Allies & magic in Aos2

[DagW]

I'm slipping back into Aos again after an extended period of 40k, and while I still need to finish up a swath of my Death army, I can't stop thinking about freeguild - with allies. How necessary is magic is Aos2? Would I survive with no magic on the battlefield? Armywise, I was thinking big blocks of crossbows and militia, and backing them up with Swifthawk boats - I need something not so static alongside the gunlines. My thought was first 2 skycutters and a skywarden to run around, kill warmachines and grab objectives, but leaving no allied points for magic. If I drop one skycutter, so 1+warden, I can fit a battlemage in there to unbind and shoot off some spells. What do you guys actually think would be the most useful? More oomph from the extra cutter, or whatever magical prowess a battlemage can bring to the table?

[Charlo]

So I'm new to AoS myself but been lurking reading the rules and forums.

Magic is massive in 2.0, especially with the super destructive endless spells and more armies getting full spell lores etc.

I'd definitely say you need at least some Unbind options, if not a caster!

Edit: Or else your enemy mages will doot as they please  (nice pic!)

[Overread]

I think you need mages to at the very least be able to have some counter magic options. Allied mages are in a tricky spot as if they are allied in they can't use their native spell tome, so they only come with the spells and abilities on their warscroll (though I believe I am right in saying that if you take a realm then they can use the spells from the realm spell lore for that game). 

Even one or two mages to counter enemy mages is a bonus for you; it gives you a chance to shut down an opponents spells and endless spells; it gives you an option to deny them something. I think can survive, with the right army, with little to no magic, but to survive with little to no access to unbinding is harder. 

[DagW]

2 minutes ago, Overread said:

I think you need mages to at the very least be able to have some counter magic options. Allied mages are in a tricky spot as if they are allied in they can't use their native spell tome, so they only come with the spells and abilities on their warscroll (though I believe I am right in saying that if you take a realm then they can use the spells from the realm spell lore for that game). 

Even one or two mages to counter enemy mages is a bonus for you; it gives you a chance to shut down an opponents spells and endless spells; it gives you an option to deny them something. I think can survive, with the right army, with little to no magic, but to survive with little to no access to unbinding is harder. 

So I suppose a Battlemage would be quite good. Pointswise, what I'm plannig is on the nose at 2000, but realm spells sound good, and giving 40-man blobs +1 to wound in shooting and combat isn't half bad either. Too bad Freeguild has no magic of their own. I really want to convert a nice aelven mage I had planned for a long time though, he could probably hack it as a Battlemage. I've become inspired by Chris Peach's Hallowguild army. Damnit, my wallet doesn't need *another* horde army! I thought skelebois and guardsmen would be enough...?

[Craze]

1 hour ago, Overread said:

 (though I believe I am right in saying that if you take a realm then they can use the spells from the realm spell lore for that game). 

This is only true if you and your opponent agree on using realm rules .

[flamingwalnut]

While I always support Battlemages and all things Collegiate Arcane, the Knight Incantor from the new Stormcast might be the better choice if you want Magic Defense as she gets 1 automatic unbinding.

As for general lists for Freeguild, mobility is their biggest weakness. The Skycutters are a fun idea...but aren't a legal ally for Freeguild, so you don't get the Freeguild Allegiance abilities, which are super good. If you don't care and want to go Mixed Order, more power to ya. If ya DO care, then look to the infaction speed guys: General on Griffon. They are awesome. Demigryph aren't bad either, in certain uses.

[Cerlin]

Well firstly, no need to worry about allies if you want to play freeguild and swifthawk together. They are not allies so you would have to run generic order. The good news is you can run a free city from Firestorm. 

As for magic, I would say it is nice but not always necessary. Armies with lots of wounds makes magic feel less important. That is from my experience playing free guild for two years and often not bringing magic. Now that magic is better, you may feel it missing.

Try it both ways and see how you like it. 

A middle ground is bring a Devoted of Sigmar priest so you can dispel. The Excelsior Warpriest is great because he can do a heal and a nuke and neither can be dispelled.

I have played 4 games in the new edition and in 3 I had little to no magic and I did well.

[DagW]

4 hours ago, Cerlin said:

Well firstly, no need to worry about allies if you want to play freeguild and swifthawk together. They are not allies so you would have to run generic order. The good news is you can run a free city from Firestorm. 

As for magic, I would say it is nice but not always necessary. Armies with lots of wounds makes magic feel less important. That is from my experience playing free guild for two years and often not bringing magic. Now that magic is better, you may feel it missing.

Try it both ways and see how you like it. 

A middle ground is bring a Devoted of Sigmar priest so you can dispel. The Excelsior Warpriest is great because he can do a heal and a nuke and neither can be dispelled.

I have played 4 games in the new edition and in 3 I had little to no magic and I did well.

Aww man. Though the Tempest's Eye allegiance would actually work. And +4" movement for first turn flyers would make those Skycutters into objective grabbing racecars or nice alpha strikers with the +1 wound from the Skywarden pennant. And +1 save on first turn will help them survive too. 

[Cerlin]

8 hours ago, DagW said:

Aww man. Though the Tempest's Eye allegiance would actually work. And +4" movement for first turn flyers would make those Skycutters into objective grabbing racecars or nice alpha strikers with the +1 wound from the Skywarden pennant. And +1 save on first turn will help them survive too. 

Tempest eye is the city I referred to.

So a bit of a mix up. Free Guild is the human only army that has its abilities that are limited, in which you cannot take Swifthawk allies.

The Free Cities, on the other hand, are able to take what you want together, but are not allies. It is basically mixed order, with Tempest Eye on top. It is street legal so you are good.

I am playing mixed elf and human as Tempest Eye tomorrow in fact.

 

[DagW]

3 hours ago, Cerlin said:

Tempest eye is the city I referred to.

So a bit of a mix up. Free Guild is the human only army that has its abilities that are limited, in which you cannot take Swifthawk allies.

The Free Cities, on the other hand, are able to take what you want together, but are not allies. It is basically mixed order, with Tempest Eye on top. It is street legal so you are good.

I am playing mixed elf and human as Tempest Eye tomorrow in fact.

 

Nice. This would be the base of what I was thinking of running - the mage fits into the allegiance - or would a Loremaster be better? And what else to add? A Knight-Azyros might be nice for +to hit for all those fast crossbows - and the guard are supposed to have militia weapons for extra shootiness.  Perhaps another skycutter, and some elite infantry to hammer the opponent more than 1 griffon can do? 

[Cerlin]

5 hours ago, DagW said:

Nice. This would be the base of what I was thinking of running - the mage fits into the allegiance - or would a Loremaster be better? And what else to add? A Knight-Azyros might be nice for +to hit for all those fast crossbows - and the guard are supposed to have militia weapons for extra shootiness.  Perhaps another skycutter, and some elite infantry to hammer the opponent more than 1 griffon can do? 

The quickest and most thematic way for me would be an isle of dawn box, at least the elf half. Your list would love some High Warden and Swordmasters would give you punch.  You could find a box online or in a store, or get them on ebay cheap. 

You could also get cavalry instead. Skycutters arent bad, but they are more skirmishers than hammers.

[DagW]

8 minutes ago, Cerlin said:

The quickest and most thematic way for me would be an isle of dawn box, at least the elf half. Your list would love some High Warden and Swordmasters would give you punch.  You could find a box online or in a store, or get them on ebay cheap. 

You could also get cavalry instead. Skycutters arent bad, but they are more skirmishers than hammers.

Huh, I do have that, although I lost the plastic swordmasters on the tram. I do however have 20 of the metal ones, and a High Warden. Swordmasters at least can be a good hammer, do you have any experience with the warden?

[DagW]

So, this could be a thing. I could also exchange the swordmasters for spireguard or swordsmen and some endless spells, but lose offensive power. 

[Aezeal]

On ‎8‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 1:36 PM, DagW said:

I'm slipping back into Aos again after an extended period of 40k, and while I still need to finish up a swath of my Death army, I can't stop thinking about freeguild - with allies. How necessary is magic is Aos2? Would I survive with no magic on the battlefield? Armywise, I was thinking big blocks of crossbows and militia, and backing them up with Swifthawk boats - I need something not so static alongside the gunlines. My thought was first 2 skycutters and a skywarden to run around, kill warmachines and grab objectives, but leaving no allied points for magic. If I drop one skycutter, so 1+warden, I can fit a battlemage in there to unbind and shoot off some spells. What do you guys actually think would be the most useful? More oomph from the extra cutter, or whatever magical prowess a battlemage can bring to the table?

If you have no magic defense against my Gnarlroot wargrove I think I'd tear your army apart. I've not played against big blocks of troops yet so maybe the MW I can dish out will not be as relevant.. but I think it'd be quite a lot of magic  damage.

[Cerlin]

4 hours ago, DagW said:

Huh, I do have that, although I lost the plastic swordmasters on the tram. I do however have 20 of the metal ones, and a High Warden. Swordmasters at least can be a good hammer, do you have any experience with the warden?

I use the High Warden in almost every game. He is best as a flanker, mage killer, and second or third monster. All by himself he can get shot off, but next to a Dragonlord, why waste shots? He is a great receiver of loremaster buffs as well. I am playing an elf game with him today...Ill take some pictures and keep track of him. I am playing Tempest Eye, so my other monster is Archmage on Dragon.

[DagW]

8 minutes ago, Cerlin said:

I use the High Warden in almost every game. He is best as a flanker, mage killer, and second or third monster. All by himself he can get shot off, but next to a Dragonlord, why waste shots? He is a great receiver of loremaster buffs as well. I am playing an elf game with him today...Ill take some pictures and keep track of him. I am playing Tempest Eye, so my other monster is Archmage on Dragon.

Cool. I just realized that a dragon is actually cheaper money-wise than a griffon, even though I have an old metal one. Looks to me like a Drakeseer might be better? I like the flame spell and he has more attacks on the charge.  And only 40 points more than the Griffon. In that case, a dragon, a elf griffon and 2-3 rocs flying across the board might be a very nice alpha strike, and crossbows and militia to hold the line. 

[Cerlin]

19 hours ago, DagW said:

Cool. I just realized that a dragon is actually cheaper money-wise than a griffon, even though I have an old metal one. Looks to me like a Drakeseer might be better? I like the flame spell and he has more attacks on the charge.  And only 40 points more than the Griffon. In that case, a dragon, a elf griffon and 2-3 rocs flying across the board might be a very nice alpha strike, and crossbows and militia to hold the line. 

I originally built a Dragon Lord and he is great. I did an alternate build and tried the Archmage for the first time yesterday. My list had 4 endless spells and his built in spell is great for defense and getting your own endless spells back.

This was my list yesterday:

Allegiance: Tempest's Eye
Mortal Realm: Ghyran

Leaders
Archmage (100)
Archmage On Dragon (320)
- Magestaff & Book of Hoeth
Loremaster (140)
High Warden (220)
- General
- Trait: Legendary Fighter
- Artefact: Ghyrstrike 

Battleline
20 x Freeguild Guard (160)
- Swords and Shields
5 x Reavers (140)
5 x Reavers (140)

Units
10 x Swordmasters (160)
10 x Shadow Warriors (180)
30 x Spireguard (300)

Endless Spells
Aethervoid Pendulum (40)
Emerald Lifeswarm (60)
Quicksilver Swords (20)
Soulsnare Shackles (20)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 124
 

It was against new nighthaunt and the High Warden with a lore master was worth his weight in gold. I got turn one charged, because my opponent used cogs. The 1 to save saved my army. I had my High warden right behind my line, he piled in and did serious damage the first 3 turns. His lance having 3 attacks and hitting 2/3/-1/2 on not a charge is dirty BEFORE rerolls. He would be 2/2/-1/3 on the charge. 

The drakseer looks cool but Ive not used him. I went for 2 spells instead. And really its just an alternative build for my Dragon lord. I kit bashed the drakseer into an on foot loremaster.

[DagW]

5 hours ago, Cerlin said:

I originally built a Dragon Lord and he is great. I did an alternate build and tried the Archmage for the first time yesterday. My list had 4 endless spells and his built in spell is great for defense and getting your own endless spells back.

This was my list yesterday:

Allegiance: Tempest's Eye
Mortal Realm: Ghyran

Leaders
Archmage (100)
Archmage On Dragon (320)
- Magestaff & Book of Hoeth
Loremaster (140)
High Warden (220)
- General
- Trait: Legendary Fighter
- Artefact: Ghyrstrike 

Battleline
20 x Freeguild Guard (160)
- Swords and Shields
5 x Reavers (140)
5 x Reavers (140)

Units
10 x Swordmasters (160)
10 x Shadow Warriors (180)
30 x Spireguard (300)

Endless Spells
Aethervoid Pendulum (40)
Emerald Lifeswarm (60)
Quicksilver Swords (20)
Soulsnare Shackles (20)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 124
 

It was against new nighthaunt and the High Warden with a lore master was worth his weight in gold. I got turn one charged, because my opponent used cogs. The 1 to save saved my army. I had my High warden right behind my line, he piled in and did serious damage the first 3 turns. His lance having 3 attacks and hitting 2/3/-1/2 on not a charge is dirty BEFORE rerolls. He would be 2/2/-1/3 on the charge. 

The drakseer looks cool but Ive not used him. I went for 2 spells instead. And really its just an alternative build for my Dragon lord. I kit bashed the drakseer into an on foot loremaster.

Looks good, and I didn't think about the Shadow Warriors and their deployment move and cover shooting, a perfect fit for Tempest. I did some digging and found I at least have a good basis for an army already. 

Old metal freeguild griffon, Archmages, 20 swordmasters, Loremaster, Skywarden, High Warden, 10 Reavers, 20 Spireguard and a few old metal Shadow Warriors. The new ones look much better though imo. So I got some magic and fast stuff, a bit of shootyness, and a solid infantry hammer. I do want an Archmage on dragon now though...