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Avatar Rage

Noobranomicon (Beginners guide to Death)

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26 minutes ago, Cursed said:

you really like the deathmarch battalion! ahah! xD

 

I'm just wondering why you want that much to move a few units 4'' more? if your opponent is castling as you said, he will surely be too far for a turn one charge. While with legion of night, (ambushers + cogs) you have a very good chance of charging 4 morghast harbingers turn 1 and also a good chance of charging 40 skeletons. As I see it legion of night accomplish the same thing as deathmarch but with better result while also saving 160pts. Also skeletons in cover with 3+ save against rend ''-'' are just so tanky! :)

Well I suppose it’s more accurate to say I love the idea of the Deathmarch and I love theory crafting around it. 

Today I just got the Black Knights so I actually haven’t been able to play it at all yet. Mostly I just wanted to see how it would fair, but you bring up a lot of good points too. 

I’ll probably go with your suggestion. 

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6 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

I love the idea of the Deathmarch 

And it is a cool idea, and as @ianob showed at facehammer a valid option, if done right...

But a turteling opponent wants you to rush his castle. So what to do about it?! If you can alpha strike hard enough to crack the shell, all good.

With your strategy, your whole army will be in range to get shot to pieces. iirc ianob just charged his monster block of blackknights into his opponents.

the tactics behind the LoN approach is similar, keep your opponent busy for 2-3 rounds dealing with the ambush, while you ramp up victory points. After that he has round 4 and 5 to push you off the objectives, that’s a tricky undertaking against undead...

Sooo... whatever you choose to do, shave some duardin beards, and keep us updated

;-D

Edited by Honk
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11 hours ago, Honk said:

And it is a cool idea, and as @ianob showed at facehammer a valid option, if done right...

But a turteling opponent wants you to rush his castle. So what to do about it?! If you can alpha strike hard enough to crack the shell, all good.

With your strategy, your whole army will be in range to get shot to pieces. iirc ianob just charged his monster block of blackknights into his opponents.

the tactics behind the LoN approach is similar, keep your opponent busy for 2-3 rounds dealing with the ambush, while you ramp up victory points. After that he has round 4 and 5 to push you off the objectives, that’s a tricky undertaking against undead...

Sooo... whatever you choose to do, shave some duardin beards, and keep us updated

;-D

Well here’s an update. 

I brought this list: 

Allegiance: Death
Mortal Realm: Ghur

Leaders
Wight King with Baleful Tomb Blade(120)
- General
- Mount: Steed
- Trait: Lord of Nagashizzar  
- Artefact: Gryph-feather Charm 
Vampire Lord (140)
- Mount: Flying Horror
- Artefact: Balefire Lantern  
- Lore of the Vampires: Vile Transference
Necromancer (110)
- Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming Dread

Battleline
30 x Skeleton Warriors (240)
- Ancient Blades
10 x Skeleton Warriors (80)
- Ancient Blades
10 x Skeleton Warriors (80)
- Ancient Blades

Units
10 x Grave Guard (160)
- Great Wight Blades
5 x Black Knights (120)
2 x Morghast Harbingers (220)
- Spirit Halberds

Battalions
Deathmarch (160)

Endless Spells
Chronomantic Cogs (60)

Total: 1490 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 11
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 97
 

Skipping to the death at the 5th turn I tabled him and had every single unit at full strength. 

I failed to get Cogs off turn 1, my vampire lord couldn’t get it off :( 

Lord of Nagashizzar was really good. 

My skeletons actually never took damage and never saw combat, the Wight King and Black Knights took off without them first turn. 

Turn 1 I premeasured and decided to use VHDM, Lord of Bones and Blood Feast on my Black Knights who moved 16” anyway and were easily in range to charge turn 1. They pumped out 100 attacks wiping 2 units of Dwarves. My Morghasts charged turn 1 and wiped another leaving only Organ Guns on one flank. That entire side was destroyed by turn 3. At that point I had 11 victory points to his 5. 

The second highlight of the game is 10 Grave Guard with VHDM, Lord of Bones and Blood Feast layed waste to 20 crossbowmen. The Knights also did damage even unbuffed on the charge. 

Essentially I smashed turn 1 into his heavy fire power side as fast and hard as I couldn’t and ruined it quickly. I turn gathered up mid turn and moved to the other side of the board in a Deathball and ruined his other flank with BK and GG. 

Vile Transference is MVP taking my WK from 2 wounds back up to 4, and the -1 to hit artifact plus look out sir and good saves helped him out thereafter. 

I ended with double his victory points and tabled him for a total victory losing no units, with full models. 

I kept my 2 10 man skeleton squads home all game camping each objective on my side. I kept the Necromancer in the middle near the Cogs swapping between extra movement and extra spells. 

The VL followed the Deathball and provided support and heals, the Morghasts went on their own and just murdered stuff. 

Next time I’ll need to figure out what to do with my 30 block. The map prevented me from putting them in the grave, otherwise they probably would have seen combat. 

Next time I think I’ll use Legion of Sacrament. -1 attack overall but plus 3” movement and +1 spell cast. 

 

Edited by Ravinsild
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26 minutes ago, Ravinsild said:

I failed to get Cogs off turn 1,

I knew you would botch it... even the best plan and the most epic list can falter in the wrong hands.

 

XD

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1 hour ago, Honk said:

I knew you would botch it... even the best plan and the most epic list can falter in the wrong hands.

 

XD

I got cold and forgot the plan. 

Honestly he kept focusing on my Black Knights and wight King but between Gryph Feather Charm, heals, his innate good save, the -1 aura from the vampire lord thanks to the balefire lantern and everything.... 10 Grave Guard pulled their own weight with 100 attacks two combats in a row and another 80 the next combat. 

The first turn I used VHD on the BK which hit like a sledge hammer then died , I resummoned them with endless legion and they continued to be a focus. 

10 Grave Guard and 10 Black Knights actually just hurt. More would hurt more, but I wouldn’t discount low model count either. 

Between my Graveyard placement for Invogorating Aura, multiple Deadly Invocations and Legions Innumerable... it’s pretty easy to keep my GG at max. 

I also rolled super well when regenerating dead knights every time. In total he probably killed 15 but 3 out of 4 times my rolls were 2+ 

Edited by Ravinsild
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Yep, fully buffed up BK charge is a sight to behold...

especially when your opponent puts them down after a prolonged struggle and your answer is: ‘bout time... resummon, cogs, charge!!!

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8 minutes ago, Honk said:

Yep, fully buffed up BK charge is a sight to behold...

especially when your opponent puts them down after a prolonged struggle and your answer is: ‘bout time... resummon, cogs, charge!!!

That’s exactly what happened. I charged, wiped 2 units, they got wiped, next turn I summoned and charged again. 

If they had not died instead of 3/3/-/2 and 4/4/-/1 they would have been at 3/4/-/1 and 4/5/-/1.... lol. 

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Nighthaunt get a lot of abilities that are fairly interlinked. However I have split them into two categories where I will go over these lumped together abilities in detail. Part One will discuss abilities related to fear and bravery. While Part 2 will discuss the armies summoning mechanics.

 

Nighthaunt Abilities 1 - Smoke and Fears

 

The first set of abilities are a triple threat. First off we have Aura of Dread, which dishes out -1 to your enemy’s bravery when within 6” of you Nighthaunt units. Throw the second ability in Feed on Terror, which heals a mortal wound on a hero when an opponent fails a battleshock tests. Finally we have Wave of Terror, if you get an unmodified charge roll of 10+ then you may attack immediately. So lucky charge rolls give you two opportunities to damage a unit. If all goes well then you should leave them with a decent negative on their bravery, which is helped by Aura of Dread. Finally dominoing into a nice heal for your heroes.

Building on this you should also work in more bravery based Nighthaunt abilities. Lady Olyndyr, Banshees and the Shreiker Host battalion can really help drain your enemies in battleshock. Both Lady Olyndr and the Banshees have an ability that deals damage based on the difference between their bravery and your dice roll.  The Shrieker Host makes enemy units re-roll bravery rolls of 1, giving that batallions Banshee another chance to heal itself.. This is scary for Skaven and Greenskin players who have an every bravery of 4. 

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Nighthaunt Abilities 2 - From the Underworld

Okay we are going to be covering the summoning abilities of the Nighthaunt. The fist one you have to get to grips with is From the Underworld They Come. This let’s you keep your units back as reinforcements. You get one reinforcement unit per unit set up on the battlefield. You can can set these units up anywhere as long as it’s not within 9” of an enemy.

Next up there is the command ability spectral summons, which lets you remove a friendly unit from play and set it up again within 12” of your general. Much like the last ability you cannot set the unit up within 9” of the enemy.

Alone these abilities are not much to look at. They are simple and are used by some other armies. Rather they can be used to shuffle the decks if you set up first. Ideally you will want to make sure that your units are fighting what they excel at or to make a ghost shield around your general. Set up is essential for a Nighthaunt victory so I cannot stress enough to pick your battles.

Ultimately you must minimise your opponents choice in combat when playing Nighhaunt. Remember high rend against high armour units, big ethereal blobs against high rend targets and kill their low rend units quickly. If you can use these abilities to maintain this setup then you should be able to maintain the advantage in most scenarios.

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I'm creating a Nighthaunt Army base off of Soul Wars and want to expand it into a 2k list. I'm thinking of getting Tempest of Souls because I also play Stormcast, and also some Dreadblade Harrows and 1 or 2 boxes of Spirit Hosts. Mostly I'm being guided by the rule of cool. But do you have any other suggestions. This seemed like a good place to ask, thanks!

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15 hours ago, Nightcast Eternal said:

I'm creating a Nighthaunt Army base off of Soul Wars and want to expand it into a 2k list. I'm thinking of getting Tempest of Souls because I also play Stormcast, and also some Dreadblade Harrows and 1 or 2 boxes of Spirit Hosts. Mostly I'm being guided by the rule of cool. But do you have any other suggestions. This seemed like a good place to ask, thanks!

The rule of cool should always be your guiding force.  If you are thinking that building your Stormcast along side your Nighthaunt then go for it. Though your first bet should be to build up your Battleline. The quickest way to do this is through the Malignant box, but no the coolest.  But that is a unit of spirit hosts, hexwraiths and if you are happy doing conversions then you got 3 banshees too.   

The Soul Wars box is a a great starting point so whatever way you build from here is just fine.

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On 9/29/2018 at 3:08 PM, Ravinsild said:

I got cold and forgot the plan. 

Honestly he kept focusing on my Black Knights and wight King but between Gryph Feather Charm, heals, his innate good save, the -1 aura from the vampire lord thanks to the balefire lantern and everything.... 10 Grave Guard pulled their own weight with 100 attacks two combats in a row and another 80 the next combat. 

The first turn I used VHD on the BK which hit like a sledge hammer then died , I resummoned them with endless legion and they continued to be a focus. 

10 Grave Guard and 10 Black Knights actually just hurt. More would hurt more, but I wouldn’t discount low model count either. 

Between my Graveyard placement for Invogorating Aura, multiple Deadly Invocations and Legions Innumerable... it’s pretty easy to keep my GG at max. 

I also rolled super well when regenerating dead knights every time. In total he probably killed 15 but 3 out of 4 times my rolls were 2+ 

How do you get 100 attacks out of them ???  Lord of Bones and Blood Feast just ad 1 attack each.

Did you use several command points to buff them?

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2 hours ago, Kurrilino said:

How do you get 100 attacks out of them ???  Lord of Bones and Blood Feast just ad 1 attack each.

Did you use several command points to buff them?

2 x 10 is 20 + 1 Vampire Lord, +1 Wight King, +1 Lord of Nagashizzar = 5 attacks each for 50 attacks. 

They were under the effects of  Vanhel’s Danse Macbre. None of them were targeted or died due to combat priority. 

50 x 2 fights = 100 attacks. 

Edited by Ravinsild

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1 hour ago, Ravinsild said:

2 x 10 is 20 + 1 Vampire Lord, +1 Wight King, +1 Lord of Nagashizzar = 5 attacks each for 50 attacks. 

They were under the effects of  Vanhel’s Danse Macbre. None of them were targeted or died due to combat priority. 

50 x 2 fights = 100 attacks. 

Ahh i see.

I was under the impression you played 5 Black Knights.

My mistake. Thx for clarifying

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27 minutes ago, Kurrilino said:

Ahh i see.

I was under the impression you played 5 Black Knights.

My mistake. Thx for clarifying

I did both haha. Also Black Knights can get 100 attacks without Vanhel’s Danse Macabre. 

2 base for lance +1 Lord of Nagashizzar, +1 Wight King, +1 Vampire Lord is 5 attacks. Taking 10 Black Knights is 50 attacks, then the same applies to Horses Hooves and Teeth. If you Vanhel’s and nobody dies because they activate elsewhere or you get lucky saves you get another 100. Or it’s 100 total (25L + 25HHT x 2 VHD) if you run 5 and nobody dies before your second activation. 

Granted this is like a twice a game occurrence. 

I start with 2 CP and go big first turn. Next turn if I’m forced to Endless Legions something I’m getting base attacks plus +1 for whoever is near my general. 

Then it’s a matter of stockpiling CP to do it again. 

Edited by Ravinsild

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11 hours ago, Avatar Rage said:

The rule of cool should always be your guiding force.  If you are thinking that building your Stormcast along side your Nighthaunt then go for it. Though your first bet should be to build up your Battleline. The quickest way to do this is through the Malignant box, but no the coolest.  But that is a unit of spirit hosts, hexwraiths and if you are happy doing conversions then you got 3 banshees too.   

The Soul Wars box is a a great starting point so whatever way you build from here is just fine.

Awesome thanks! I will probably wait a bit, but am leaning towards getting Tempest of Souls. Thanks for the enorsement!

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I really want to build a death soup army for fluff reasons but what is the best battle line out of death's options. I want to avoid chainrasps because they are the most expensive to buy but if they are a lot better that the rest will consider. Leaders, which are the big fluff point, is a Vampire Lord and then either a tomb banshee or Lady Olyvander (I spelt that wrong didnt I).  Looking to return models to units so survivability is kinda important for that. Sorry if this is the wrong place to ask it just seemed better to start here than making a new thread.

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4 hours ago, Tohshi Ydithe said:

what is the best battle line out of death's options.

Wolves...

5 (10hp) for 60 points,

10“ range, 5+ save, 10 attacks 4+\4+, Summonable 

 

 

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On 10/15/2018 at 3:06 AM, Tohshi Ydithe said:

I really want to build a death soup army for fluff reasons but what is the best battle line out of death's options. I want to avoid chainrasps because they are the most expensive to buy but if they are a lot better that the rest will consider. Leaders, which are the big fluff point, is a Vampire Lord and then either a tomb banshee or Lady Olyvander (I spelt that wrong didnt I).  Looking to return models to units so survivability is kinda important for that. Sorry if this is the wrong place to ask it just seemed better to start here than making a new thread.

Zombie or Dire Wolf is your best bet for undead soups with LoN. Cheap, summonable and can be buffed. Fits everything you need. Throw in a corpse cart and necromancer, boom you your soup is now a stew.

Chainwrasp are best for Nighthaunt. It sucks they cost so much to buy so I would suggest going for LoN if that is the case.

Not much to say other than that really.

Edited by Avatar Rage
Added a bit more info
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I don't know if this is the right place to pose the question but I'm in a weird spot:  Brand new to AoS, but I played some fantasy a while ago. My only current problem is that  most of what I have is  Tomb Kings. I have a few other weird things like a Heinrich floating around. So What I'm wanting to know is how much of my stuff is still 'usable' (take to tournaments without too much hassle)?

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6 hours ago, mrgambit said:

how much of my stuff is still 'usable' 

Sadly TK got scratched and are not viable for bigger official events. 

If you have a nice local meta, you might try to get into the game using them and their compendium rules and points.

Since I don’t know what you really have in store, all the tomb guards can be graveguard, cavalry black knights and your Ushabdi can swing their blades morghast style size should fit. Heinrich sadly is a normal necromancer now...

so in a friendly environment you can progg a lot and use rule of cool. TK style deathrattle grand host list with tomb lord as wight king and sich to get an easy start. And have a cool and special looking army. Too bad for the chariots thou...

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On 10/22/2018 at 1:20 AM, Honk said:

Sadly TK got scratched and are not viable for bigger official events. 

If you have a nice local meta, you might try to get into the game using them and their compendium rules and points.

Since I don’t know what you really have in store, all the tomb guards can be graveguard, cavalry black knights and your Ushabdi can swing their blades morghast style size should fit. Heinrich sadly is a normal necromancer now...

so in a friendly environment you can progg a lot and use rule of cool. TK style deathrattle grand host list with tomb lord as wight king and sich to get an easy start. And have a cool and special looking army. Too bad for the chariots thou...

This makes me sad, but looking into a little more, At the very least I can scrounge something together that wouldn't be too far of a stretch.  As it stands,  I've got  40-some skeleton warriors,  archers, 20 tomb guard( although some of those are a problem cause they're mummies)  cavalry, mounted archers,  monsters like the giant and necrosphinx, and a variety of the usual lords & heroes.

Sounds like most of the flavourful stuff and anything with a  bow is out.  But at the very least, I can do a bit of what you said, Skeleton warriors will be fine, the horsemen doesn't look like too much of a stretch for  black knights, Tomb guard for grave guard. I might even have to try doing a tiny bit of playing around with one of my mounted tomb heralds and see about making that a wight king (gives me an excuse to fix the horribly unbalanced model anyways)

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12 hours ago, mrgambit said:

usual lords & heroes.

They can stand in as vamplords, necros or wightkings... pretty cool ?

you‘ll almost set for a deathmarch list if I guess correctly. 

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On 10/23/2018 at 7:16 PM, mrgambit said:

This makes me sad, but looking into a little more, At the very least I can scrounge something together that wouldn't be too far of a stretch.  As it stands,  I've got  40-some skeleton warriors,  archers, 20 tomb guard( although some of those are a problem cause they're mummies)  cavalry, mounted archers,  monsters like the giant and necrosphinx, and a variety of the usual lords & heroes.

Sounds like most of the flavourful stuff and anything with a  bow is out.  But at the very least, I can do a bit of what you said, Skeleton warriors will be fine, the horsemen doesn't look like too much of a stretch for  black knights, Tomb guard for grave guard. I might even have to try doing a tiny bit of playing around with one of my mounted tomb heralds and see about making that a wight king (gives me an excuse to fix the horribly unbalanced model anyways)

Your skeletons will give you a nice backbone for your army. Those Tomb Guard will make excellent Grave Guard, most people should not have a problem with it as long as the points are spent and you make it clear what they are being used as. Same with the horsemen, necrosphinx and bone giant (the latter two could be terrorgeighst and morgast).

Alternatively you could throw in a bit of light conversion on a necrosphinx or khemrian warsphinx to make some unique mortis engines. 

I regualarly use the Tomb King models as Wight Kings and Tomb Queens as Necromancers.

You can also throw in Arkhan or Nagash as your general for a wonderfully themed army.

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Thanks Avatar Rage, this is really helpful. Just starting my own death army out of the soil wars box, plus got a tomb banshee and myrmourn banshees too. 

Just deciding on whether to pick up Lady Olyander next, or some Hexwraith. Or crawlocke. Or possibly dreadblade harrows. Or Reikenor..............

*sigh*

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