2000 Stormcast List - Competitive to the Max

[Galamund]

Hey all,

I didn't want to take up space in the Stormcast thread and so I thought I'd instead pitch this list to the widest range of folks potentially interested in this subject, on the Order forum. So here's what I think is an extremely competitive Stormcast list is at 2k. I'll explain the idea after, but the list is:

2000/2000

Lord-Arcanum Astreiea Solbright with Mount Trait: Pride Leader,  Azyrite Halo
Lord-Celestant Gabriel Sureheart
Lord-Castellant with Gryph-Hound and God-forged Hammer
Knight-Incantor with Celestial Blades

20 Sequitors with 9 Greatmaces
5 Judicators with Shockbolt Bow, 4 Skybolt Bows
5 Judicators with Shockbolt Bow, 4 Skybolt Bows

10 Evocators with 5 Tempest Staves, 5 Grandstaves, Empower, Speed of Lightning
5 Evocators with 5 Tempest Staves, Empower, Speed of Lightning

10 Skinks with Boltspitters, Star-bucklers
10 Skinks with Boltspitters, Star-bucklers

It is based on a well-screened (by the 20 Skinks) unit of 20 Sequitors, totally buffed by the LA and the 5 Evocators. The 20 Skinks, 20 Sequitors, 5 Evocators, Solbright and Castellant all start on the table. The Judicators wait to arrive to strike at the target I fear fighting in hand to hand, and Gavriel and 10 Evocators wait to hit the most important target in my enemy's army. The biggest weakness is having to wait to turn 2, to have 2 Command Points, and then be able to strike with the +6 to Charge, but in every game I've played where I got Gavriel and the Evocators into the key target... I win. If the opponent screens well, it's a different story, but 10 Evocators can murder almost everything. I've even murdered Nagash in an alpha-strike when he was unscreened and I was able to hit him with the 10 Judicators and 10 Evocators... so it can't be bad.

The more nitty-gritty:

I use Astreia on the Dracoline beause I'm 20pts shy of being able to use the regular LAoGC - my ideal list is 2020. He's better but she lets me take all the other units I want, so she's the choice. I miss healing and the Hammers Command Trait of the 6+ FNP, but she at least has the key Command Ability to make the Sequitors better. She can also take the Mount Trait to hit on 2+ so she actually packs a punch in melee.

The Sequitors are the main core and they get buffed to the nines: either just a 3+ reroll thanks to the Castellant, or if I get Empower on them, full rerolls if I also get Empower on them via a CP from Astreia. They're invincible I've found so far, and only die to mass MW. They get robustly screened by 20 Skinks, who I'm using increasingly effectively to screen out turn 1 charges from big scary units.

The 10 Judicators:  sniper death that also fill Battleline and I've taken them since mid 2016 and won't stop now. The potential to catch a lousy realm rule and losing shooting sucks, but that also has the potential to shutter scary enemy Wizards so I'll live with it. In games where they work, they murder enemy Heroes or Behemoths. I love taking 10 and am fearful the game will evolve where I can't.

10 Evocators deepstrike along with Gavriel Sureheart: When I get 2CP and can make them (almost) autocharge onto a key target, I have to be brutally honest: I win the game. If my opponent is clever and screens their big target it becomes tougher, but you can shoot or fight through screens by turn 3 and can wait a bit to drop the hammer. I've yet to get truly lucky with the Evocators MW roll - no 15+ result yet - but still... my opponents taking large, durable models fear that and respect the possible death from above that Gavriel and Co. offer.

Beyond that, I have 5 Battleline units, 4 heroes, 3 heroes who are either Wizards or possess a Relic for that particular mission, 2 Wizards given that we're playing with Realm Rules and thus Wizards have like 7 spells and thus are amazing... there is so much to consider!!!

What are your thoughts? Thank you SO much for reading my giant nerd post.

[Freejack02]

23 minutes ago, Galamund said:

Lord-Celestant with Gryph-Hound and God-forged Hammer

Do you mean Castellant here? The Celestant doesn't come with a gryph hound.

24 minutes ago, Galamund said:

10 Sequitors deepstrike along with Gavriel Sureheart:

I think you mean Evocators, not Sequitors.

My problem with the list is that you are waiting to try and build up your nova - I think an alpha strike list needs to put aside extra points if it needs the Command Points early. Waiting til turn 2 can easily give up all objectives to your opponent, and with an elite low-model-count army you are going to be playing catchup all game. Yes you hit hard, but you'll have to hit hard AND have enough bodies to claim objectives. I'd probably deploy the heavy hitters in the sky (Gavriel, 20 Seqs, 10 Evocs) - but it really depends on the scenario I suppose. I know that of the several games of 2.0 I've played, using Scions to take points early was the key to winning. 

[Galamund]

Goodness gracious, too many beers before posting! Forgive me. Both your corrections are accurate. It's a Lord-Castellant to give the 20 Sequitors a 3+ rerolling, and 10 Evocators deepstriking along with Sureheart.

I appreciate your thoughts. You're definitely right about the major liability of the list. Cunning opponents can screen me or can wait me out to turn 2. I hate it, but the alternative is dropping a unit of 60pt Skinks, and letting my Sequitors potentially take it on the chin! I love making some scary ground-based alpha-strike get bogged down in the Skinks. You are right, though, the Sureheart + Invocators alpha-strike doesn't always work. It would be far better with a CP or two in the bank initially, but I can't think what I'd drop to get it!

[Oglok]

How do you play your seauitors? Maces or swords? Thnx

[Galamund]

5 hours ago, Oglok said:

How do you play your seauitors? Maces or swords? Thnx

Thanks for the question! Right now, with Stormsmite Mauls since I got the Soulstrike boxes. I know the swords are more efficient when properly buffed, but I haven't gotten around to making the conversion. I'd like to if I could get my hands on enough cheap third party swords though! In practice I'm not too worried about the marginal loss of killing power since they are so rarely swinging. I usually deploy the unit in two ranks, ten across, with all the Greatmaces in the front row. This means it's typically only a few guys armed with Mauls slipping around the enemy's flank, or being flanked themselves.

[Oglok]

I've got my normal box of sequitors yesterday, there are enough spare swords to convert models from starter. The biggest issue - no big maces for primes.

[schwabbele]

You wrote +6 to charge - that means you fire gavriels ability 2 times.

can we do that  ?

[Gottkaiser]

Yes, we can. The ne FAQ explicitly states that Gavriels Ability stacks...

[Galamund]

10 hours ago, Oglok said:

I've got my normal box of sequitors yesterday, there are enough spare swords to convert models from starter. The biggest issue - no big maces for primes.

How many swords come in the 10-man box?

 

7 hours ago, Gottkaiser said:

Yes, we can. The ne FAQ explicitly states that Gavriels Ability stacks...

Yes, and the best sort of FAQ too! It doesn't allow it by omission, but rather explicitly says you can use it multiple times.

As Freejack02 wrote above though, I think a big liability is having to wait to T2 to drop in the Evocators and Gabriel. That said, in practice, against a good opponent it is going to be rare where on T1 you can hit  what you want so I am not terribly worried. Losing out on a T1 drop is only good against mediocre opponents who give you an opening. That said, every turn of the game I have 1/4 of my army waiting and doing nothing is a troublesome waste...

[Oglok]

2 hours ago, Galamund said:

How many swords come in the 10-man box?

14 (including 4 for primes) + 2 to be hanging from belt.

[American Raptor]

Evocators seem insane. Is there ever a reason to take  Retributors?

The Sequitors seem to have made the Liberators obselete too  

I don’t play much so I may be way off  

I should buy more of these

 

 

 

 

[Freejack02]

32 minutes ago, American Raptor said:

Evocators seem insane. Is there ever a reason to take  Retributors?

The Sequitors seem to have made the Liberators obselete too  

I don’t play much so I may be way off

You're not wrong, Evocators are just plain better than Paladins. I think they were given too many mortal wounds on top of already good combat profiles and being wizards... would be surprised if they aren't adjusted down the line. Unless you want to run a battalion that requires Paladins, take Evocators instead. 

[Galamund]

On 8/5/2018 at 7:45 PM, American Raptor said:

Absolutely beautiful models! I love them - simple, clean and elegant.

As for the discussion of Paladins vs Evocators, that's been beaten to death but the good ones start with 'E'...

 

[Ivanelis]

Just a remark: Gabriel forces you to choose hammer of Sigmar so you have to select the artefact and general ability accordingly. 

Otherwise I really like the list! 

[Galamund]

On 8/10/2018 at 5:56 PM, Ivanelis said:

Just a remark: Gabriel forces you to choose hammer of Sigmar so you have to select the artefact and general ability accordingly. 

Otherwise I really like the list! 

Yep, it's too bad but that's the price you pay to get a near-auto charge. I wish I could go without any Stormhost, but taking a mediocre relic and a semi-alright Command Trait is worth it for an auto-charge with 10 Evocators. With Solbright, I lose out on even the Command Trait! But that's a problem of being tight on points, and I digress.

Regarding Freejack02's earlier comment, he's been proved to be spot on in the games I've played since I posted this list. Not starting with a CP in the bank hasn't specifically lost me any games, but it is a big liability and definitely prevents the knockout punch being delivered turn 1. I could drop a unit of 10 Skinks, but having the 20 to bubblewrap the 20 Sequitors has saved my ass from getting smoked by other turn 1 melee alpha strikes multiple times so I think it's better.

[Freejack02]

11 minutes ago, Galamund said:

Yep, it's too bad but that's the price you pay to get a near-auto charge. I wish I could go without any Stormhost, but taking a mediocre relic and a semi-alright Command Trait is worth it for an auto-charge with 10 Evocators. With Solbright, I lose out on even the Command Trait! But that's a problem of being tight on points, and I digress.

Regarding Freejack02's earlier comment, he's been proved to be spot on in the games I've played since I posted this list. Not starting with a CP in the bank hasn't specifically lost me any games, but it is a big liability and definitely prevents the knockout punch being delivered turn 1. I could drop a unit of 10 Skinks, but having the 20 to bubblewrap the 20 Sequitors has saved my ass from getting smoked by other turn 1 melee alpha strikes multiple times so I think it's better.

Have any opponents used the first turn delay on your alpha to further screen you away from everything important? As soon as someone sees your list, they should deploy properly to not get scions'd into oblivion - but not everyone does it effectively enough. If you give them an extra turn to do so, however, I imagine nearly any opponent is going to really throw a wrench in your target selection. I see you dropping down and having to charge skinks/horrors/reavers/whatever chaff quite a bit of the time. 

Interested to know how it goes, I haven't run Gavriel myself yet just because I'm really afraid that if I start using him I won't be able to turn down the luxury in any future list.