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Pile in and attack twice


mmimzie

Question

Some abilities like, the necromancer's spell, allow you to pile in and attack twice with units. How does this work??? 

The way i've been playing it. Is you get two activations from the unit. SO you go with your double pile in and attack unit, and then your opponent piles in and attack, then you can pile in and attack with that last unit again. 

Now i suppose this could be wrong as it says you have to pick units that haven't already attacked. So i suppose it could also be that you pile in twice basicly going 6", and then attack twice. Now doing this changes some thing. If your piling in twice you can make your pile in moves in such way that you dont have to go to the original nearest target.  So you pile in once maybe moving slightly closer to one model, but alot closer to another, then pile in again going to the other model that you've made much closer???

 

How do you folks play it??? I assume it's not the way i have been playing it??? It seems now thati really look at it that you do them both at the same time??? Thanks in advance for the clarification

 

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Wurrgog Prophets' "Prophet of da Waaagh!" is a command ability done in the Hero Phase at the start of your turn. It allows 1 bonesplittas unit within 15" of him pile in and attack as if it were the Combat Phase. Per the rules of the combat phase, this unit would have to already be within 3" of enemy models. That unit can then pile in a second time as normal during the Combat Phase. 

Savage Big Boss' ability allows you to pick him to pile in, then you can pick another unit within 10" of him that is in combat to pile in and attack. Essentially this means you can force your opponent to wait two of your pile-ins before they can pick a unit to pile-in.

I don't see anything about a pile-in at the end of the phase (I dont have the book). Blood Warriors are kind of like this but they get an immediate free pile-in and attack per-model slain during your opponents "pile-in turn". 

A Necromancers VDM gives you two pile in options with one unit, but you still have to wait your turn for each of your pile-ins. If say you have 4 units in combat, and one of them has VDM, you now have 5 pile in "turns". 

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Also if you charged that turn, you can pile in both times even if there aren't any models within 3 inches (because you can pile in if you charged that turn - this rule is to limit the effect of taking casualties near a unit that hasn't attacked yet).

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12 minutes ago, Nico said:

Also if you charged that turn, you can pile in both times even if there aren't any models within 3 inches (because you can pile in if you charged that turn - this rule is to limit the effect of taking casualties near a unit that hasn't attacked yet).

holy snap that's right. How does this work now???  I suppose the unit has to make a successful charge, otherwise you haven't actually made a charge move

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holy snap that's right. How does this work now???  I suppose the unit has to make a successful charge, otherwise you haven't actually made a charge move

Yeah have to make a charge the connects with 1/2 inch. It's in case the models somehow die before you get to pile in and there's a gap over 3" you can still pile in to attack.

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I am still missing where you get to make a pile in move if no enemies are within 3".

I do see the rule you quoted as saying all you need is to complete a charge to attack with melee weapons, but not sure how that overrides the pile in move limitation.

On another note, the ability that allows you to pile in and attack twice in a combat phase  is not the same as doubling your pile in move(6").

It allows you to activate them to pile in and attack a second time, not 2 times in a row (the enemy will always get to activate in between).

**Nevermind, after re-reading the rules for combat phase, I see exactly what you are saying now"

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I have a question about how the bonesplittaz rules interact with this.  They ahve some units that can pile in and attack a second time 'at the end of your combat phase.  They also have an ability (in the iceclanz) that says monsters wounded by units from there cannot attack until all eligible units have attacked.  

Does that mean that the bonesplittaz units would get to pile in twice, and then the monster attacks?  Or is it, I go, everything else goes, [now all units have attacked], monster goes, I attack a second time?

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2 minutes ago, teddet said:

I have a question about how the bonesplittaz rules interact with this.  They ahve some units that can pile in and attack a second time 'at the end of your combat phase.  They also have an ability (in the iceclanz) that says monsters wounded by units from there cannot attack until all eligible units have attacked.  

Does that mean that the bonesplittaz units would get to pile in twice, and then the monster attacks?  Or is it, I go, everything else goes, [now all units have attacked], monster goes, I attack a second time?

i would say with your wording that this in deed the case, but i'd need to see exact wording to really give a good answer.

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Agree with all. Like I said, that's why I think it needs editing. Love GW and the games. Just aware they're not good at writing, style consistency, parallelism, clarity, grammar, etc. All of the writing in their products would be improved if they had better editors. Always going to be mistakes of course. That is the rule of written products. But GW operate at a pretty low level in this one category, not just in rules, but in all their writing. You see it from the rules right to the atrociously bad writing Warhammer World event makers use. No one's perfect. Writing has just not been a strong suit of GW's, and I think they could get a lot of bang for their buck investing in a (possibly new) editor.

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2 minutes ago, WoollyMammoth said:

Wurrgog Prophets' "Prophet of da Waaagh!" is a command ability done in the Hero Phase at the start of your turn. It allows 1 bonesplittas unit within 15" of him pile in and attack as if it were the Combat Phase. Per the rules of the combat phase, this unit would have to already be within 3" of enemy models. That unit can then pile in a second time as normal during the Combat Phase. 

Savage Big Boss' ability allows you to pick him to pile in, then you can pick another unit within 10" of him that is in combat to pile in and attack. Essentially this means you can force your opponent to wait two of your pile-ins before they can pick a unit to pile-in.

I don't see anything about a pile-in at the end of the phase (I dont have the book). Blood Warriors are kind of like this but they get an immediate free pile-in and attack per-model slain during your opponents "pile-in turn". 

A Necromancers VDM gives you two pile in options with one unit, but you still have to wait your turn for each of your pile-ins. If say you have 4 units in combat, and one of them has VDM, you now have 5 pile in "turns". 

I  guess i  kind of want to know why?? the VDM has you do separate activations over just one activation??? Is there wording in the rules or are we in common sense territory. I have no real dog in the race here as i don't care how it's played. I just want to play it correctly. 

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I am still missing where you get to make a pile in move if no enemies are within 3".

I do see the rule you quoted as saying all you need is to complete a charge to attack with melee weapons, but not sure how that overrides the pile in move limitation.

On another note, the ability that allows you to pile in and attack twice in a combat phase  is not the same as doubling your pile in move(6").

It allows you to activate them to pile in and attack a second time, not 2 times in a row (the enemy will always get to activate in between).

**Nevermind, after re-reading the rules for combat phase, I see exactly what you are saying now"

Just to clarify for anyone else reading it's because of this part:

848e31016efc26e55a10f1ca8d6395d2.png

Good rule to know for those odd situations when it happens

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3 hours ago, WoollyMammoth said:

I don't see anything about a pile-in at the end of the phase (I dont have the book).

Its the Savage Boarboy Maniaks that have this rule.

Maniak Fury: You can pile in and attack with this unit a second time at the end of each of your own combat phases.

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1 minute ago, Turragor said:

Don't some have the 'immediately' wording?

I believe there is/was some Slaanesh units that can immediately pile in and attack again or before your opponent gets to pick one of there units. The wording across the scrolls is not very consistent, but that could be intentional as some do work in different conditions.

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Lots of messy stuff in the wording all over AoS. GW has basically done an open beta and draft of this new game. Now that they've found the formula that's working for them, it would be nice if they did a big editing sweep to clean it all up.

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2 hours ago, polarbear said:

Lots of messy stuff in the wording all over AoS. GW has basically done an open beta and draft of this new game. Now that they've found the formula that's working for them, it would be nice if they did a big editing sweep to clean it all up.

Eh the messy is okay. I prefer the simple and messy over the what ever you call what 40k has where everything is so overly worded that al lthe tactics of the game have been strangled out of the thing. 

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Just now, mmimzie said:

Eh the messy is okay. I prefer the simple and messy over the what ever you call what 40k has where everything is so overly worded that al lthe tactics of the game have been strangled out of the thing. 

I definitely prefer simple as possible. Just don't think the GW writers are very good at technical writing. A lot of AoS is badly written and made less simple because of it. Great base there, just needs a strong edit. 

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I mean it's pretty tough to get it right the first time. It's hard to see all the little ways a thing works. You know they play tested it themselves, and even invited people to play test it.

It's just like any MMO. You can Alpha/Beta and stress test all you want, but throw thousands of people at the game and something is gonna break.... repeatedly.  Honestly it's just not the simple to make a game, and sure it might seem like one wording would be better and more clear, but odds are it just as buggered, and if you had thousands of people playing it some one is gonna break it. 

As far as FAQs are concerned. I don't expect thsoe to come out quickly, but they also can't do what they did before where they basically weren't making any. If you fix something too quickly and make the problem worse than everyone will hate your, etc.  So, i'm not mad at them for these small mistakes. 

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It's not always a problem with technical writing so much as technical reading.  If you take the rules to mean exactly what they say, no more and no less, then most of the problems go away.  Piling in twice, trees (lol look at me spreading topics around), even going back to the ancient days of the first month of AoS when people wondered if models with two weapons doubled the attacks - almost all of the confusion comes out of reading more into a rule than what is written based on pre-existing expectations, whether from how old editions worked, or how other things work in the current edition.

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