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Noobranomicon (Beginners guide to Death)

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4 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

just any suggestions for this map

Hit fast and hard... against slaanesh I guess you’ll need sturdy units. 10 GG or skellis won’t survive the first melee...

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I got a question regarding skeleton warriors. It states models in this unit may be standard bearers... so my question is since it does not state how many can it be all? Does the standard bearer have no weapon profile or does he use the units weapon profile? It makes sense if he doesnt so you get to choose between an attacking skelly and  a bearer but if he does, wouldnt it make more sense to all be standard bearer beside the leader and hornblower since u get a bigger -bravery range. Also on this, does the hornblower have an attack profile like the rest?

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37 minutes ago, Vyrullax said:

how many can it be all?

Beware of the flagwaving marching brass band...!!!

4 banners, 5 musicians and a champion, kinda crazy but possible. Especially if you built your skellis in 10s with full command of course you get redundancy when fielding 40. Since the banners don’t stack and when you securely declare the unit champ, all is well.

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9 minutes ago, Honk said:

Beware of the flagwaving marching brass band...!!!

4 banners, 5 musicians and a champion, kinda crazy but possible. Especially if you built your skellis in 10s with full command of course you get redundancy when fielding 40. Since the banners don’t stack and when you securely declare the unit champ, all is well.

Oh i was thinking mainly because it states the banner effect is 6' from the model so wouldnt it make more sense mechanic wise to have more banners so ur range is wider? Or is there a limit? I would assume it makes more logical sense to have 1 or 2 banners but have the range be counted from the unit instead of the banner so as long the banner is alive its fine.

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13 minutes ago, Vyrullax said:

Or is there a limit?

Like I said, no limit in the rules... 2-3 sprinkled throughout the unit possible and makes sense

Edited by Honk

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I would love to solicit some advice or criticism on the LoN army I plan on building toward, I have 40k experience but Never played AOS, I originally wanted a LoB style double dragon. Lost with blood Knights, but the models are so expensive and it seems like GW is moving away from supporting them with the rules. 

 

Leaders: 

Mannfred =420

Prince Vhordrai =480

Battleline

5 direwolves x 3 = 180

Cavalry:

Black knights x 10 = 240

Black knight x 10 = 240

Allies:

Black coach = 280

Hex wraiths = 160

= 2000 points

I like the idea of a vanguard force of tough but disposable knights sweeping up the field to hopefully tie down threats before hammering them with the prince or mannfred. The black coach and hexwraiths can scoot around and hopefully gobble up softer targets until the coach reaches enough evocation levels to cause some real damage. 

 

Im a little worried by the relative fragility of mannfred but I hope that I have enough threats  and screens that he will not be completely saturated. I love his command ability, and as a space marines player re reolling  ones is in my DNA. I think the black coach and hexwraiths may be a weak point, but they do have some synergy with each other and mannfred. I think the objective game is weak for me but I hear good things about the effectiveness of direwolves. 

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24 minutes ago, thefishbone said:

I would love to solicit some advice or criticism on the LoN army I plan on building toward, I have 40k experience but Never played AOS, I originally wanted a LoB style double dragon. Lost with blood Knights, but the models are so expensive and it seems like GW is moving away from supporting them with the rules. 

 

Leaders: 

Mannfred =420

Prince Vhordrai =480

Battleline

5 direwolves x 3 = 180

Cavalry:

Black knights x 10 = 240

Black knight x 10 = 240

Allies:

Black coach = 280

Hex wraiths = 160

= 2000 points

I like the idea of a vanguard force of tough but disposable knights sweeping up the field to hopefully tie down threats before hammering them with the prince or mannfred. The black coach and hexwraiths can scoot around and hopefully gobble up softer targets until the coach reaches enough evocation levels to cause some real damage. 

 

Im a little worried by the relative fragility of mannfred but I hope that I have enough threats  and screens that he will not be completely saturated. I love his command ability, and as a space marines player re reolling  ones is in my DNA. I think the black coach and hexwraiths may be a weak point, but they do have some synergy with each other and mannfred. I think the objective game is weak for me but I hear good things about the effectiveness of direwolves. 

What leads you to believe they are moving away from supporting Blood Knights in the rules? 

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Well, I don’t claim to have been for a long time, or have any special insight, but the models are beyond dated  and very hard to find(although they still look quite good to me) and it seems that from fantasy the current edition GW have slowly been eroding their effectiveness. All things considered however, it does seem like GW gives more legacy support to AoS than 40k, so I may be off base.

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Well, first of all the list looks pretty solid.

And by solid I mean where the fluff is your fluffing necromancer??? Maybe reconsider the wraith or the coach. Charging black knights with van hels within mannis aura, friendship killers

manni and vhordi double tag teaming sounds like madness. Especially mannis CA with quickblood lets him 2+\2+ or 3+\2+ everything while rerolling 1s... 

meanwhile the wolves are laying on the objectives, licking their b@lls

 

love the list, hope it works

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I think only Tomb Kings and Bretonnians have been canned. Everything else, in my opinion, will be redone and brought into the modern times. It’s only a matter of time. 

After all AoS is far from their only game, and other things need to be updated too. Like 90% of Chaos space marine stuff.... the khorne bezerker kit is literally like 20 years old. 

They finally updated Dark Eldar and stuff. I just think it’s a waiting game. I doubt Blood Knights or vampires in general are going anywhere. 

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There was rumour some times ago for a Soulblight battletome! I don't think we will see it soon but I think it's the most propable next battletome for Death! But as I said since we got lots of new toys recently, GW will surely focus more on the other Grand Alliance for now! (Destruction really needs it!)

 

I would be reaaly thrill for a new and improve Vampire faction! (with new models I hope! :P)

 

2 hours ago, thefishbone said:

I would love to solicit some advice or criticism on the LoN army I plan on building toward, I have 40k experience but Never played AOS, I originally wanted a LoB style double dragon. Lost with blood Knights, but the models are so expensive and it seems like GW is moving away from supporting them with the rules. 

 

Leaders: 

Mannfred =420

Prince Vhordrai =480

Battleline

5 direwolves x 3 = 180

Cavalry:

Black knights x 10 = 240

Black knight x 10 = 240

Allies:

Black coach = 280

Hex wraiths = 160

= 2000 points

I like the idea of a vanguard force of tough but disposable knights sweeping up the field to hopefully tie down threats before hammering them with the prince or mannfred. The black coach and hexwraiths can scoot around and hopefully gobble up softer targets until the coach reaches enough evocation levels to cause some real damage. 

 

Im a little worried by the relative fragility of mannfred but I hope that I have enough threats  and screens that he will not be completely saturated. I love his command ability, and as a space marines player re reolling  ones is in my DNA. I think the black coach and hexwraiths may be a weak point, but they do have some synergy with each other and mannfred. I think the objective game is weak for me but I hear good things about the effectiveness of direwolves. 

Hexwraiths are not allies in Legions! ;) they have the all the Legions keywords so you can use all your buff/bonus on them!

Edited by Cursed
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Thank you for the feedback! With regards to the inclusion of a necromancer,  I would definitely love to get some double attack action going, and another regeneration source can only help,  but my only concern is that he will be very vulnerable and isolated since he won't be keeping up with any of the faster units. I'm still getting the hang of the rules, but my impression is that without a nearby blob he can get sniped fairly easily. If I drop something I think it would be the hexwraiths for a necromancer or possibly vampire, but if I dropped the coach I could beef up the black knights to units of 15. I don't have a good sense of how large the bases are, would a unit of 15 be too unwieldy to get all of them in base contact?

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Flesh Eater Delusions - Eat, Drink and Be Merry

Delusions are abilities that a Flesh Eater army can choose before the battle begins. They are the equivalent of Stormcast Chapters, something that gives certain bonuses to your army. However these are a bit watered down compared to their newer equivalents. Additionally they are not set in stone either, being chosen after set up rather than before the game begins.

I will be going over these with the Feeding Frenzy ability in mind. For those that need a refresher. When you finish you attacks and have killed an enemy model roll a dice, on a 6+ you can pile in and attack again. This second pile in cannot cause another feeding frenzy.

Now back to the delusions. These are officially chosen after set up but before the game begins. Once you have chosen you cannot change. However you are not set in stone when playing multiple games.

Delusions that stack with feeding frenzy modify a units attack value in some way. With the exception of The Feast Day, which allows you to re-roll the Feeding Frenzy dice rolls if you roll a 1. 

Royal Hunt reroll hit and wound rolls of 1 against monsters. Really useful against armies with priority targets, like chaos and lots of monsters like the Beastclaw Raiders.

A Matter of Honour allows you to reroll hits against heroes, if the hero is also a general then you may also reroll wounds. Hero heavy armies like Fyrslayers, Free Guilds and Death armies are great targets for this.

Grand tournament lets you reroll hit roll for friendly flesh eater heroes that are not your general. A good all rounder, chances are your heroes will kill something and trigger your frenzy. Having another shot at hitting these targets always helps. It’s great if you have a lot of cheap heroes.

Defenders of the Realm lets you reroll hit rolls of 1 within your territory. Another good all rounder. The usefulness of this delusion really depends on how big your territory is or how prominent it is during play. Defensive missions are made for this delusion, at least if you are the defender anyway.

Crusading Army allows you to reroll run and charge rolls. Does not stack at all Feeding Frenzy, but a wonderful gap closing ability. Those gangly little ghouls can get to those objectives. 

Knowing what Delusion works best in what scenario is particularly useful when your general has the trait Completely Delusional. This allows you to swap your Delusion once per battle. But most importantly you should keep them in mind when building your army.  I suggest building around one or two Delusions. This is a real time saver during play, but don't be afraid to swap it out in matches that are ill suited to your prepared delusion.
 

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14 hours ago, thefishbone said:

he won't be keeping up with any of the faster units.

I would still try it, positioning him in second rank, and after his casting he has to scoop up his skirt and dig the heels into the turf... then daisy chain back to 3“ if needed. So 5“+3“ move and run, with max 3“ daisy chain is 11“ max. movement and each body slogging is +2“ reach

or vortex for +6“ range and double spell ability. Will put a big bullseye on his forehead, but also take a lot of target pressure from the rest of your charging army

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I’m fighting a Dispossessed player this coming Saturday at 1500 points and I know his playstyle. I’ve beaten him with Khorne and Ironjawz. He generally likes to turtle up in his territory and protect his shooters, and pick me off from a distance. He forms a defensive wall around his shooters with basic Warriors then brings artillery in the very center and typically a Gyrocopter then has long beards support the shooting guys with -1 rend and like re-roll 1’s or maybe all missed hits. 

Every time he’s played he always just hunkers down and never moves, except when I go to sit on objectives then he moves just enough to be at max shooting distance and shoots me off the points so I have to go to him or he will kill everything and take the objectives. 

I’m wondering which legion to bring. Legion of Night I can ambush right into his territory, Grand Host with Cogs + Deathmarch I can run across and charge by turn 2 probably, and Sacrament same scenario. 

With Night I’ll never benefit from the bait save, he never moves his army unless it’s just enough to be at max shooting range to kill me off objectives, so I have to go to him to kill his shooters and keep some other guys on objectives. 

With GHoN I could bring Morghasts for the +1 attack and chance of free regeneration on top of Graveyards, Deathly Invocations and so forth. Plus my GG, BK and Skeletons would get +1 attack due to Lord of Nagashizzar, plus Wight King CA and Vampire Lord, so one of my units will be pooping attacks. 

With Sacrament I could just have slightly better spell casting, probably wouldn’t bring Morghasts and just more GG and BK and a super slim chance of regenerating a unit if they are dead... and I wipe one of his... and it’s near my own Graveyard like 6” near which seems unlikely... but I can go faster? 

So 2 out of 3 options give pretty good benefits (ambush or extra casting) and 2 that will probably not at all be useful, but GHoN gives 2 always on benefits as long as I roll well (5+) and bring Morghasts. 

I was thinking probably put my 40 man block in the grave of skeletons then summon them from the Graveyard and put the Graveyards near his typical turtle formation about 9” out. This gives the regeneration aura as well as good range to summon guys to crash into his little shell. 

I would just footslog my GG and BK with WK and VL ASAP across the board to engage him and spread out my 10 man Skellies to hit objectives and camp. 

Any recommendations?

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4 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

Any recommendations?

Legions of the night double mortis engine with terrorgheist or double gheist with mortis...

probably double gheist... target the heroes/artillery, next turn open reliquary for healing and more d3 mortals to everything around. With the AoE you can dish out 2d3 mortals to everything failing bravery, per round.

He goes first, pray for double and all his heroes are gone before he knew what hit him. Maybe even gheist, mortis aaaand 10 blackknights for sweet death banner (all his stuff suddenly has B6/7) and charge block 

 

same time at mission beach

???‍♀️?   ??  ?

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5 hours ago, Honk said:

Legions of the night double mortis engine with terrorgheist or double gheist with mortis...

probably double gheist... target the heroes/artillery, next turn open reliquary for healing and more d3 mortals to everything around. With the AoE you can dish out 2d3 mortals to everything failing bravery, per round.

He goes first, pray for double and all his heroes are gone before he knew what hit him. Maybe even gheist, mortis aaaand 10 blackknights for sweet death banner (all his stuff suddenly has B6/7) and charge block 

 

same time at mission beach

???‍♀️?   ??  ?

I don’t have double Mortis engines or two Terrorgheists.... :| 

Also Dwarves have a chance to auto-pass battleshock without spending a Command point so bravery debuffs are less effective against them. 

Edited by Ravinsild

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1 hour ago, Ravinsild said:

battleshock

It was more to reliably trigger the mortal wound effect to rolf-stomp the heroes...

Then I would almost recommend  a necromancer with 40 skellis and a vampire or something (10 blackknights) . Hold him back in a grind, till you win on objectives...

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37 minutes ago, Honk said:

It was more to reliably trigger the mortal wound effect to rolf-stomp the heroes...

Then I would almost recommend  a necromancer with 40 skellis and a vampire or something (10 blackknights) . Hold him back in a grind, till you win on objectives...

I suppose my original question was which Legion do you think is the best for that type of strategy? GHoN, LoS or LoN? 

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13 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

I’m fighting a Dispossessed player this coming Saturday at 1500 points and I know his playstyle. I’ve beaten him with Khorne and Ironjawz. He generally likes to turtle up in his territory and protect his shooters, and pick me off from a distance. He forms a defensive wall around his shooters with basic Warriors then brings artillery in the very center and typically a Gyrocopter then has long beards support the shooting guys with -1 rend and like re-roll 1’s or maybe all missed hits. 

Every time he’s played he always just hunkers down and never moves, except when I go to sit on objectives then he moves just enough to be at max shooting distance and shoots me off the points so I have to go to him or he will kill everything and take the objectives. 

I’m wondering which legion to bring. Legion of Night I can ambush right into his territory, Grand Host with Cogs + Deathmarch I can run across and charge by turn 2 probably, and Sacrament same scenario. 

With Night I’ll never benefit from the bait save, he never moves his army unless it’s just enough to be at max shooting range to kill me off objectives, so I have to go to him to kill his shooters and keep some other guys on objectives. 

With GHoN I could bring Morghasts for the +1 attack and chance of free regeneration on top of Graveyards, Deathly Invocations and so forth. Plus my GG, BK and Skeletons would get +1 attack due to Lord of Nagashizzar, plus Wight King CA and Vampire Lord, so one of my units will be pooping attacks. 

With Sacrament I could just have slightly better spell casting, probably wouldn’t bring Morghasts and just more GG and BK and a super slim chance of regenerating a unit if they are dead... and I wipe one of his... and it’s near my own Graveyard like 6” near which seems unlikely... but I can go faster? 

So 2 out of 3 options give pretty good benefits (ambush or extra casting) and 2 that will probably not at all be useful, but GHoN gives 2 always on benefits as long as I roll well (5+) and bring Morghasts. 

I was thinking probably put my 40 man block in the grave of skeletons then summon them from the Graveyard and put the Graveyards near his typical turtle formation about 9” out. This gives the regeneration aura as well as good range to summon guys to crash into his little shell. 

I would just footslog my GG and BK with WK and VL ASAP across the board to engage him and spread out my 10 man Skellies to hit objectives and camp. 

Any recommendations?

just use the prismatic palisade and laugh at him while he can't target anything behind! ;) and since he's dispossessed he has no way of dispelling the wall without allies!

 

also just take a lot of skeletons daisy chaining to a bunch of necros behind the wall in the middle of the board, he won't kill the necros with his shooting and there's not a lot of armies who can kill 120+ skeletons! :P he will have to come to you and since you have the objectives you should have a big lead in victory points! If you feel really evil replace one or 2 units of skeleton for 30 grimghast! 

Edited by Cursed
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3 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

original question was which Legion do you think is the best for that type of strategy?

Well... I guess LoN if you feel aggressive, LoS if you feel like magic, GHoN if you’re not quite sure.

artifact wise the Diadem could be good... since you already know the playstyle and quirks of your opponent, you have to decide what will break him. 

1 hour ago, Cursed said:

just use the prismatic palisade

What a mean cheap trick, beautiful.

and as he said, maybe deathmarch your units onto the objectives, daisy chain back to safety and after three rounds of exclusive scoring, it’s: well I wiped him but still lost if all goes banana.

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Well so far what I have in my collection is: 

60 Skeletons (20 are unbuilt) 

10 Grave Guard with sword and shield 

10 Grave Guard with 2-handed weapons

15 Black Knights (5 are built rest are on sprues) 

1 Mortis Engine/Coven Throne/Bloodseeker Palanquin Kit (not sure which to build but I guess I’ll build the one I like and counts as in the future) 

3 Spirit Hosts 

2 Neferata 

1 Mannfred (unbuilt)

1 Arkhan (unbuilt) 

4 Morghasts 

2 Wight King

1 Vampire Lord 

1 Necromancer 

my endless spells are on the way in the mail, as is my GHB and rulebook physical copies. 

Ive got a corpse cart on the way in the mail, a Necromancer again and a vampire lord again. 

I also have an unbuilt Wight King and unbuilt 2 Dreadblade Harrows so I can try to kit bash or convert a Wight King on Skeletal Steed somehow. 

I’ll have to build fast for tomorrow but it’s only 1.5k points. 

I don’t have any Terrorgheists, ghosts at all except the Dreadblade Harrows and they’re for converting into Wight Kings and I only have 60 skeletons and only 40 are built. 

So that’s what I’m working with. I’m new to death ? I just picked up half of that stuff today. 

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1 hour ago, Ravinsild said:

Well so far what I have in my collection is: 

60 Skeletons (20 are unbuilt) 

10 Grave Guard with sword and shield 

10 Grave Guard with 2-handed weapons

15 Black Knights (5 are built rest are on sprues) 

1 Mortis Engine/Coven Throne/Bloodseeker Palanquin Kit (not sure which to build but I guess I’ll build the one I like and counts as in the future) 

3 Spirit Hosts 

2 Neferata 

1 Mannfred (unbuilt)

1 Arkhan (unbuilt) 

4 Morghasts 

2 Wight King

1 Vampire Lord 

1 Necromancer 

my endless spells are on the way in the mail, as is my GHB and rulebook physical copies. 

Ive got a corpse cart on the way in the mail, a Necromancer again and a vampire lord again. 

I also have an unbuilt Wight King and unbuilt 2 Dreadblade Harrows so I can try to kit bash or convert a Wight King on Skeletal Steed somehow. 

I’ll have to build fast for tomorrow but it’s only 1.5k points. 

I don’t have any Terrorgheists, ghosts at all except the Dreadblade Harrows and they’re for converting into Wight Kings and I only have 60 skeletons and only 40 are built. 

So that’s what I’m working with. I’m new to death ? I just picked up half of that stuff today. 

grave guards with so few models are too easy to kill, I would boost their numbers before fielding them. with what you have built your best units are the 40 skeletons, necro, vampire lord, Neferata and Morghasts.

 

So what I would do for your game tomorrow.

proxy your 2 gg units for 2x 10 man skeletons units 160

Play  legion of night

morghast harbinger in ambush for a turn 1 charge on his castle. they are your distraction carnifex.  440

Necro and 40 skeletons in ambush too 390

black knights for fast objectives grabber 120

vampire lord to keep up with black knights 140

wight king general (give him ethereal amulet or a -1 to hit artefact). Stay back with him with one 10 man skellies bodyguard. 120

the other 10 skellies unit grab another objective.

If your opponent kill your 40 skeleton warriors just resummon them on an objective near the middle of the board.

you have 130pts left for 2 cp and don't forget your triumph if you have less points than him. ;)

 

If you are really aggresive with your ambushing units and always keep the pressure on, most people will only focus on the immediate threat and the rest of your small objective grabbers should be safe. :) If you can build 10 more skeletons they would help boost the numbers of one of your small units. this list is not optimal but with what you have it's the best I could do!

Edited by Cursed
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24 minutes ago, Cursed said:

grave guards with so few models are too easy to kill, I would boost their numbers before fielding them. with what you have built your best units are the 40 skeletons, necro, vampire lord, Neferata and Morghasts.

 

So what I would do for your game tomorrow.

proxy your 2 gg units for 2x 10 man skeletons units 160

Play  legion of night

morghast harbinger in ambush for a turn 1 charge on his castle. they are your distraction carnifex.  440

Necro and 40 skeletons in ambush too 390

black knights for fast objectives grabber 120

vampire lord to keep up with black knights 140

wight king general (give him ethereal amulet or a -1 to hit artefact). Stay back with him with one 10 man skellies bodyguard. 120

the other 10 skellies unit grab another objective.

If your opponent kill your 40 skeleton warriors just resummon them on an objective near the middle of the board.

you have 130pts left for 2 cp and don't forget your triumph if you have less points than him. ;)

 

If you are really aggresive with your ambushing units and always keep the pressure on, most people will only focus on the immediate threat and the rest of your small objective grabbers should be safe. :) If you can build 10 more skeletons they would help boost the numbers of one of your small units. this list is not optimal but with what you have it's the best I could do!

Here I was thinking a totally different approach. 

Allegiance: Grand Host of Nagash
Mortal Realm: Shyish

Leaders
Wight King with Baleful Tomb Blade(120)
- General
- Mount: Steed
- Trait: Lord of Nagashizzar  
- Artefact: Ethereal Amulet 
Vampire Lord (140)
- Mount: Flying Horror
- Artefact: Balefire Lantern  
- Lore of the Vampires: Vile Transference
Necromancer (110)
- Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming Dread

Battleline
30 x Skeleton Warriors (240)
- Ancient Blades
10 x Skeleton Warriors (80)
- Ancient Blades
10 x Skeleton Warriors (80)
- Ancient Blades
10 x Grave Guard (160)
- Great Wight Blades

Units
5 x Black Knights (120)
2 x Morghast Harbingers (220)
- Spirit Halberds

Battalions
Deathmarch (160)

Endless Spells
Chronomantic Cogs (60)

Total: 1490 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 11
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 97
 

Run up the board (literally) turn 1 ASAP, with my WK, VL, Morghasts, BK, GG and put my 30 skeletons in the grave to summon in their territory. 

Throw my 10 man skeletons squads and Necromancer on objective duty, wipe him and camp objectives.  

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you really like the deathmarch battalion! ahah! xD

 

I'm just wondering why you want that much to move a few units 4'' more? if your opponent is castling as you said, he will surely be too far for a turn one charge. While with legion of night, (ambushers + cogs) you have a very good chance of charging 4 morghast harbingers turn 1 and also a good chance of charging 40 skeletons. As I see it legion of night accomplish the same thing as deathmarch but with better result while also saving 160pts. Also skeletons in cover with 3+ save against rend ''-'' are just so tanky! :)

 

ps: you should always use skeletons in bloc of 10 or 40. If they are 30, your opponent only kill 1+ skeleton and they all lose one attack

Edited by Cursed
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