Any Generals Handbook clarifications?

[amysrevenge]

Well, I still disagree on the pedantic point (I think it *is* clear in the rules that you don't move terrain out of the way for any reason), but fully agree on the actual outcome where it matters.  So I guess that's the internet in a nutshell then?  lol

[Soup Dragon]

This is more of a clarification than a FAQ as such, but with regard to summoning and army rosters, my understanding is that if I wish to have a summoning pool, then on the army roster I submit I put down the units that I am going to deploy (say 1500 in a 2000 point tournament), and declare I have a pool of 500 points to summon. I do NOT state the units I am going to summon, and I can have a large box of summonable models with me and choose which ones I intend to summon when I roll for the spell. Thus summoning is in a small way like having a side board. Is that right?

I play Destruction so it's not directly relevant to my army, but my oppo's will have summoning and I want to be clear how it works.

[Nico]

One way of perhaps resolving the 6 month old tree debate is to note that we measure to base and so if the base would fit, them the model can fit. You could swap in an empty base for a model. Then the base would just have to navigate the trunks.

Just in case you're interested, Destruction can summon Elementals from the Monstrous Arcanum.

[Soup Dragon]

Another clarification I have, is about allegiances and command abilities/artefacts/spell lores. So far as I can see the rules are that you choose your Allegiance at the start of each GAME, however I cannot see anywhere that says when you choose the command abilities/artefacts/spell lores. Presumably and logically it is partly determined by choice of Allegiance and so is immediately after choosing you allegiance. So at a multigame tournament does that mean you can change your Allegiance each game and change your command abilities/artefacts/spell lores each game too? Or do you stick to the same ones through the tournament?

Also the rules say 'Pick the trait that best suits your general's personality. Alternatively you can roll a dice....' I guess that means in straight play we choose what we want rather than rolling?

[Soup Dragon]

2 minutes ago, Nico said:

Just in case you're interested, Destruction can summon Elementals from the Monstrous Arcanum.

Yeah, I've taken them to 2 tournaments and summoned both over the course of 10 games. Not easy to do on an 11, but fun when it goes off!

[Terry Pike]

2 minutes ago, Soup Dragon said:

Another clarification I have, is about allegiances and command abilities/artefacts/spell lores. So far as I can see the rules are that you choose your Allegiance at the start of each GAME, however I cannot see anywhere that says when you choose the command abilities/artefacts/spell lores. Presumably and logically it is partly determined by choice of Allegiance and so is immediately after choosing you allegiance. So at a multigame tournament does that mean you can change your Allegiance each game and change your command abilities/artefacts/spell lores each game too? Or do you stick to the same ones through the tournament?

Also the rules say 'Pick the trait that best suits your general's personality. Alternatively you can roll a dice....' I guess that means in straight play we choose what we want rather than rolling?

You just pick what you want. "Theme" it to justify it if you really want to lol.

[Soup Dragon]

Just now, Terry Pike said:

You just pick what you want. "Theme" it to justify it if you really want to lol.

That's what I thought - just wanted it confirmed from an authority figure, but I guess you'll do Terry!!

I trust your "theme" will be Filth

[amysrevenge]

4 minutes ago, Soup Dragon said:

Yeah, I've taken them to 2 tournaments and summoned both over the course of 10 games. Not easy to do on an 11, but fun when it goes off!

Oh snap - Grot Shaman (Moonclan edition) get a +2 to cast...  9 is so much easier than 11.  I might need to look at this.  Never even thought of it before now.

[Terry Pike]

9 minutes ago, Soup Dragon said:

authority figure,

This I am not, I'm 31 and can barely look after myself lol.

My theme is winning, which is usually filth!

[Soup Dragon]

16 minutes ago, amysrevenge said:

Oh snap - Grot Shaman (Moonclan edition) get a +2 to cast...  9 is so much easier than 11.  I might need to look at this.  Never even thought of it before now.

That's exactly how I did it, plus arcane terrain means summon on an 8 which is very do-able. Some events even allow scenery scrolls, so I summon a vortex for an extra +1 to cast. Stand next to arcane terrain, summon a vortex, eat a mushroom and you've got an even chance of summoning an Incarnate! Just a pity they aren't that good in game :-) but they are COOL and that's important too

[mmimzie]

 

 

 

dsfsdsdsdfsdfsdf An awesomely powerful necromancer walkers into the thread and raises these post questions from the deepist darkest depths of post history.... ~ 16 hours ago.

14 hours ago, Terry Pike said:

Is sudden death used in matched play? If so can I use it to auto win turn 1 every game at the Warlords event?!

16 hours ago, The Jabber Tzeentch said:

Why can't they do decent proofreading before releasing a book?! Seriously it's getting ridiculous now almost every book has required FAQ. 

First question: are individual artefacts allowed to be equipped multiple times on different heroes? Currently nothing saying you can't but they would seem to be unique. 

Second question: are the Glorious Victory and Sudden Death Victory rules from the main rules used in the pitched battle Battleplans? They don't explicitly say like most other battleplans. 

13 hours ago, James McPherson said:

+1 are sudden death rules used in matched play

+1 can same artifacts be taken multiple times on different heroes

Also the combining unit thing, does it have to be 3 separate battleline units of 10 or can it be one combined unit of 30

11 hours ago, Nico said:

It seems fairly obvious that sudden death doesn't apply from the context (matched play) but it could be spelled out.

Drumroll please... and the answer is..... 

[Nico]

Some utter killjoy applied the third Rule of One to Arkhan's Hand of Dust Spell. Sadly, the FB page actually agreed tentatively with him (and sadly that's what the rule would naturally do - so you only get to roll to 5s). So that's 3 nerfs to Arkhan and counting (summoning, rule of one on his double casting and now his unique spell - which wasn't even that good in the first place - it's an average of 4 mortal wounds, but it will underperform that most of the time). The brevity of the rules of one is admirable but the crushing (Tomb Kings, Beastmen) and stealth nerfs they generate are frustrating.

Same principle for Foot of Gork (and Blood Boil). None of these spells are overpowered.

[Nico]

Can you use "Substitute" Warscrolls in your army (the ones at the end of the PDFs) at the same cost as the corresponding Warscrolls?

[Terry Pike]

6 hours ago, mmimzie said:

Drumroll please... and the answer is..... 

The best thing is, that isn't even a proper answer. You shouldn't need to, which implies the rules are in play but you don't have to use them lol

[Jamie Ferguson]

I've a question about victory conditions. 

What happens when you table your opponent at a point in the game when they have a higher objective score than you? Who wins?

 

What follows below is why I think the question is relevant. Sorry it's a bit long.

Page 4 of rules say you score a major victory if your opponent has no models left in their army. The handbook on page 4 says you use the rules in addition to the battle plans unless the battle plan states otherwise. Seems simple, you table your opponent, you win. There's possibly a problem though...

The comment above from 'age of Sigmar' asks us just to use the victory conditions on the battle plans to avoid sudden death. Does that also rule out a tabling victory?

This worries me as I don't like the idea of tabling someone who still beats you because they have a higher score, this leads to murky tactics where you can win by scoring early and then having your army 'suicide' itself by attacking horrible stuff, dying and robbing your opponent of the chance to score back by ending the game early. Then it leads to discussion about 'do models HAVE to attack?' Then games where people don't attack each other for fear of wiping things out. That's the sort of discussion that has me looking for 40k podcasts  

 

 

[Nico]

Quote

Then it leads to discussion about 'do models HAVE to attack?'

The general FAQs clarified that you don't have to attack in the combat phase, the 20 Retributors with +4 to their saves (Mystic Shield and 3 lanterns) and Shield of Thorns can go back in its box now.

My understanding is that the Minor and Major Victory conditions in these Battleplans are meant to be exclusive. Allowing people to win by tabling encourages a style of play of ignoring the objectives and just smashing stuff (says the person bringing 5 Monstrous Arcanum monsters to a Tournament... - last roll of the dice for an SCGT-designed army).

[Terry Pike]

14 minutes ago, Jamie Ferguson said:

Then it leads to discussion about 'do models HAVE to attack?'

"Any unit that has charged or has models within 3" of an enemy unit can attack with its melee weapons in the combat phase."

Can attack, implying you don't have to attack. Seems straight forward but then is made grey by the following line of text

"The player whose turn it is picks a unit to attack with, then the opposing player must attack with a unit, and so on until all eligible units on both sides have attacked once each."

Now its saying you must attack. So you can attack, but then must attack. Again probably needs an FAQ or house rule  Would appear its already been FAQ'd to say attacking is optional

[Nico]

I think our posts crossed, it has been clarified in the normal FAQ Page 4 (not the General's Handbook FAQ). You don't have to attack.

[Jamie Ferguson]

So are you feeling that if your opponent has a higher score and you table them, you lose?

[Nico]

It might seem weird, but there is a fluffy concept (in the real world too) of a "suicide mission", which can by definition succeed even if everyone dies.

[Nico]

I thought I had posed this question already, but will some/all "Campaign" formations (e.g. from the Realmgate Wars books) be pointed up in a future release?

[Terry Pike]

So are we saying in matched play we ignore the the Glorious Victory rules?

GLORIOUS VICTORY
In the Mortal Realms battles are brutal and uncompromising – they are fought to the bitter end, with one side able to claim victory because it has destroyed its foe or there are no enemy models left on the field of battle. The victor can immediately claim a major victory and the honours and triumphs that are due to them, while the defeated must repair to their lair to lick their wounds and bear the shame of failure.

This surely means if your opponent has no models currently on the table or you have destroyed them all you claim the Major Victory and win.

[yarrickson]

9 minutes ago, Terry Pike said:

So are we saying in matched play we ignore the the Glorious Victory rules?

GLORIOUS VICTORY
In the Mortal Realms battles are brutal and uncompromising – they are fought to the bitter end, with one side able to claim victory because it has destroyed its foe or there are no enemy models left on the field of battle. The victor can immediately claim a major victory and the honours and triumphs that are due to them, while the defeated must repair to their lair to lick their wounds and bear the shame of failure.

This surely means if your opponent has no models currently on the table or you have destroyed them all you claim the Major Victory and win.

But we don't fight to the bitter end. We play 5 turns?

I don't know, half the battle plans out there say not to use the 'glorious victory' rule in lieu of whatever is in the battle plan. The other half say to definitely use it. The issue is, in the matched play battle plans themselves it does not say either. 

There is a half hearted 'use all rules' section at the start of the handbook, but that is superseded in most of the other battle plans not in the matched play section. 

If we take that as our ruling, then we end up with: 

Scoring mission from battle plan= major victory

Wiping an opponent= major victory

Achieving sudden death= major victory

Killing more stuff= minor victory

Possibility of a draw

And the wtf situation where both players have met a major victory condition because one has outscored and the other has wiped out? 

This all boils down to GW being annoyingly unclear, and their online guy giving shop staff levels of "whatever you like, roll a dice, have fun' answers to questions. Bring back da roolz boyz. 

 

[Dangermouse425]

1 hour ago, Nico said:

I thought I had posed this question already, but will some/all "Campaign" formations (e.g. from the Realmgate Wars books) be pointed up in a future release?

I hope so!

[The Jabber Tzeentch]

So are we saying in matched play we ignore the the Glorious Victory rules?

GLORIOUS VICTORY

In the Mortal Realms battles are brutal and uncompromising – they are fought to the bitter end, with one side able to claim victory because it has destroyed its foe or there are no enemy models left on the field of battle. The victor can immediately claim a major victory and the honours and triumphs that are due to them, while the defeated must repair to their lair to lick their wounds and bear the shame of failure.

This surely means if your opponent has no models currently on the table or you have destroyed them all you claim the Major Victory and win.

By the fact they have explicitly left out the disclaimer that normally precedes the victory conditions on battleplans I would say sudden death and glorious victory rules do indeed apply.

However I expect this is likely to be an oversight as using the sudden death victory working on model count when you both have a pointed army list doesn't seem right.

And as its been mentioned if you can just win your battles by wiping out the enemy army it would lead to very specific tournament builds being dominant. I would expect most tournaments to rule that Glorious Victory and Sudden Death rules do not apply.