NurglesFirstChosen Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 In my opinion Sigmar is to blame. The path Archaon followed was inevitable given everything he went through. Archaon was a good man in his early days under the guise of kastner. Sigmar did nothing but allowed it to happen. I’d understand if others considered lileath or even teclis to be at fault, but for me the buck stops with Sigmar. What are your thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amysrevenge Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 Shared responsibility. Archaon and Teclis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambot1231 Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 Could have all been prevented if Mannfred didnt betray and ruin the ritual Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amysrevenge Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 Haha for me, Mannfred gets to enjoy the "boys will be boys" defense. Teclis (aka the village idiot lol) done messed up. And Archaon made his choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHHaunts Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 31 minutes ago, NurglesFirstChosen said: In my opinion Sigmar is to blame. The path Archaon followed was inevitable given everything he went through. Archaon was a good man in his early days under the guise of kastner. Sigmar did nothing but allowed it to happen. I’d understand if others considered lileath or even teclis to be at fault, but for me the buck stops with Sigmar. What are your thoughts? Wasebt Sigmar trapped by Tzeentch in the vortex? Althou he seemed to be able to influence events throughout the empires history I doubt he had the power to prevent something as dates as Archaons rise. You could argue it's Archaon aka diedricks fault for giving in to his fate rather than fighting it. Although if you read the novels you see that wasebt as easy as all that Teclis is the one responsible.for the world being destroyed when it was but things seem to be heading that way long before then. I think Teclis merely gambled time for his gambit. Archaic still would have taken middenhiem eventually the artefact would have been activated nd there would have been no incarnates to even attempt to reverse. I blaim manfred because he had a real choice to make that could have changed the course of history and made a terrible one for pretty petty reasons.(that an I'm an arkan fan) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vasshpit Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 Grimgor for not finishing off Archy. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michu Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 3 hours ago, Vasshpit said: Grimgor for not finishing off Archy. ? What was he supposed to do? Headbutt him and shout "I'M DA BEST"? Wait... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarrickson Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 My vote goes to Manfred. What a jobby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 Thanquol, because he didn’t backstab Archaon when he had the chance and took the world for himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurglesFirstChosen Posted August 14, 2018 Author Share Posted August 14, 2018 As much as I dislike teclis, he was manipulated by Lileath so was nothing but a pawn in most of his actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyshadow Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 I blame Chaos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurglesFirstChosen Posted August 14, 2018 Author Share Posted August 14, 2018 1 hour ago, xking said: How is sigmar to be blamed for something he had no power over? You know, with him being trapped in a magical vortex. Also Archaon is to be blamed, he is responsible for his own choices and actions. Ok maybe I should word it differently as Sigmars followers Archaon was an amazing example of what a knight should be early in his life. From the defence of Nils the original Kasters squire, to his insistence that inspite of the original Kastners past that he and Nils attempt to save him. Later when Kastner and Emil went to purge the beastmen encampment, Kastner was still a man of Sigmar. The shard of tainted herdstone that lodged in his eye socket was the start. Then his treatment at the hands of the templars on the road to altdorf threw him to the wolves. This was compounded by finding that the templars has massacred the people from the Kastner estate (mainly women and children). It was inevitable that he would fall after all the trauma he experienced at the hands of sigmars people. Sigmars representatives had a large hand in the fall of many of Chaos’s champions, archaon and the glottkin are good examples of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rekmeister Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 It's Mannfred. Dirty little tr8r. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurglesFirstChosen Posted August 14, 2018 Author Share Posted August 14, 2018 @xking I haven’t read the story of Huss, so I’m not sure exactly how he came to be. Developmentally speaking, our past does impact on our future, and those who inflict trauma on individuals are partly responsible for their future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 12 minutes ago, Rekmeister said: It's Mannfred. Dirty little tr8r. All part of the great horned rats plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Marius Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 Great topic! I think, apart from Archaon and Mannfred, the world couldnt have been destroyed without the actions of the skaven. All but wiping out the slann and dwarf empires, both forces who could have stood firmly against Chaos, blowing up Morrslieb, and then allying with Archaon and killing Valten...! And foiling Nagash's schemes yet again! They basically did almost all the heavy lifting to allow Archaon to reach the artefact (literally, they even dug it out for him!) Damn their furry hides! ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 45 minutes ago, Captain Marius said: Great topic! I think, apart from Archaon and Mannfred, the world couldnt have been destroyed without the actions of the skaven. All but wiping out the slann and dwarf empires, both forces who could have stood firmly against Chaos, blowing up Morrslieb, and then allying with Archaon and killing Valten...! And foiling Nagash's schemes yet again! They basically did almost all the heavy lifting to allow Archaon to reach the artefact (literally, they even dug it out for him!) Damn their furry hides! ? Bah! They are responsible and just manipulated archaon. It was a most cunning plan that fooled everybody even the writers, yes-yes! ? remember the great horned rat came out the ‘ best’ in all of this. He finally claimed his place in the fantastic four. ?The next step in his plan for world domination! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michu Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 6 minutes ago, Captain Marius said: Great topic! I think, apart from Archaon and Mannfred, the world couldnt have been destroyed without the actions of the skaven. All but wiping out the slann and dwarf empires, both forces who could have stood firmly against Chaos, blowing up Morrslieb, and then allying with Archaon and killing Valten...! And foiling Nagash's schemes yet again! They basically did almost all the heavy lifting to allow Archaon to reach the artefact (literally, they even dug it out for him!) Was that a praise? Thank-Thank you. You will be spared when we-we conquer the Mortal Realms too ( by spared we mean enslaved rather than killed.) 8 minutes ago, Captain Marius said: Damn their furry hides! ? Awww, and you were doing so well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClockworkGeo91 Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 3 hours ago, NurglesFirstChosen said: As much as I dislike teclis, he was manipulated by Lileath so was nothing but a pawn in most of his actions. I know the broad strokes of end times but never read the book, so apologies for what may be a stupid question. But why is everyone sayin Teclis? Was he not attempting a ritual to stop the end of the world? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clewz Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 1 hour ago, ClockworkGeo91 said: I know the broad strokes of end times but never read the book, so apologies for what may be a stupid question. But why is everyone sayin Teclis? Was he not attempting a ritual to stop the end of the world? Been a while since I read them but wasn't he meddling to save the elves and let chaos consume everybody else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 1 hour ago, ClockworkGeo91 said: I know the broad strokes of end times but never read the book, so apologies for what may be a stupid question. But why is everyone sayin Teclis? Was he not attempting a ritual to stop the end of the world? Yeah he tried. But the whole Teclis storyline was riddled with references to it being a gamble, not being sure of it working etc. So he was pretty much set up by the writer to add a sense of desperation to the ‘good guys’. and since the world ended you can probably guess how the gamble ended up I read them last year for the first time and would def recommend them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamose Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 Gavin. Just Gavin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurglesFirstChosen Posted August 14, 2018 Author Share Posted August 14, 2018 @ClockworkGeo91 @Clewz Teclis was manipulated by Lileath (Goddess of the moon, and lady of the lake) for generations, because upon her birth she saw the end of times and set about to save her daughter and the elves with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurglesFirstChosen Posted August 14, 2018 Author Share Posted August 14, 2018 @Kramer @ClockworkGeo91 I’d recommend the 2 Archaon books too, especially the first 1. I think like the glotts it’s hard not to feel for the guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClockworkGeo91 Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 Thanks all for the responses. I’ll need to read them I think. Was archaon only able to destroy the world because of Teclis ritual? I.e the gamble that went against them. Again sorry if these are silly questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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