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ClockworkGeo91

Is Celestant-Prime Karl Franz (Balthas Argument SPOILERS)

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Spoilers for Soul Wars

Prior to the Soul Wars novel, its was (fairly) argued that Celestant-Prime could not be Karl Franz, due to the fact Franz belonged to a different world and had simply perished. 

However with the advent of the Soul Wars - It is heavily implied that a Lord Arcanum, known as Balthas Arum, was in fact at one point Balthasar Gelt of the old world. Whether he was reincarnated as mortal in the realms before becoming a storm cast - or whether his soul was preserved from the end of the 'World that Was' is up for debate. However what it does show is that non-gods can somehow be preserved from the Old War in one form or another.

Does this mean that Karl Franz' soul has been recycled as Celestant-Prime? Given he is once again Sigmar's favoured champion and once again wields Ghal Maraz? Or not? Or does it really matter?

Thoughts?

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Can't remember off the top of my head, but I'm sure that somewhere it's referred to as the Celestant Prime was previously a ruler from the Mortal Realms?

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It was discussed on here in the past: 

 

My own feeling is that the Celestant Prime is somebody we've never heard of - part of me actually likes the mystery behind it too :)

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These seem to be things that they have been hinting at from the very start but will never reveal which I am fine with. So far some likely Old World characters in the Stormcast faction are Vlad von Carnstein, Valten and Karl Franz.

 

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10 minutes ago, Redmanphill said:

These seem to be things that they have been hinting at from the very start but will never reveal which I am fine with. So far some likely Old World characters in the Stormcast faction are Vlad von Carnstein, Valten and Karl Franz.

Why could Vlad be a Stormcast?

I mean regarding what the mortarchs are, it's pretty a safe bet to assume that Nagash could easily "recreate" the missing ones (Krell, Vlad and so one) based on his memories and reflecting one part of his personality.

I mean yes, Vlad was a very cool character during EoT but I guess his soul is too linked to Nagash to be used by anyone else. But maybe I've skipped some fluff elements!

Edited by Ghark
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37 minutes ago, BaldoBeardo said:

Can't remember off the top of my head, but I'm sure that somewhere it's referred to as the Celestant Prime was previously a ruler from the Mortal Realms?

I'm not sure it says mortal realms, but It certainly refers to him being a ruler of sorts. Saying that, he could be both. We aren't certain how Balthasar (Balthas) came to be a Stormcast. It could be that they were reincarnated as mortals in the new realms before being a stormcast.

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21 minutes ago, Redmanphill said:

These seem to be things that they have been hinting at from the very start but will never reveal which I am fine with. So far some likely Old World characters in the Stormcast faction are Vlad von Carnstein, Valten and Karl Franz.

 

Agree.

 

I like the dark soul esque vibe when it comes to hinting at these things, so that we are free to speculate.

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28 minutes ago, RuneBrush said:

It was discussed on here in the past: 

 

My own feeling is that the Celestant Prime is somebody we've never heard of - part of me actually likes the mystery behind it too :)

Yup - I like the room for speculation, I need to reread the passage that describes celestant vibes, but immediately my mind considered KF

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didn't it say somewhere that the prime was someone who once wielded Ghal Maraz in another life?

Edited by Kaleb Daark

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Is Balthus an Anvil of the Heldenhammer? Theyre all supposed to be souls from the World that Was nicked from one of the Shyish underworlds i believe. In theory Karl Franzs soul could have been acquired from there too!

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Whatever happened to the Green Knight? I thought it was an epic sculpt, especially because the sculptor just blew off his sculpting hand.

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Isn't there a stormhost were all the stormcast are reforged souls from the old world?

I don't think you need to be reincarnated Into the mortal realms to be made a stormcast, so long as daddy Sigmar can get a hold of your soul

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I mean Phil Kelly has straight up said on a live stream Q&A that many of the souls of bretonnians are probably now stormcasts so I'm pretty sure it's confirmed that souls from the world that was can be grabbed by sigmar. Personally I hope the celestant prime's identity remains a mystery but that's not gonna stop me speculating that its Karl Franz or Guilles Le Breton.

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It seems in the new Gotrek book that is coming that Felix will be a Stormcast

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18 hours ago, ClockworkGeo91 said:

I'm not sure it says mortal realms, but It certainly refers to him being a ruler of sorts. Saying that, he could be both. We aren't certain how Balthasar (Balthas) came to be a Stormcast. It could be that they were reincarnated as mortals in the new realms before being a stormcast.

Sigmar raided the underworlds, and claimed a number of souls from Nagash’s personal collection. This was the proverbial last straw for Nagash. Balthasar Gelt was among Nagash’s prizes. Sigmar could have grabbed a number of other luminaries of the old world from Shyish, where a number of them apparently ended up.

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5 hours ago, Moonlightwolf said:

I mean Phil Kelly has straight up said on a live stream Q&A that many of the souls of bretonnians are probably now stormcasts so I'm pretty sure it's confirmed that souls from the world that was can be grabbed by sigmar. Personally I hope the celestant prime's identity remains a mystery but that's not gonna stop me speculating that its Karl Franz or Guilles Le Breton.

It was Sigmar raiding Shyish for the souls of the Long Dead that finally put Nagash’s temper over the edge. The Anvils of the Heldenhammer are in part made up of souls drawn directly from the underworld and in many cases from the Old World. 

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21 hours ago, RuneBrush said:

It was discussed on here in the past: 

 

My own feeling is that the Celestant Prime is somebody we've never heard of - part of me actually likes the mystery behind it too :)

I have to agree, Franz was my personal favorite character that got me into the game in the first place. I don't want the Prime to be Karl Franz because part of his appeal was he was a mere human standing against the inhuman. He should either stay dead or be resurrected as a man to rule over Sigmaron while Sigmar is busy being a God.

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12 hours ago, MacDuff said:

Whatever happened to the Green Knight? I thought it was an epic sculpt, especially because the sculptor just blew off his sculpting hand.

He was revealed to be Gilles Le Breton in the lord of the end times novel (and the Archaon campaign book?), last seen defending La Maisontaal Abbey with Abhorash the Red Duke and the surviving Bretonians.

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They might need a reason for all the Free Guild models to have Karl Franz emblazoned on them, having him revealed as an important reincarnated character might be a way to do that...

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I kind of love that Sigmar was evidently running out of ideas for Cool Stormcast names when he got to Balthas; "Balthasar... Balthasar...um... Balthas Arum!"

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Of course Balthasar Gelt would become stormcast, everyone has his stupid face! (Wheres my alternative helmets gw!)

 

I think Prime is the "could be but could be not" kind of special characters. Like Sanguinor in 40k who may or may not be Sanguinius.

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On 8/21/2018 at 11:45 PM, LLV said:

It seems in the new Gotrek book that is coming that Felix will be a Stormcast

Puke ???

Still holding out hope this is an obvious solicitation red herring as the first place Gotrek would look for him and not the case.

 

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