spot (SCE) only have 2 more top 3 finishes than we do. So please tell me how are we not competitive? Yeah, legions and daughters are crushing the scene but aside from those two the rankings are pretty tight.

 

...what? Initially SCE were Infantry with flyer support, then they went monstrous cavalry with the dracothian guard, then they went fast cavalry with the palladors, then they went magic crazy with the sacrosanct. Seriously, what?

They did. Twice. Once in the BoK book and again in the errata because their language wasn't right enough to keep people from torturing the words into letting it stack. If you're talking about the initial release, pre-GHB then that's because the design for the game wasn't geared with an eye towards even pretending balance was a thing (multiple nagash's were a thing in those days)

The awnser to nearly every question for many armies leads to certain units being really good. As mentioned before, your analysis about Bloodletters is incomplete as they would still die like flies. If Skullreapers are the next go to it only shows how moot this 'nerf' is. Fact remains Bloodletters got objectively worse and their cost remained the same. Its a prime example of lazy redesign.

Competitive top is not about excluding outliers. That makes no sence either because top is a small plateau to be on. We arn't competitive because your example wants to actively exclude the actual competitive top.

SCE have all these wonderful options you mentioned, Khorne doesn't have flyer support, relevant monsterous cavalry, or can go magic crazy. What you seem to fail to understand is how niche Khorne actually is as a swarm infantry army. That used to have reliable Mortal Wounds to their advantage as a reason to be picked over the others.

Laslty no, they didn't, I have the several errata examples for you. When the BoK book was released the actual current errata stated you could stack it. Only with GH2017 did this change. 

Your excuses for this all falls apart pretty easily. I do not exclude examples of what is actually going on.

 

[Killax]

33 minutes ago, Zembril said:

Got a bit of a conundrum going here with how to continue with the Slaanesh army in my box set. I am getting into Age of Sigmar after putting it off for long enough but with this box set it inspired me to build a Slaanesh army. What I want to know is should I go and add some Slaaneshi Slaves to Darkness or should I play it safe and go for the Demons? Either way I would start with the £50 Start Collecting box set to give my army the starting boost it needs.

Start safe and go with the Daemons! However as is key with all Gods armies I do think ideally you'd slow-grow it. A new Keeper of Secrets is bound to come out, bound to look awesome and be a key piece. 

[Retro]

38 minutes ago, Killax said:

Laslty no, they didn't, I have the several errata examples for you. When the BoK book was released the actual current errata stated you could stack it. Only with GH2017 did this change. 

The original intention was definitely to stack, but then they reworded it to not stack and removed the FAQ and people still argued about the wording. Then they reworded it again to completely remove all doubt

[Enoby]

1 hour ago, Zembril said:

Got a bit of a conundrum going here with how to continue with the Slaanesh army in my box set. I am getting into Age of Sigmar after putting it off for long enough but with this box set it inspired me to build a Slaanesh army. What I want to know is should I go and add some Slaaneshi Slaves to Darkness or should I play it safe and go for the Demons? Either way I would start with the £50 Start Collecting box set to give my army the starting boost it needs.

I would definitely suggest daemons there's a Slaanesh army chat on these forums that you may find useful. If you could find a person to split W&R with, I would suggest that over a SC - slightly cheaper and I think the fiends and herald are better than the chariot (though the chariot is still good). 

[Killax]

35 minutes ago, Retro said:

The original intention was definitely to stack, but then they reworded it to not stack and removed the FAQ and people still argued about the wording. Then they reworded it again to completely remove all doubt

Exact, meanwhile Khorne had  2 printed books and 2 errata's who actually confirmed it stacked aswell.  Then after stacking removed costs where amped to 140. Totally okay but if they would change it to 180/200 next up I ensure you all the reasons to play Khorne will then be removed.
Likewise first Crown seemed to trigger on 6's, then on 6+ and now on 6's again. It's this inconsistancy amongst other changes that I personally don't like. Because the only consistent thing GW does show is newer is better, yeah Khorne was part of that trend aswell.

While I don't mind this 'new is better' trend, a lot of the 'used to be very strong' armies have been nerfed while the new content has been spiced up to match that. This causes armies to be part of the competitive top and get tossed out after a year orso. The latter is a pitty as it means buying the newest army is rewarded and in a way a new cashgame is created that was the litteral downfall of WFB.

The reason this frusterates me is that with 40K the design team shows how to try and put armies closely balanced to each other. I can even recall a WC article that confirmed big changes like this would also be applied for the better in AoS. Thus far this hasn't been showed actually... I see Slaanesh becomming directly better as it is new and Khorne becomming directly worse.

For sure Bloodcrushers have been amped to functional shock troop. Yet it  shows that GW is willing to make 2+ Mortal wounds but Bloodletters shouldn't have this... Though should stay the same in cost... It feels extremely counter productive in terms of design... Sure I can run Skullreapers, Bloodhunt with Fleshhounds and Bloodcrushers instead, so... What was the point of the change again? To sell me more Bloodcrushers and Skullreapers?

[Zembril]

Thanks for the replies Killax and Enoby as it is much appreciated. Looks like I'll grab myself some more Slaaneshi demons then . Also thanks Enoby for letting me know about the Slaanesh army chat as for some reason I overlooked that.

[Carnith]

22 hours ago, Zembril said:

Thanks for the replies Killax and Enoby as it is much appreciated. Looks like I'll grab myself some more Slaaneshi demons then . Also thanks Enoby for letting me know about the Slaanesh army chat as for some reason I overlooked that.

The Slaanesh chat isn't the most active, as slaanesh is not the most popular, but everyone in that board has a passion to see the best of Slaanesh and what makes the god play best. Feel free to post pictures, talk strategy, ask lore questions about slaanesh, and what kind of StD units could work for Slaanesh.

[Kaleb Daark]

On 12/29/2018 at 2:47 PM, Killax said:

Start safe and go with the Daemons! However as is key with all Gods armies I do think ideally you'd slow-grow it. A new Keeper of Secrets is bound to come out, bound to look awesome and be a key piece. 

Oh she/he/it's on the way alright.  My money is it's going to explode onto the scene in the next round of the Vigilus campaign

[Enoby]

4 hours ago, Kaleb Daark said:

Oh she/he/it's on the way alright.  My money is it's going to explode onto the scene in the next round of the Vigilus campaign

I wonder if a Slaanesh campaign will be out next year, after soul wars. Seems strange to jump into another huge narrative point when the current one isn't cleaned up. 

[Yokai]

4 hours ago, Kaleb Daark said:

Oh she/he/it's on the way alright.  My money is it's going to explode onto the scene in the next round of the Vigilus campaign

Nah, I think that part of the play is reserved for Abaddon and his merry Black Legion men.

[Kaleb Daark]

6 hours ago, Yokai said:

Nah, I think that part of the play is reserved for Abaddon and his merry Black Legion men.

Ohhh I’d forgotten about that morsel..

[Kaleb Daark]

6 hours ago, Enoby said:

I wonder if a Slaanesh campaign will be out next year, after soul wars. Seems strange to jump into another huge narrative point when the current one isn't cleaned up. 

I think the keeper may come out before the dark prince is unchained as the search for him gathers pace, with his freedom being as you say a real big narrative to fill our eyeballs with

[Overread]

Slaanesh doesn't have to escape, or do anything for a Battletome to be released. In fact Codex/Battletomes that tie into major events in the lore are pretty rare especially these days with GW cranking out loads of them at a fast pace. 

Lore wise we already have the Shadow Realm being invaded as they can sense that weak point that Morathi has created. GW has also not yet really fleshed out the other Aelves born of Slaanesh's belly nor established if all crafted monsters from his belly can breed without him - ergo if he were to escape.

 

I forsee now that he'll remain entrapped for a good while yet. However nothing stops GW dropping a nice shiny Battletome and loads of new models to let players recreate those brutal battles against the Aelven forces of the Shadow Realm and other lands as those insane woreshippers quest endlessly to find their dark God of Pleasure

[NurglesFirstChosen]

9 hours ago, Overread said:

Slaanesh doesn't have to escape, or do anything for a Battletome to be released. In fact Codex/Battletomes that tie into major events in the lore are pretty rare especially these days with GW cranking out loads of them at a fast pace. 

Lore wise we already have the Shadow Realm being invaded as they can sense that weak point that Morathi has created. GW has also not yet really fleshed out the other Aelves born of Slaanesh's belly nor established if all crafted monsters from his belly can breed without him - ergo if he were to escape.

 

I forsee now that he'll remain entrapped for a good while yet. However nothing stops GW dropping a nice shiny Battletome and loads of new models to let players recreate those brutal battles against the Aelven forces of the Shadow Realm and other lands as those insane woreshippers quest endlessly to find their dark God of Pleasure

Exactly, I agree completely.

Who knows, the 3 sub factions of pretenders, seekers and invades might completely change as the gods location becomes more common knowledge. 

It’s unclear what impact the necroquake had. Slaanesh might even be able to communicate with his/hers followers now. 

[Mosquito onthe TenthFloor]

Anyone played the scenarios in the books in the box? Are there any? Is there a mini campaign? Might buy the books - don’t really need the models!

[Enoby]

4 hours ago, Mosquito onthe TenthFloor said:

Anyone played the scenarios in the books in the box? Are there any? Is there a mini campaign? Might buy the books - don’t really need the models!

I've not played them, but there is a narrative campaign in the box looks like fun, especially for newer players will small forces  

[Mosquito onthe TenthFloor]

2 minutes ago, Enoby said:

I've not played them, but there is a narrative campaign in the box looks like fun, especially for newer players will small forces  

There is, eh? That’ll be a sale off eBay then. Hopefully we’ll see a nurgle/Tzeentch version next year - I half think they used the name to refresh  the copyright. Utterly unfounded accusation that.

May be a good hook for getting my people into AOS