How to make a competitive list?

[Splint]

Hey all, so I’m trying to build a competitive death list, specifically LOS. With my limited experience with death I’ve come up with a couple of lists, I’d really appreciate some feed back, any changes to make, which list would be better, etc.

Though for the sake of discussion is also like to read the lists you have been most successful with, whether it being your local meta or bigger tournaments. Strategies and battle reports are always welcome

 

As for my lists; I am more partial to the first list, I feel it has better board presence (threats, not just chaff) and allows for some strategic flexibility, but have play tested lords of sacrament a little and the bonus to casting did go a long way.

so, with the wealth of experience here, what are your thoughts?

List one:

Allegiance: Legion of Sacrament

Leaders
Arkhan The Black Mortarch of Sacrament (320)
Necromancer (110)
Necromancer (110)
Prince Vhordrai (480)
Lady Olynder, Mortarch of Grief (240)

Battleline
5 x Dire Wolves (60)
5 x Dire Wolves (60)
40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)
- Spears.

Units
20 x Grimghast Reapers (280)

Endless Spells
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (40)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 122
 

List two:

Allegiance: Legion of Sacrament

Leaders
Arkhan The Black Mortarch of Sacrament (320)
Necromancer (110)
Necromancer (110)
Prince Vhordrai (480)

Battleline
15 x Dire Wolves (180)
10 x Dire Wolves (120)
40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)
- Ancient Blades

Behemoths
Mortis Engine (180)

Battalions
Lords of Sacrament (130)

Endless Spells
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (40)

Total: 1950 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 137
 

Cheers all, looking forward to reading your advice, lists and stories.

[petterl]

First of all; arkhan is a pretty good character but a lousy general. He is way to fragile and you will need him alive if you want to use endless legions. The lords of sacrament makes him a bit more tankier but its way to expensive when you consider the battalion cost, the mortis engine (that you really dont need) and the second necromancer. 

I think both your lists need more summonable bodies to improve your board control. You need it to protect at least one gravesite (so you can summon back wiped units) and to contest the objectives. 

[Splint]

I completely agree on Arkhan being a fragile general, unfortunately I don’t have much of a choice if I go sacrament. I could change legion but ultimately taking Arkhan with sacrament because he is a great caster.

Lords of sacrament is so expensive for what it does, which is why I went away from it in the first list, glad to have another agree on that.

 

As for summonable units, I’m not following. I’ll have 70 models which are sumonable and 4 heroes capable of healing bringing back.  Could you elaborate that point?

 

[Splint]

I completely agree on Arkhan being a fragile general, unfortunately I don’t have much of a choice if I go sacrament. I could change legion but ultimately taking Arkhan with sacrament because he is a great caster.

Lords of sacrament is so expensive for what it does, which is why I went away from it in the first list, glad to have another agree on that.

 

As for summonable units, I’m not following. I’ll have 70 models which are sumonable and 4 heroes capable of healing bringing back.  Could you elaborate on how many and which summonable units.

 

[Splint]

Whoops sorry for the double. Thought I was just editing.

ignore the first post

[Honk]

Since competitive means bring all the cheese, I personally favor the second list, but would throw out the battalion and the engine. Also switch the geminids for the portal. For the 290 points take another block of skellis, or a coven throne (because I love it) or some of the new hotness. grimghast reapers or the chainrasp horde, I’m not into NH, but people keep praising them.

[Bradifer]

IF you change Prince Vordrai to VLoZD you can give them the ignore rend artifact.

Mystic shield on the VLoZD, ignore rend is 3+ save rerolling 1's.

That cheese is quite common at this point and very effective.

[Splint]

On 8/23/2018 at 2:53 PM, Honk said:

personally favor the second list, but would throw out the battalion and the engine. Also switch the geminids for the portal. For the 290 points take another block of skellis, or a coven throne (because I love it) or some of the new hotness. grimghast reapers or the chainrasp horde, I’m not into NH, but people keep praising them.

Pretty much what I did in the first list. Put in grimghast reapers, but switched out the coven/Skelly block for lady O for more debuff and buff spells as well as some nice mortal wound output.

but I can see that it might be overkill and probably benefit more from filling out some units.

 

grimghasts look great on paper, more manuverable and better than graveguard. Plus, like you said the hype is real.

 

what about the coven throne do you like? It’s always something I brushed pass, but reading it again that command ability is nice. How do you use it?

[Splint]

5 hours ago, Bradifer said:

change Prince Vordrai to VLoZD you can give them the ignore rend artifact.

The cheese is real! I have started playing that to see which I prefer. I will update as I go :)

[Honk]

9 hours ago, Splint said:

reading it again that command ability is nice. How do you use it?

I´ve been all over this forum praising it and I will gladly elaborate again:

 

It stands between a Vamp and a Vamp on Dragon at 260 Points, with 3 invocations and CC-regen and the once per game re-roll dice

It´s a wizard, 14" fast and pretty blendy with roughly 13x 3+/3+/-/1 attacks (6wounds) and 12 ghost attacks (2MW+1W).

The command ability is really good for the throne, morghast or a Vamplord on dragon, actually whatever is in serious combat

that´s not even it... if you buy now with your credit card and offer your firstborn:

the spell beguile prevents retaliation attacks! cast on 6 within 12", 3d6 vs units bravery (~10 ) and that unit cannot attack the Coven throne...

(Lord-Celestant on Stardrake, Mawcrusher...I could go on...please do...Bloodsisters, Crazy Eels, Frostlord, Tzaangors all the charge happy crazies you don´t want charging)

 

I use it as an aggressive support unit, buffing my front lines while blocking flanking maneuvers by my enemy. And all the goodness it brings to f.e. your Dragonlord makes it anther target to be considered by your opponent. Focus on the lord or remove its support unit. And even without a dragon, the CA on a unit of 40 skellis while they are Van Hels buffed, same goes for Grave guard.

i usually have a unit of wolves with it to screen, if the spell fails or to reduce attack pressure in CC

[Josh]

looks fine man, id personally go list 1 as i feel it has more legs

only thing i would say would be play some games & see how you go with mortal wound demand, the only thing i see you struggling with it targets with really good armour saves but V man and spells might be enough

ive been playing sacrament since LoN has come out & come away with some podiums with Legion of Sac, just keep playing games & see what works in your local meta

[3Dragons]

On 8/23/2018 at 7:56 PM, Bradifer said:

IF you change Prince Vordrai to VLoZD you can give them the ignore rend artifact.

Mystic shield on the VLoZD, ignore rend is 3+ save rerolling 1's.

That cheese is quite common at this point and very effective.

Wait! Which artefact does this?

[Josh]

etheral amulet - auto pick for vlozd lol

[Uvatha]

On 8/24/2018 at 5:06 PM, Honk said:

I´ve been all over this forum praising it and I will gladly elaborate again:

 

It stands between a Vamp and a Vamp on Dragon at 260 Points, with 3 invocations and CC-regen and the once per game re-roll dice

It´s a wizard, 14" fast and pretty blendy with roughly 13x 3+/3+/-/1 attacks (6wounds) and 12 ghost attacks (2MW+1W).

The command ability is really good for the throne, morghast or a Vamplord on dragon, actually whatever is in serious combat

that´s not even it... if you buy now with your credit card and offer your firstborn:

the spell beguile prevents retaliation attacks! cast on 6 within 12", 3d6 vs units bravery (~10 ) and that unit cannot attack the Coven throne...

(Lord-Celestant on Stardrake, Mawcrusher...I could go on...please do...Bloodsisters, Crazy Eels, Frostlord, Tzaangors all the charge happy crazies you don´t want charging)

 

I use it as an aggressive support unit, buffing my front lines while blocking flanking maneuvers by my enemy. And all the goodness it brings to f.e. your Dragonlord makes it anther target to be considered by your opponent. Focus on the lord or remove its support unit. And even without a dragon, the CA on a unit of 40 skellis while they are Van Hels buffed, same goes for Grave guard.

i usually have a unit of wolves with it to screen, if the spell fails or to reduce attack pressure in CC

Hello!

Would it work to have four (4) Coven Thrones with a Lady Olynder ally casting her "Grief-stricken" spell (+1 to hit the target for everyone) ?

This spell would double the mortal wounds output of the non-nerfed Frightful Touch of the Coven Thrones (~4MW+1W). And their normal wound attacks before save would rise to 7W. Four of these 14" flying wizard heroes would then deliver to the grief-stricken target something around ~ 16MW + 4W +  28W (compared to ~8MW + 4W + 23W if spell is unbound or for other non-cursed targets).

And with the 720 points left you could fit in  40 + 40 +20 Chainrasp Hordes as battleline units, each one of them supported by 4  * D3 of Deathly Invocation regen each turn which the General's trait "Master of Death" would allow to reroll (~8 models regenerated in each unit each turn, or even ~10 if these Chainrasp Hordes units benefit from the Grand Host of Nagash  gravesites regen as well, to be confirmed if anyone knows?).

Allegiance: Grand Host of Nagash
Leaders
Coven Throne (260)
- General
- Trait: Master of Death 
- Artefact: Terrorghiest Mantle 
- Lore of the Vampires: Amaranthine Orb
Coven Throne (260)
- Lore of the Vampires: Vile Transference
Coven Throne (260)
- Lore of the Vampires: Blades of Shyish
Coven Throne (260)
- Lore of the Vampires: Soulpike
Lady Olynder, Mortarch of Grief (240)
- Allies
Battleline
20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)
40 x Chainrasp Horde (280)
40 x Chainrasp Horde (280)
Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 240 / 400
Wounds: 155

[Honk]

4 hours ago, Uvatha said:

Would it work to have four (4) Coven Thrones with a Lady Olynder ally casting her "Grief-stricken" spell (+1 to hit the target for everyone) ?

Sounds crazy... and you presume to get all 4 thrones to hit one unit, unprobable. 

But still crazy. With all the invocation, you might 2x30/2x20 or 40/3x10 your chainrasp horde for more board control. Don’t know how they perform best.

You get 4x3 d3 models back from the coven thrones and another 4x d3 from gravesites that sums up to 32 models average... even more madness!

 With tears in my eyes I‘d recommend scratching one throne for two necromancers. Overwhelming Dread and van hels Dance are just what‘s missing...

please try and report back

[Uvatha]

12 hours ago, Honk said:

Sounds crazy... and you presume to get all 4 thrones to hit one unit, unprobable. 

But still crazy. With all the invocation, you might 2x30/2x20 or 40/3x10 your chainrasp horde for more board control. Don’t know how they perform best.

You get 4x3 d3 models back from the coven thrones and another 4x d3 from gravesites that sums up to 32 models average... even more madness!

 With tears in my eyes I‘d recommend scratching one throne for two necromancers. Overwhelming Dread and van hels Dance are just what‘s missing...

please try and report back

For testing I will have to use proxies/empty bases because these Coven Thrones are big machines to assemble and paint

Yes I agree with you: getting 4 Coven Thrones in contact with same debuffed unit can be difficult, especially if it is a hero single model unit. But if it is a large horde of 30-40 -something- then: the Coven Thrones do not have to specifically align all together, they can pile in and get in contact with target at distinct places. As they fly and have 14" move (at full health, which never lasts ^^) they are quite mobile. Indeed replacing one with 2 necromancers and their Vanhel's Danse is promising.

Oh and we forgot the 3 re-rolls in the game  I think i twas nerfed with LoN: before it was 'any', and now it is only a dice roll 'for this model'.

 

[Honk]

4 hours ago, Uvatha said:

we forgot the 3 re-rolls in the game 

Totally bonkers!!!

together with the command ability the ladies will totally go to town and back...

and if things are to scary, beguile ??

[Hoseman]

Hi all. Here's my list for sachrament:

Arkhan 

Coven throne

Necro

Vampire Lord on nightmare steed rockin 90s miniature.

40 skelis

2x 10 chainrasp horde

2x 5 Hexwraiths

20 grimhast reapers

3 spirit hosts

So here you can switch to night with ambush style (with I love) by changing Arkhan + spirit hosts for Manfred and quiksilver swords.

Those are my favourite lists, you have lot of body's, speed Hexwraiths that when u pass through a unit always confuse the enemy and start going after them, chainrasp for control some points and of course grimhast to kill

[Splint]

So... I did some play testing with the first list, played against nurgle (loss, very close) seraphon (win, again very close) and ironjaws (win), dispossessed (hilarious win)

Lady O, she did well, her spell is amazing, she’s a decent threat (although her mw’s output was foreseeably low against nurgle), she was great next to the skeleton blob, Have not really thrown her into combat yet so I’m hoping to get a little more for her points still.

vlozd vs vhordrai, played both but in the end I really missed having vord there, he just consistently hits better. He also proved to be a great distraction, another immediate threat that needed to be dealt with, thus always having something heavy doing work

I Was concerned with only having 20 reapers, but they were solid offensively. Can see the benefit of tuning 30, though I can forsee them being removed from lon, they are just so strong with the lon benefits.

I will post up my battle reports when I get another second

I will also continue to keep play testing. I feel it’s at a pretty good place but more games is always good.