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Terry Pike

Chaos Shooting units - Updated 12/10/16

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Loving this thorough guide, cheers Terry. 

Do you reckon that chaos' greatest strength under GH (outside of  a few factions such as bloodbound) currently is its ranged potential, mainly from skaven? 

Edited by FunkyPunk

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Sounds good. Also ancillary things like general availability, price, base size could be practical and of use to new Chaos generals.

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3 minutes ago, FunkyPunk said:

Loving this thorough guide, cheers Terry. 

Do you reckon that chaos' greatest strength under GH (outside of  a few factions such as bloodbound) currently is its ranged potential, mainly from skaven? 

Thanks. Chaos do have access to some great shooting, the majority of it is through Skaven and in general Skaven are my top pick for Chaos at the moment. They have access to everything and can compete in most phases of the game better than any other Chaos Alliance (Tzeentch still owns the 'magic' phase).

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4 hours ago, Terry Pike said:

Thanks. Chaos do have access to some great shooting, the majority of it is through Skaven and in general Skaven are my top pick for Chaos at the moment. They have access to everything and can compete in most phases of the game better than any other Chaos Alliance (Tzeentch still owns the 'magic' phase).

Do skaven have superior melee to say daemons or StD?

If not afraid of mixing is it generally better to.combine skaven shooting with other chaos?  

Or do skaven stand alone better?  That bravery worries me. 

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Skaven probably do have better melee than anything else Chaos other than Khorne and Warherd.

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21 minutes ago, Bronouns said:

Do skaven have superior melee to say daemons or StD?

If not afraid of mixing is it generally better to.combine skaven shooting with other chaos?  

Or do skaven stand alone better?  That bravery worries me. 

Both Stormfiends and Stormvermin offer amazing combat power. Stormfiends with any of the 3 combat options are powerful, especially when your list is being built to buff the to hit roll of Shock Gauntlets for example. Bravery doesn't have to be an issue, Inspiring Presence will stop any big pop tests and having big units gives you a Bravery buff anyway (a rule people always forget, +1 bravery per 10 models).

If you want the most balanced list available it will most likely have a large chunk of Skaven in it, possibly even half of your total points available.

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On Skullcannons, I'd like to make a quick point for them:

I used them at Blood in the Sun in my mono Khorne, and they worked out quite well for sniping out casters. By planting the blood secrator's banner and having wrathmongers within 3 inches, they get 3 attacks with their maw, which if it causes a wound, the cannon fires. I got an average of 3 additional cannon shots per game using that stack. Nothing ground breaking, but it did make them a bit scarier which helped pull some agro off my other units like my blood thirsters and wrathmongers.

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14 hours ago, Maddok said:

On Skullcannons, I'd like to make a quick point for them:

I used them at Blood in the Sun in my mono Khorne, and they worked out quite well for sniping out casters. By planting the blood secrator's banner and having wrathmongers within 3 inches, they get 3 attacks with their maw, which if it causes a wound, the cannon fires. I got an average of 3 additional cannon shots per game using that stack. Nothing ground breaking, but it did make them a bit scarier which helped pull some agro off my other units like my blood thirsters and wrathmongers.

I still think they can be useful in a mono khorne list as it will probably be your only shooting and as you did with the Maw attack on the cannon you can increase the chances of it getting a free shot by buffing the attack. If only you could buff the number of shots!

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Rat orgres are a pretty decent shooty unit, played with them recently and they can really soften up a unit with shooting before tearing them up, also quite hardy.

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This is an excellent post, thanks so much!

I have been dabbling with Skryre Formations and couldn't settle on a loadout for my Fiends, so WFT it is ;) 

I'm also glad to hear you rate the WLC highly!  

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Will you be doing similar things for battleline/heros/ generic troops ? i can help out if you plan to

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When should the best chaos shooting units be used?  Can they be splashed into other chaos melee/synergy armies to give a bit of a ranged punch?  
 

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It depends on what you need.  If you have lots of solid combat being able to hit units behind the front line can be useful to take out synergies or severly wound their ranged units.

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45 minutes ago, daedalus81 said:

It depends on what you need.  If you have lots of solid combat being able to hit units behind the front line can be useful to take out synergies or severly wound their ranged units.

Agreed. Think about the combat phases, there's more combat phase than shooting. If you can get more of your combat units into combat than those same points spent into shooting theyre worth more. 

If that makes sense, I've had a fair few drinks so maybe it doesn't. 

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Another drunken post!

 

As a Beastman  Brayherd player for 2 years, it's time to weigh in on my big bad shooting unit. Ungor raiders.

 

Run 30, get rerolls on 1 and 2 to hit, with either Gorthor the Beastlord, or a hero with Lord of war or whatever it is  that gets that +1 to hit  against order units. 30 shots with rerolls to hit, coming from the plus one to hit combined with the 30 man unit ability, pumps out on average for me 10 to 15 wounds in a shooting phase. With ungor raiders run and shoot ability, coupled with a soulgrinder that can also run and shoot, it makes a pretty scary shooting phase that can wreck any big bad unit you would rather not see coming to your line. Slap an inspiring presence on the ungor raiders too and you have a pretty solid tarpit there as well that can still pump out alot of ranged damage, and because they can run and shoot you will likely be able to get them out of a nasty situation and still remain effective. As soon as you lose your first model in the unit it gets some what neutered, but you can reliably take down a serious threat on your first turn, the soulgrinder makes for a pretty solid screen on top of that, which leaves your raider unit to wreck any infantry units from there on out.

 

The unit costs 240 points, and if you are brayherd allegiance they are battleline too, but personally I think the soulgrinder combo is the best way to run them, as there isn't a whole lot else within they brayherd allegiance that can deal high damage consistently without taking a boatload of units for the furious brayherd or wildstalker brayherd formations. 

 

I've had decent results using a bray shaman as my general within an ungor raider unit, giving them +1 to hit, +3 to movement (making them movement 9 with a run and shoot), and using an inspiring presence and mystic shield combo to turn them into a tarpit in later turns.

 

Only downside is painting 30 ungor raiders is a massive kick in the balls to your hobby time.

 

Oh and if you have at least 30 raiders, set into 3 units, with a unit of ungors, harpies, or chaos warhounds, you can play the ungor raider ambush formation for 100 points which enables you to ambush a target and then shoot it in your first movement phase. This can quite effectively mess up any wizards or artillery units you might be worried about.

 

Ungor raiders are badass.

 

 

 

 

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Seeming as there isn't much about cygors, I'll spew out a bunch of shite about them as well.

 

4+ to hit, rerolls to hit against wizards, with a -2 rend and d6 damage. And it can unbind 2 spells a turn, inflicting a mortal would on anything it unbinds a spell against. It can kill a wizard on turn 1 if needed, and is a serious threat against any big caster monster heroes. Again use a +1 to hit on it if you can via command traits on your first few turns, and you have a pretty solid character assassin. The real beauty of a cygor is it's 14 wounds, though it's quite lackluster in combat, it's a threat that anyone running a caster absolutely has to deal with, diverting attention from the rest of your units as they move into position. 

 

 

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Giving this thread a bump, as alot of people seem to be asking about chaos shooting lately, 

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Ace post Terry. Thanks for sharing the analysis, it must have taken you a while! 

It would be great to see your take on battleline units in the future. 

 

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I have updated the first post with even more shooting options!

I have also added my top picks for the current meta and tournament scene here in the UK, I'll give a summary of each as well.

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I'll try and get the last missing units and characters added in now. With a few more big events I can also update the hot picks section in the first post

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Terry, what do you think of Ungor Raiders? They have been mentioned by other, but would like to have your opinion on them.

They have an amazing range for first turn shooting so will definitely hit their targets. Unit of 30 without buffs, they are going to do 11 damage on average. or 7 damage after common 5+ save. If you get double turn, they are also quite devastating for 240 points.

Just saw this amazing thread after being resurrected by you. 

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Terry,

A lot of people are directing me to the chimera (I play basically mono khorne, considering getting sayl for teleport boom with a unit thats not stormfiends because I can't afford to buy 6 boxes for 6 warpfire projectors).

 

Any thoughts on that unit?

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