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Charlo

Order Army themed around Magic

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So I'm very new to AoS but thinking of a Grand Alliance Order army themed around magic, wizards etc.

Pretty much if it's Order and casts or interacts with magic or has a magical kind of ability (like the new Storm Cast or Sisters of the Watch etc) i'll consider it! Especially things like the Collegia Arcane etc

Any helpful hints, tips, rules or strategy I could use to build this around? Any particular Battallions to use? Obviously Endless spells would be a must too :)

I also understand you can have your army be from one of the realms that unlocks further abilities?

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Seraphon (lizardmen) is probably what you want to look at. Even in the Old world they had powerful magic; and now they are the powerhouse of magic in the Order Grand Alliance. They have a battletome and thus are reasonably up to date and coherent and thus should prove an interesting magical based army.

Heck even their lore is heavily magical. Basically only their ancient mages, the Slaan (toads on floating stones) are truly alive. The rest of their army is summoned into battle via the slaans powerful magic; hooking into the souls and powers of their former peoples before the world broke. Giving them body and form to come and deliver celestial death from tooth and claw and razor swords to the enemies that would go against their grand design to bring order to the universe. 

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Oh absolutely, the problem is I'm just not too into the Lizardmen as a whole... I like a few of their units and would use them if it meant some good magic, but am more interested in Grand Alliance Order to give me the pick of everything and build from there :)

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From what I can gather I'd lean toward building a Sigmar army as your core and then use the 400 points of allies to pull in a mage or two from other factions as needed. I Think the remains of the old High Elves armies should give youa mage heavy option one day ;but my gut feeling is to wait and see what GW does with them. The Aelves are in a bit of a mess since GW broke them into multiple sub-groups and we've no idea from GW of today as to what their long term plan really is. 

We don't know if they'll all get the Daughters of Khaine treatment or if some will and some wont; if any will retire or not etc..

 

 

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You could always run a Free Cities army. Hallowheart gains +1 to Dispel, makes it really fun to have an Archmage. The only issue is that your mages won't be able to generate spells from their specified battletome (affects stormcast mages).

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Yeah. If you are trying to do just general Order as a magic based army it’s not going to work very well. You won’t have acesss to any magic lores from any of the individual armies. Only the spells listed on their warscrolls plus endless spells you might take and possibly realm spells if your opponent allows play with them. It’s a seriously disadvantaged list to try and work given also how squishy wizards can be. 

 

Better bets for magic heavy armies is the new sacrosanct Chambers with Stormcast or Saraphon if you want to play Order

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Taloren raises a good point. The way the armies work with regard to magic is different as you can only take the lore that your core faction has access too and that is only on the core faction wizards. Any allied or otherfaction wizards can only use what is on their warscroll - they can't use their own lore from their own faction nor share that of the faction they are joining. 

Now if you play with realm rules you can gain access to the realm magic lore, so that can be a bonus to allied mages. However realm stuff is a little hit and miss; some people play and love it others don't like it (endless spells though are fairly universally accepted by most). 

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1 hour ago, King Taloren said:

Yeah. If you are trying to do just general Order as a magic based army it’s not going to work very well. You won’t have acesss to any magic lores from any of the individual armies.

 

50 minutes ago, Overread said:

Taloren raises a good point. The way the armies work with regard to magic is different as you can only take the lore that your core faction has access too and that is only on the core faction wizards. Any allied or otherfaction wizards can only use what is on their warscroll - they can't use their own lore from their own faction nor share that of the faction they are joining.

Though to be fair, most order wizards don't even have a lore! Those can be allied with ease. Its mostly Stormcast, Deepkin, and Daughters of Khaine that have issues. And Serpahon to an extent if you want the slaan to have vast intellect (and also summoning).

Edited by kenshin620

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This is he current mixed order list I am running, with 3 wizards in it.

Dragonlord  340
-Legendary Fighter
-Realm Artefact that gives -3 rend

Frostheart Phoenix  280

Luminark of Hysh  240

Archmage  100

Loremaster  140

5 Liberators  100

5 Liberators  100

5 Reavers  140

5 Dragon Blades  140

3 Kurnoth Hunters  200
-Scythes

3 Kurnoth Hunters  200
-Scythes

Quicksilver Swords  20

 

The phoenix synergises with the mages to get a reliable 3+ and often 2+ save. The Loremadter uses Hand of Glory on the luminark turn one to try to snipe key targets. After that, Hamd of Glory goes on the Dragonlord which turns him into a murder machine. The luminark and archmage provide 6+ save-after-the-save bubbles which, when stacked, block 30% of incoming damage across the main force. The reavers are fast objective grabbers and a general annoyance, often a unit which goes under the radar and ends up coming in clutch. The frontline is fairly solid, and mainly present to soak the brunt of the assault, with the phoenix handing out -1 to wound in a bubble. Despite being a mix of a numaber of factions, it has actually worked out quite well for me so far.

 

I have run my dragonlord with the horn and lance, for one turn of maximum, Nagash-Killing, damage. The quicksilver potion or doppelganger cloak artefact are also very good artefacts to ensure value in close combat.

Edited by Luke.w
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So points as they come...

Don't really want to use one of the town set of rules. I think they'll go soon enough. They were a failure, plus I'd need to paint my stuff correctly I believe...

Not fussed about faction-specific lores, as I won't be playing one faction! Plus if I'm using a variety of Wizards anyway I'd rather just use Thier inbuilt spells which I'm sure will be fine enough.

I really like that army list and is exactly the sort of thing I'm going for! I think the fact you get to mix all the factions will be the strength of the list.

Doomfire Warlocks looks pretty amazing too.

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Sylvaneth gnarlroot list... 9 casts per turn and unlike mixed order you will actually have some choice in what to cast with your casters. And one mixed order mage allowed.

Edited by Aezeal

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On 8/11/2018 at 8:18 AM, Charlo said:

plus I'd need to paint my stuff correctly I believe...

I don't think I have ever seen people disallow somones paint schemes

 

Otherwise all those non standard custom painted Special Characters would be illegal!

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Sounds like a great idea.

What you need to look at is the spells models have on their warscroll to see how it will interact with the army as a whole.

I would start with a core of elf mages as they have some really good buff and debuff spells. The deepkin mages can stack -1 to hit, the Bloodwrack medusa has -1 to wound, loremaster can buff any single model, archmage give 6+ fnp to everyone within 18 of him.

Once you find the spells you like that can be used on everything it is all about filling out the list.

For battleline i would use Liberators just because they are the best all rounders and would suit the style imo.

Remember units that also have bound spells like sisters of the thorn.

Now you have me thinking i'll have a play and come up with an example that i would play with.

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Allegiance: Order
LEADERS
Battlemage On Griffon (240)
Sorceress (100)
Bloodwrack Medusa (140)
Loremaster (140)
Isharann Tidecaster (100)
Lord-Arcanum on Tauralon (340)
UNITS
5 x Liberators (100)
-Warhammer & Shield
5 x Doomfire Warlocks (160)
5 x Sisters of the Thorn (220)
5 x Liberators (100)
-Warhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
-Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (100)
-Warhammer & Shield
ENDLESS SPELLS
Balewind Vortex (40)
Chronomantic Cogs (60)
Malevolent Maelstrom (20)
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (40)

Total 2000 points.

You have a couple of heavy hitters ok battleline and a ton of debuffs.

You shouldn't have to worry about enemy casters either. Just a few fun ideas.

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I'll admit.. that is a  very magicky army... But doesn't seem like you'll be winning games (which might be fine... Just saying). 

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I like the Drakeseer myself,  300 points and the spell can do a LOT of damage if you roll well. (I did 15 mw's once with it) 

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6 hours ago, Davros said:

Allegiance: Order
LEADERS
Battlemage On Griffon (240)
Sorceress (100)
Bloodwrack Medusa (140)
Loremaster (140)
Isharann Tidecaster (100)
Lord-Arcanum on Tauralon (340)
UNITS
5 x Liberators (100)
-Warhammer & Shield
5 x Doomfire Warlocks (160)
5 x Sisters of the Thorn (220)
5 x Liberators (100)
-Warhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
-Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (100)
-Warhammer & Shield
ENDLESS SPELLS
Balewind Vortex (40)
Chronomantic Cogs (60)
Malevolent Maelstrom (20)
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (40)

Total 2000 points.

You have a couple of heavy hitters ok battleline and a ton of debuffs.

You shouldn't have to worry about enemy casters either. Just a few fun ideas.

That's quite a questionable list.

The Lord Arcanum on Tauralon is not great in a SCE list (with access to tons of spells and mount traits); here it's deadweight. Its warscroll spell is quite poor, leaving you with only Mystic Shield and Arcane Bolt. His command ability is straight-up useless in this list, and Cycle of the Storm works only on the Liberators (bringing almost nothing). A Drakeseer or Archmage on Dragon are way better in that list IMHO.

Edited by DanielFM

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Yea i realised later the lord arcanum is actually quite bad. Yes the dragon would be better or a celestial huricanum and drop the balewind.

 

Thought the Lord Arcanum would be a little bit more of a beatstick, but when i double checked he is really lackluster.

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So I'm struggling with the battleline for this.

Just don't know what to choose!

Glade Guard seem pretty good and the shooting fits the "theme" (as well as the cool - 3 rend ability) but I'm just not sure...

I hate the basic Stormcast so they are OUT I'm afraid too. Any ideas?

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3 hours ago, Charlo said:

So I'm struggling with the battleline for this.

Just don't know what to choose!

Glade Guard seem pretty good and the shooting fits the "theme" (as well as the cool - 3 rend ability) but I'm just not sure...

I hate the basic Stormcast so they are OUT I'm afraid too. Any ideas?

Reavers?  They shoot and move pretty fast

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Yeah they seem to fit the bill.

I've got some old Wood Elf Horse Archers lying around that could be decent.

What else?

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Okay so playing around with a list I've got this...

Fully aware it's probably TERRIBLE but I'm learning 

  • Anointed on Frostheart Phoenix; General (Strategic Genius), Artefact (Phoenix Stone)
  • Drakeseer
  • 5 Reavers
  • 5 Reavers
  • 30 Glade Guard
  • Celestial Hurricanum
  • Luminark of Hyish
  • Soulsnare Shackles

Currently sat at 1860. I'll probably need something a bit hitty with the points I suppose. 10 Phoenix Guard fit in nicely and are part of the theme IMO...?

Game plan would be:

  • Phoenix and Drakeseer tag-teaming big stuff with buffs to eachother and mortal wound spam
  • Luminark is a big gun with it's spell helping out against hordes
  • CH buffs the Glad Guard to hit rolls for their -3 Rend Alphastrike
  • Reivers provide distraction and mobility for objectives
  • Shackles keep big threats in place to nuke with spells and arrows
  • If I include the Phoenix Guard, they'll be an Anchor and protection for the other units.

It's probably awful but on the right track for my theme...ish.

Edited by Charlo

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Add a Loremaster.  Buff whichever of the big models needs it at the time.  (re-roll all failed hit/wound rolls)   plus the loremaster has decent stats for a wizard. 

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Aye was considering one of those...

But I think I'm lacking a front line... Would it be worth reducing the block of Glad Guard to fit in a decent melee unit?

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1 minute ago, Charlo said:

Aye was considering one of those...

But I think I'm lacking a front line... Would it be worth reducing the block of Glad Guard to fit in a decent melee unit?

True you do need some more melee oriented units.  

Phoenix guard will hold the line well but don't have any rend.  But they would gain synergy with your phoenix hero.  

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