Juicy Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 Could the celestial prime be valten. Since in the end times valten dead but knew sigmar had a greater plan for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefang Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 Old hero will come back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Taylor Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 It was implied in the Soul War Novel that Malice (The World that Was) hosts a number of souls from Fantasy battles. There is nothing stopping those souls coming into the world. I just wish it would stop personally. AoS is 4 years old. Some people don't even know what Warhammer was before this game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANevskyUSA Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 I don't see how Karl Franz could be the Celestant Prime for two reasons: 1. It seemed pretty clear to me that in the end times, Karl Franz became the God Emperor of Man... umm... incarnation of Sigmar at the point he was cut down. Like a Jedi, he became more powerful than we could possibly imagine. Thus Karl Franz cannot be the CP because he is Sigmar. 2. Even if we go with the soul-replacement theory, the timeline is all wrong. Sigmarines only became a thing during the Age of Chaos. After Sigmar decided to create them, the lore states that heroes are snatched up by him at the point of death. Because Karl Franz died millennia before the Age of Chaos even started, heck, even before the Mortal Realms came into being, he could not have been taken up. Stormcasts had not even been conceived then. Is there any lore suggesting that Sigmar took any souls of long-dead heroes out of Shyish? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juicy Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 And for the celestial prime the first stormcast his soul only awakend when he got ghalmarz and the only 2 beings that wielded it. Where karl and valten. And valten is hinted for something greater in the end time novels Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPjr Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 53 minutes ago, ANevskyUSA said: Is there any lore suggesting that Sigmar took any souls of long-dead heroes out of Shyish? Yes, absolutely loads in fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EccentricCircle Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 13 minutes ago, Juicy said: And for the celestial prime the first stormcast his soul only awakend when he got ghalmarz and the only 2 beings that wielded it. Where karl and valten. And valten is hinted for something greater in the end time novels Did other Emperors not wield it before Karl Franz? I thought it was passed down as an heirloom, but I may have been misunderstanding, since I'm not very up on my Empire Lore. Or do you just mean that they were the only "hammer bearers" to be alive at the end times? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eevika Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 Celestant Prime is Skarsnik mark my words Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jator Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 17 minutes ago, EccentricCircle said: Did other Emperors not wield it before Karl Franz? I thought it was passed down as an heirloom, but I may have been misunderstanding, since I'm not very up on my Empire Lore. Or do you just mean that they were the only "hammer bearers" to be alive at the end times? Quoting the Warhammer wiki: When Sigmar vacated the Imperial Throne in the year of 50 IC, it is unclear whether he left his Warhammer upon the throne along with his crown, or whether he took it with him. Historical texts differ on this point: some say that the Emperor left the Warhammer on the throne, others that he took it with him, and still, others that the Dwarfs returned it to a future Emperor some years later, saying that Sigmar had left it with them on his journey to the East. So it is technically possible for the Celestant-Prime to be Magnus the Pious or Mandred Skavenslayer, but popularity being a factor in these "creative decisions" make it unlikely. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANevskyUSA Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 25 minutes ago, JPjr said: Yes, absolutely loads in fact. Such as...? I'm not tryung to be combative - I really want to know because I haven't kept up on the Sigmarine lore (the Chaos guys and the Fyreslayers are just more interesting). From what I remember, there was Vandus, who was killed fighting Khorgas Khul (not long-dead), there was the guy who used to be a Nurgle Champion (not long-dead), there was that Relictor who was a necromancer doing necromancy sometime during the Age of Chaos (not long dead), and there is the guy that was hanging out with Gotrek (not long-dead). Who are the ones that I am missing that died long before the Stormcast project started? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EccentricCircle Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 5 minutes ago, Jator said: Quoting the Warhammer wiki: When Sigmar vacated the Imperial Throne in the year of 50 IC, it is unclear whether he left his Warhammer upon the throne along with his crown, or whether he took it with him. Historical texts differ on this point: some say that the Emperor left the Warhammer on the throne, others that he took it with him, and still, others that the Dwarfs returned it to a future Emperor some years later, saying that Sigmar had left it with them on his journey to the East. So it is technically possible for the Celestant-Prime to be Magnus the Pious or Mandred Skavenslayer, but popularity being a factor in these "creative decisions" make it unlikely. Interesting! Thanks! Magnus the Pious would be an awesome leader for the Stormcast. I think that's going to be my new headcanon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANevskyUSA Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 1 hour ago, xking said: Karl Franz is not Sigmar, his Spirit left his body when he was killed and then Sigmar possessed his corpse. Is that your interpretation, or was that stated in the lore? I did not play WHFB 8th, so I don't know what was in the game books; I only read the novels, and from what I recall, the novel did not specify that Sigmar possessed Karl Franz's corpse - just that when the Glottkin killed KF on the altar, the rrsult did not go as planned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EccentricCircle Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 1 minute ago, ANevskyUSA said: Such as...? I'm not tryung to be combative - I really want to know because I haven't kept up on the Sigmarine lore (the Chaos guys and the Fyreslayers are just more interesting). From what I remember, there was Vandus, who was killed fighting Khorgas Khul (not long-dead), there was the guy who used to be a Nurgle Champion (not long-dead), there was that Relictor who was a necromancer doing necromancy sometime during the Age of Chaos (not long dead), and there is the guy that was hanging out with Gotrek (not long-dead). Who are the ones that I am missing that died long before the Stormcast project started? Balthas Aurum, the stormcast mage from the soul wars novel is very strongly implied to be a resurrected Balthasar Gelt, former patriarch of the Colleges of Magic in Altdorf. I believe that the other stormcast lord arcanum whom he is friends with in that book is speculated to by Thyrus Gormann, but he gets less screen time so there isn't as much evidence to be sure. Nothing is confirmed, but that seems to imply that Sigmar does have access to some very ancient souls from before the current world. A later book introduced a Stormcast commander who may possibly be Settra the Imperishable, the greatest Pharaoh of Khemri, this was met with mixed enthusiasm from Tomb Kings fans. I don't know of any others off the top of my head, but its certainly looking as though its possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPjr Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 4 minutes ago, ANevskyUSA said: Such as...? I'm not tryung to be combative - I really want to know because I haven't kept up on the Sigmarine lore (the Chaos guys and the Fyreslayers are just more interesting). From what I remember, there was Vandus, who was killed fighting Khorgas Khul (not long-dead), there was the guy who used to be a Nurgle Champion (not long-dead), there was that Relictor who was a necromancer doing necromancy sometime during the Age of Chaos (not long dead), and there is the guy that was hanging out with Gotrek (not long-dead). Who are the ones that I am missing that died long before the Stormcast project started? Well for a start every member of the Anvils of the Heldenhammer stormhost was forged from the soul of a hero who died in the age of myth. then you have lads like Balthus who were Forged from souls from the old world (see also potentially Settrus and a few others). sure there are plenty of other examples in lore, to the point where at one point it seemed like every other StormCast was some old fan favourite being dragged from their grave to vainly try & appease people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zilberfrid Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, EccentricCircle said: Balthas Aurum, the stormcast mage from the soul wars novel is very strongly implied to be a resurrected Balthasar Gelt, former patriarch of the Colleges of Magic in Altdorf. I believe that the other stormcast lord arcanum whom he is friends with in that book is speculated to by Thyrus Gormann, but he gets less screen time so there isn't as much evidence to be sure. Nothing is confirmed, but that seems to imply that Sigmar does have access to some very ancient souls from before the current world. A later book introduced a Stormcast commander who may possibly be Settra the Imperishable, the greatest Pharaoh of Khemri, this was met with mixed enthusiasm from Tomb Kings fans. I don't know of any others off the top of my head, but its certainly looking as though its possible. Well, Aurum meaning gold, and Gelt meaning money, but closely associated with gold, the decision to put a Balthas Aurum in the lore while aBalthasar Gelt was already present cannot be a coincidence. It is a complaint I read a bit more often about the early lore. "You loved this character, it is a Stormcast now. Love the Stormcast, they are everything you ever wanted and loved. Please, just love the Stormcast." Edited November 15, 2019 by zilberfrid 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jator Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 5 hours ago, EccentricCircle said: Interesting! Thanks! Magnus the Pious would be an awesome leader for the Stormcast. I think that's going to be my new headcanon. A great choice! Certainly better than Karl Franz at stopping Chaos Invasions... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EccentricCircle Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 2 minutes ago, Jator said: A great choice! Certainly better than Karl Franz at stopping Chaos Invasions... Just a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jefferson Skarsnik Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 Can't believe it turned out Karl Franz is actually still alive and he just had a really vivid dream of being a giant gold superhero thing with spiky wings in an imaginary future All waking up and realising with great disappointment that the sewers of Altdorf have flooded the city with warpstone-infused human waste again, and that the long-dead and possibly apocryphal barbarian" Sigmar Heldenhammer" is still dead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefang Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 8 hours ago, EccentricCircle said: Balthas Aurum, the stormcast mage from the soul wars novel is very strongly implied to be a resurrected Balthasar Gelt, former patriarch of the Colleges of Magic in Altdorf. I believe that the other stormcast lord arcanum whom he is friends with in that book is speculated to by Thyrus Gormann, but he gets less screen time so there isn't as much evidence to be sure. Nothing is confirmed, but that seems to imply that Sigmar does have access to some very ancient souls from before the current world. A later book introduced a Stormcast commander who may possibly be Settra the Imperishable, the greatest Pharaoh of Khemri, this was met with mixed enthusiasm from Tomb Kings fans. I don't know of any others off the top of my head, but its certainly looking as though its possible. No it’s almost confirmed, in the sequel short story he encountered Manfred and recall the memory of Altdorf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EccentricCircle Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 45 minutes ago, Whitefang said: No it’s almost confirmed, in the sequel short story he encountered Manfred and recall the memory of Altdorf Interesting. I'll have to check it out! What is the story called? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefang Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 5 minutes ago, EccentricCircle said: Interesting. I'll have to check it out! What is the story called? The Library of Forgotten Moments you can find it in Gods & Mortals anthology Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EccentricCircle Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 3 minutes ago, Whitefang said: The Library of Forgotten Moments you can find it in Gods & Mortals anthology Thanks, i'll check that out. I'm hoping there will be an audiobook of that anthology sooner or later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayniac Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 If KF didn't "become" Sigmar then he's a good candidate (I thought he became Sigmar too). Otherwise my vote is Magnus the Pious. He fits all the criteria. I think this is one of the things that will never be stated (like what happened to the 2 missing legions in 40k). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juicy Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 Sigmar is just sigmar. We talking about the celestant prime and his identitie😁 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michu Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 5 minutes ago, Juicy said: Sigmar is just sigmar. We talking about the celestant prime and his identitie😁 Not exactly - current Sigmar's body belonged once to Karl Franz. During End Times, when Karl Franz was mortally wounded, Sigmar's spirit possessed his body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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