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What is "narrative gaming"


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38 minutes ago, Ollie Grimwood said:

Narrative list = weak list is a fallacy.

But equally a Good list doesn't equal a non-narrative list either. 

If its just putting a story to a list then the list doesn't matter, you can write a story to ANY army list no matter how contrived, insane or strict battle winning it is. In fact I'd wager if a player builds a good list and then plays and modifies that list based on its performance in games then that process in itself can half write the narrative for the army. Detailing its wins and losses and how the general focuses on hiring more of those who win them battles and losing those that clearly under-perform. 

 

 

The only way you can change this is to change how the game itself is played. To change the winning goals, to adapt the map and mission or to curtail choices for the player from that pool of models they have. Otherwise you're just sort of expecting people to randomly pick models just because of no real fixed reasoning that you can explain.

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22 minutes ago, Overread said:

But equally a Good list doesn't equal a non-narrative list either. 

If its just putting a story to a list then the list doesn't matter, you can write a story to ANY army list no matter how contrived, insane or strict battle winning it is. In fact I'd wager if a player builds a good list and then plays and modifies that list based on its performance in games then that process in itself can half write the narrative for the army. Detailing its wins and losses and how the general focuses on hiring more of those who win them battles and losing those that clearly under-perform. 

 

 

The only way you can change this is to change how the game itself is played. To change the winning goals, to adapt the map and mission or to curtail choices for the player from that pool of models they have. Otherwise you're just sort of expecting people to randomly pick models just because of no real fixed reasoning that you can explain.

Yes the list doesn’t matter, the story does and that story should very much justify your army selection and in game decision making 

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On 9/12/2018 at 9:14 AM, Infeston said:

Narrative gaming is very much a cooperative experience. You can bring the list you want, but your first thought for narrative gaming should always be "How do I make this game enjoyable and fun for my opponent". 

I think this might describe the mentality of narrative gaming the best. I think the difference between the mindset of a competitive player and a narrative player can be summarized like this:

Competitive: "How do I beat my opponent in the best way possible with minimal losses. The opponent player has to be defeated and my ultimate goal is to win"

Narrative: "How do I make this match or game the most enjoyable for my opponent and me. What interesting things could I do so that my opponent enjoys the match the most. My opponent is not my enemy, but instead he is my partner".

 

As I said before, if your mindset is already "I have to bring the best list to win this event" then you might have the wrong mindset for a narrative event. You can still bring your fully optimised list to an event if it is also fluffy or has fun mechanics. But I think you have to reflect about your intentions behind choosing this list. Do you bring this list for the sole purpose of beating your opponents? Or do you choose this list, because you think it will provide an interesting and fun experience for your opponent and because your opponent will have fun playing against you?

 

As many have said before, it has to do a lot with your own mindset. Especially if you are going to a narrative event with an extremely competitive mindset it could be that you will ruin everyone's experience you play against. 

Buddy I hear your point but I think the dichotomy you are suggesting is incorrect.

Irrespective of narrative vs open vs competitive this is a game, and the game requires a largely unspoken social contract between the participants.  "We are here to both have fun."  

What is 'fun' depends on the participants and their expectations which may vary individually and per setting (tournament vs basement, garage gamer vs top of the GT player.) But we do this for fun and for fun on both sides, regardless of narrative vs competitive gaming.      In a GT I might expect  'no holds barred' list design from my opponents but I still expect both of us to have fun playing.  

Some narrative settings expect softer lists but there is  no requirement for that.  The requirement is the armies fit the expectations of that organizer and other participants.  That may include high powered lists.  Heck a narrative event may require a player to bring a 'more broken' list then what is possible under matched play.   A list of all behemoths or all characters armed with artefacts (magic items)  have been part of the narrative scenarios published by GW in past editions of WFB (and I think would make a cool Narrative si.e. 10 Bloodthirsters vs some equivalent points of  'normal' armies with a summoning circle in the middle. ) 

Shared expectations is the key issue here in any setting.  The organizer of a narrative event (or a competitive event) sets the expectations.  Most of the time in the AoS era competitive play has just been 'take what you like' but you could certainly run a competitive event and have the TO ask people 'to take it down a notch' that would work better in a close nit group of friends.  Narrative Event Organizer could do the same if they want to.   

For the We Are the Neon events I've run and the NOVA Narrative event I've participated in there has been no expectation described on power levels. People took what they felt like.  But equally a narrative organizer could choose to limit things, or just use prescribed lists - heres what I want you to take to fulfill my scenario.  

The OP's friend has some expectations for what they want a narrative event to be.  Maybe they are just saying 'lets turn down the power levels when we play'  (which isn't really a question about narrative play in my opinion) maybe they are saying 'lets do more story connected games,' maybe they are saying 'the We Are the Neon events look awesome lets play one of those' or 'lets do something more creative then matched play'  maybe they are saying 'your list isn't fun to play against as I always lose.'    What the friend is asking for isn't entirely clear - and what their expectations of a Narrative event isn't either.

Deadscribe seems most angsty about the level of power in a narrative event,  and really the power level of the lists isn't a  defining feature of Narrative events.   

 

This concept:

"How do I make this match or game the most enjoyable for my opponent and me. What interesting things could I do so that my opponent enjoys the match the most. My opponent is not my enemy, but instead he is my partner"

Is just giving good game.  Sometimes it's worth taking a tactical disadvantage to give a good game, but bottom line your opponent in all 'games' is your partner in a mutual match.  Their enjoyment is part of the unspoken social contract that underpins gaming. 

 

 

 

 

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