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Avatar Rage

Noobranomicon (Beginners guide to Death)

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Another question: I am assembling another Battleforce Blade of the Blood Queen which comes with 10 Grave Guard. The Warscroll in the assembly instructions speaks of a magic spell they give all Deathmages which is called like Raise Dead which allows you on a 7+ I think to summon 5 Grave Guard and on a 10+ to summon 10. 

Is that still a spell or effect anywhere? It’s not in the app and I’ve combed through my Legions of Nagash book multiple times but I don’t see it anymore. 

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6 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

Is that still a spell or effect anywhere?

No...

those were the old summoning rules, befor AoSv2... so just an old warscroll, kinda like square bases   XD

every summonable unit gave a „summon me“ spell to death wizzards, which at first was funny, because Nagash could cough up 2 dragons, 2 gheists, 4 M.Archai, 4 M.Harbringers, 40 skellis and 40 zombies per hero phase

XP

then suddenly you had to pay reinforcement points for that (T_T) and now, we cannot summon anymore, but invigorate.

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32 minutes ago, Honk said:

No...

those were the old summoning rules, befor AoSv2... so just an old warscroll, kinda like square bases   XD

every summonable unit gave a „summon me“ spell to death wizzards, which at first was funny, because Nagash could cough up 2 dragons, 2 gheists, 4 M.Archai, 4 M.Harbringers, 40 skellis and 40 zombies per hero phase

XP

then suddenly you had to pay reinforcement points for that (T_T) and now, we cannot summon anymore, but invigorate.

That makes me really sad.... the chaos demon forces can all summon something from nothing, granted usually it’s a points system. Literally summoning a unit of Grave Guard to the battlefield on the spot would be so thematic and cool... :( 

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12 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

Does death have any buff spells or command abilities to wounds? +1 to wound rolls or anything like that? 

 

Not that springs to mind. Most Death buffs are aimed at increasing the accuracy or number of attacks rather than buffing wound rolls.

I’ll have another look through my books when I am next able to.

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4 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

That makes me really sad.... the chaos demon forces can all summon something from nothing,

X-Mas is over...

and if you think about summoning a group of harvesters from a gravesite, that  is pretty strong. our necromancers just have to do the summoning before the battle.

when you try to kill-off 40 bait-skellis from the middle of the board, with 4 gravesites and 2 heroes, I can live without summoning and do deathly invocations instead.

Fluff wise, yes, very sad but crunch wise very hard to balance. I loved the flexibility and the high risk high reward possibilities of summoning big stuff. But Nagash, Arkhan and the mortis engine just broke it...

summoning 40 skellis on a 3+?! 2 terrogheists on a 6+?! That was just too broken and then they totally killed it with reinforcement points, so now I‘m happy to have a working ruleset 

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I have several questions. 

First: Which endless spells are the best for Death and are they often incorporated into Death lists? 

Second: How terrible is the Deathmarch Battalion? Been playing around with running Wight Kings on Skeletal Steeds with loads of skeletons, Grave Guard and Black Knights + Necromancers And Cogs giving basic skeletons 10” move and constant regeneration. Would this be stupid? 

Third: What are the general best realm artifacts for death? I know certain factions gravitate toward certain ones, which ones are the most valuable to death? 

Fourth: Does Chronomatic Cogs interact at all with the flat 6” charge skeletons get? Can I auto charge 8”? 

Fifth: Can I run Deathmarch Battalion in the Soulblight Allegiance? 

Sixth: Can Necromancers still ride Nightmare Steeds? 

I think it would be funny to have an insanely fast skeleton army that blitzkreigs out the gate with like 12” move skeletons and grave guard and 24” inch moving Black Knights and really fast heroes (all mounted or with wings basically) to keep up. 

Edited by Ravinsild

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First: depends on your army composition, enemy and battleplan. Spellportal still works for Arkhan and Nagash for a soul harvest bomb or Hand of dust. Cogs obviously, but also the pendulum or the palisades or  whatnot might be used for area denial...

second: haven’t tried it and think the costs outweight the 4“, but if your set on building a list around it, you surely can and have fun with it.

third: also depends, but ethereal for your VloZd or doppelganger cloak and something feather are discussed. So hard protection for  big melee heros, either through ignore rend, -1 to hit or crazy can’t attack mechanics 

fourth: „...add 2“ to charge rolls...“ yes, definitely 

fifth: somewhere faq, yes definitely 

sixth: don’t think so, warscroll doesn’t give that option. Vampirelord fe has all options clearly stated, same with the wightking 

but if you position your necromancer aggressively at the 12“ line, run him up and you‘re in the middle of the board, no problem. Or put him on a vortex if you‘d rather have him as backfield support with a small skelli group on homebase and have him reaching out with van hels second round...

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50 minutes ago, Honk said:

First: depends on your army composition, enemy and battleplan. Spellportal still works for Arkhan and Nagash for a soul harvest bomb or Hand of dust. Cogs obviously, but also the pendulum or the palisades or  whatnot might be used for area denial...

second: haven’t tried it and think the costs outweight the 4“, but if your set on building a list around it, you surely can and have fun with it.

third: also depends, but ethereal for your VloZd or doppelganger cloak and something feather are discussed. So hard protection for  big melee heros, either through ignore rend, -1 to hit or crazy can’t attack mechanics 

fourth: „...add 2“ to charge rolls...“ yes, definitely 

fifth: somewhere faq, yes definitely 

sixth: don’t think so, warscroll doesn’t give that option. Vampirelord fe has all options clearly stated, same with the wightking 

but if you position your necromancer aggressively at the 12“ line, run him up and you‘re in the middle of the board, no problem. Or put him on a vortex if you‘d rather have him as backfield support with a small skelli group on homebase and have him reaching out with van hels second round...

Sucks there’s no mounted version of the Necromancer but the rest of my answers are good news! I know it adds +2 to charge rolls but I didn’t know if it extended the automatic 6” out to 8”. 

Glad it does work. I’m going to try a silly Deathmarch list once I get some Black Knights :) 

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Is the Infernal Banner still an option for Wight Kings and how does that interact with most Legions deathless minions Allegiance trait. 

Also does the Crypt Shield bonus add +1 to the 6+ feel no pain? Does it modify that save roll or not? Also does the Legion of Night “The Bait” ability interact with Deathless Minions? 

 

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Infernal Banner is no more... so no interactions.

the crypt shields only modify the armor save, from a 5+ to a 4+, but only if the attacking weapon has no rend...

the bait rule also modifies only your regular armor save by +1, and if I remember correctly only for deathrattle units.

bringing the save of afore mentioned GG to a 4+ base, 3+ with cryptshields against attacks without rend.

please do position them in cover for that sweet 2+ save ?

 

no interactions with deathless minions save whatsoever, stays at 6+...

also because they trigger against different things, your armor saves against a wounding hit, regardless of the damages, while deathless minions is a save roll against each single point of damage received.

in AoSv1 there was a Generals Ability to improve it to a 5+, but no more. Used that for my FEC army a lot, together with the GkoTg spell you had two 5+ final saves

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17 minutes ago, Honk said:

Infernal Banner is no more... so no interactions.

the crypt shields only modify the armor save, from a 5+ to a 4+, but only if the attacking weapon has no rend...

the bait rule also modifies only your regular armor save by +1, and if I remember correctly only for deathrattle units.

bringing the save of afore mentioned GG to a 4+ base, 3+ with cryptshields against attacks without rend.

please do position them in cover for that sweet 2+ save ?

 

no interactions with deathless minions save whatsoever, stays at 6+...

also because they trigger against different things, your armor saves against a wounding hit, regardless of the damages, while deathless minions is a save roll against each single point of damage received.

in AoSv1 there was a Generals Ability to improve it to a 5+, but no more. Used that for my FEC army a lot, together with the GkoTg spell you had two 5+ final saves

Ah, too bad, no 6+++ save after all since no more Infernal Banner. I guess the functionality was roughly baked into the Deathless Minions Allegiance trait(s). 

You are correct, the bait only counts for Deathrattle, but as it stands my army seems to be comprised of almost all skeletons, so it all works out! I guess it would be over powered to have a save after a save after a save and to be able to buff them :P

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1 hour ago, Ravinsild said:

I guess it would be over powered to have a save after a save after a save 

Had it for my ghoulking on terrorgheist... 4+ armor (3+ mystic shield,back in 1st edition), then a 5+ per damage save from the spell, then another 5+ deathless minion save (ruler of the night, back in 1st edition).

So 3+ armor, 5++ and 5+++ I had some guys complaining about that, but after his 6 kurnoth hunters killed him in one double turn I kinda complained back...

(citation deleted due to explicit lyrics)

I‘m very sad, that they took the banner from the wightking, it was a very good trait, which made him worth fielding. Nowadays the necromancer is cheaper and way better, while the vamp lord is faster, deadlier (always d3) and a caster with the same/slightly better command ability... not to mention better invocation and regeneration 

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17 minutes ago, Honk said:

Had it for my ghoulking on terrorgheist... 4+ armor (3+ mystic shield,back in 1st edition), then a 5+ per damage save from the spell, then another 5+ deathless minion save (ruler of the night, back in 1st edition).

So 3+ armor, 5++ and 5+++ I had some guys complaining about that, but after his 6 kurnoth hunters killed him in one double turn I kinda complained back...

(citation deleted due to explicit lyrics)

I‘m very sad, that they took the banner from the wightking, it was a very good trait, which made him worth fielding. Nowadays the necromancer is cheaper and way better, while the vamp lord is faster, deadlier (always d3) and a caster with the same/slightly better command ability... not to mention better invocation and regeneration 

I think the Wight King still has a place. The bonus attacks stack, after all. Vampires can target any death unit and wight Kings can target any Deathrattle unit. I suppose it would be entirely possible to bring 40 Skeletons, a Wight King with the Lord of Nagashizzar Command Trait, use his Command Ability on them in addition to a Vampire Lord’s Command Ability, sort of like using Mighty Waaagh! Multiple times, and getting +3 attacks on the blob of skeletons. In a perfect storm, one could have 240 3/4/-/1attacks going out. In a perfecter storm one could Vanhel’s said unit of Skeletons.... 

Even 10 Grave Guard with Great-Wight Bladed would put out 50 attacks... possibly twice. 3/3/-1/1 with a chance for double damage.... 

Honestly the more I look at Death the more they seem like a better version of Ironjawz. Wight King and Vampire Lord are essentially the Waaagh! Command Ability, fighting twice beats anything Destruction has, and Deathmarch is basically Ironfist but better - and if you play Ironjawz you know how good that Battalion is. 

Death has just as good of an offense as Ironjawz but their defensive ability is 10x better. Neither armies have ranged attacks or mortal wound prevention, but death magic is much stronger and the healing and resurrection of Grave Guards is straight up better. Replenishing entire lost units is just insane. Imagine if you could regenerate brutes on the spot or blobs of ‘Ardboys. 

Legion of Sacrament is Ironfist (Bloodtoofs) on Steroids with slightly worse charging (free automatic 6-8” though so debatably....).... 

Whilst Grand Host of Nagash has great support command abilities whilst being a tad (3”) slower than LoS but also buffs Morghasts who are just fast and tough anyway... 

Legion of Night allows you freely place your hammer right where you want it (within reason), and also gives your own territory objective holders a nice defensive buff making from an incredibly durable anvil. 

I think Wight Kings, Deathmarch and Deathrattle have a lot more potential than people give them credit for... but other people may not play Ironjawz or Khorne. 

Death has better defense than both Khorne and Ironjawz and just as potent of an offense with attack stacking. 

Now I just need to find my go to hammer unit. For Khorne it’s Skullreapers all day every day, they can destroy almost anything in a flurry of destruction, and for Ironjawz it’s Brutes. I need to find my elite killing blow unit that’s my main offensive tool. 

I’m testing out Great-Wight Blade Grave-Guard, Black Knights and Morghast Harbingers.... any other suggestions? Perhaps... Vargheists... 3/3/-1/2 3 attacks which can be buffed further by LoN and Vampire Lords... up to 5 on the charge I believe... 

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1 hour ago, Ravinsild said:

you play Ironjawz you know how good that Battalion is. 

Can’t comment, still in intensive therapy... had really devastating crushing defeats 

but then came the „new“ book and Nagash came round for a reckoning (wipe in round 3)

the idea of going almost pure deathrattle sounds pretty cool. Maybe not crushing the meta, but fluffy and cool to play

The king/vamp/necro combo can really crank the dial to 11 on a unit. 10 graveguards or black knights getting prepped for the charge... turn 1 if all goes well, brutal. And if they don’t make it, just resummon for a second attempt XD

 

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8 hours ago, Honk said:

Can’t comment, still in intensive therapy... had really devastating crushing defeats 

but then came the „new“ book and Nagash came round for a reckoning (wipe in round 3)

the idea of going almost pure deathrattle sounds pretty cool. Maybe not crushing the meta, but fluffy and cool to play

The king/vamp/necro combo can really crank the dial to 11 on a unit. 10 graveguards or black knights getting prepped for the charge... turn 1 if all goes well, brutal. And if they don’t make it, just resummon for a second attempt XD

 

When I use the Mortis Engine explode ability... does it only heal, or can it bring back D3 models from the dead if they're 1 wound middles? 

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Tough question, but with other abilities it is clearly stated, if you can bring models back or not. Invigorating aura and deathly invocations both state heal first, then return slain models with combined wound characteristics of equal or less.

since the engine only mentions healing models, I don’t think returning slain models is allowed.

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Hi im also totally new to aos 2 and warhammer in general. I got it more for collecting the models than anything else. But i would like if possible to start playing it little by little.

Im looking to start of at a 1000 point list and what i have is basically 3 start collecting skeleton horde, 1 nagash and 10 more skeleton warriors. So this comes up to

1 Nagash

1 Arkhan

1 Neferata

1 Mannfred

40 skeleton warriors 

15 black knights/hexwraith

What would be a possible 1000 point list and should i make black knights or hexwraiths?

The guide is super helpful but i'm still very new so i would like some seniors advice ?

Edited by Vyrullax

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37 minutes ago, Vyrullax said:

i would like some seniors advice

Not sure what Pops would say XD

Nagash with triple wolves... or 2x10 skellis (endless spell ?!) (980/960 pts)

Mortarch with the rest... skellis have to be 30/10 or 20/20 for battleline. Blackknights or hexwraith is kinda preference question.

generally speaking I would max out on skellis playing Arkhan, take 10/5 blackknights when fielding mannfred (ambush) and not sure with neffi...

then you need to wait for x-mas and hope for:

necromancer, morghast, more skellis, maybe wolves and a vampire on dragon...

Just play and get a feeling. Get destroyed a couple of times, learn to play and come back with a vengeance 

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My first game I played Neferata, 2 Morghast Harbingers, 2 sets of 10 skeletons and like 1 unit of 5 Graveguard. 

As soon as my Neferata and Morghasts went down I lost immediately. 

At 1,000 points it makes more sense to bring a few cheap heroes and then load up the rest of the points on regular troops. 

The next game I played was 2 Wight Kings, 1 Necromancers (350 points out of 1,000 so 35% I think) the rest was 30 Skeletons, then 10 skeletons then 10 Grave Guard with Sword and Shield and 10 with 2handers. This list was much better because even after losing 1 Wight King and 10 skeletons I still had plenty to fight with and lots of regeneration. I won by attrition because my units kept respawning members and being revived from the dead. With only 1 leader and that leader being 40% of your total points it makes it much harder to recover when they die. 

My next list will look something like this: 

Allegiance: Legion of Night

Leaders
Wight King with Baleful Tomb Blade(120)
- General
- Mount: Steed
- Trait: Merciless Hunter  
- Artefact: Curseblade  
Necromancer (110)
- Artefact: Morbheg's Claw  
- Lore of the Deathmages: Decrepify

Battleline
30 x Skeleton Warriors (240)
- Ancient Blades
10 x Skeleton Warriors (80)
- Ancient Blades
10 x Skeleton Warriors (80)
- Ancient Blades

Units
5 x Grave Guard (80)
- Great Wight Blades
5 x Black Knights (120)

Battalions
Deathmarch (160)

Total: 990 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 75
 

Although it’s entirely possible the Battalion is a waste at 1,000 so I may just go ahead and drop it for more troops. 

Edited by Ravinsild

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2 hours ago, Vyrullax said:

Hi im also totally new to aos 2 and warhammer in general. I got it more for collecting the models than anything else. But i would like if possible to start playing it little by little.

Im looking to start of at a 1000 point list and what i have is basically 3 start collecting skeleton horde, 1 nagash and 10 more skeleton warriors. So this comes up to

1 Nagash

1 Arkhan

1 Neferata

1 Mannfred

40 skeleton warriors 

15 black knights/hexwraith

What would be a possible 1000 point list and should i make black knights or hexwraiths?

The guide is super helpful but i'm still very new so i would like some seniors advice ?

This is a very flexible beginning to your army. 

For a 1,000 point army you can use one of your Mortarchs (pick your favourite legion) along side your skeleton horde (2 units of 20 would work great) and your cavalry. Save Nagash for your 2,000 points. 

Black Knights and Hexwraiths but have their pros and cons. Hexwraiths are one of my favourite units in the game, they are fast, have a nice dps ability and are ethereal so can tank against some heavy damage units. However they don't have a lot of synergy with a Legions of Nagash armies. Black Knights are a solid unit that does have a lot of synergy with LoN armies. Power them up with some deathrattle buffs and they can be a serious threat. Ultimately I would build these with based on where you want to go with your army in the future. 

You may want to invest in some cheaper characters to help your Mortarch too. Necromancer or Wight King (especially if you get black knights) will help out with buffs for your units. 

From here see what areas of your army your like and build up from there.

I am glad you have been finding the guide useful. I hope the next sections will be just as helpful. 

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Tools of the Dead

This section will cover the tools of the used by Death armies.  Digging into mechanics and diving into how to use them. Unlike the previous sections this will go into detail about one mechanic at a time and how to interact with certain aspects of an army. 

 

Gravesites - A look behind the coffin lid

Gravesites are a feature exclusive to the Legions of Nagash that I have touched on briefly earlier in the guide. So let’s go over the basic again. Gravesites are markers placed on the battlefield. These markers can be anything from a coin to a custom base. Just as long as their size is not intrusive.

You get a total of four gravesites, two to be set up in your territory, two set up in your opponents. This is where the first vestiges of strategy occur with grave markers. The location of these markers will determine your troop formation. Most of your armies abilities will kick into gear near these sites.

So first off let’s cover the primary ability of the gravesites; summoning. Instead of setting up units on the battlefield you can set them up in grave. For every Death Hero you have within “9 of a gravesite you can summon one of these units in your movement phase. These summoned units can be summoned within 9” of the gravesite.

Next up is the ability Invigorating Aura. This is the the ability everyone loves, the regeneration ability. Units with 9” of the gravesite heal D3 wounds, this wound heal can also return units from the dead. I have talked at length about this ability. Just don’t forget about it mid battle. It can keep you blob units alive.

Finally there is the Endless Legions command ability. This ability allows you to return units from the dead. Defeated units can be set up again within 9” of a gravesite, at the low, low cost of 1 command point.

Now that we have gone over the basics let’s talk strategy.

Innumerable Legions - Grand Host of Nagash - Every time you get a hero phase you roll a dice. On a 5+ you can heal D3 wounds to a summonable unit. This is in addition to Invigorating Aura. If you are lucky you can bring back 6 models a turn. This can make a unit of zombies into a tanky mass (especially when combined with Nagash's command ability).

Behind Enemy Lines - Legion of the Night - combining the ambush ability with those of gravesites you can make a deadly combination. Place a death hero in ambush and you can slowly summon your defeated summonable units in your opponents territory. At this point these units should be far away from their stronger melee units. Letting you grind them down from both sides.

Masters Teachings - Legion of Sacrament - This Legion has an ability that allows you to raise your opponents models as a summonable unit as long as it dies within 6’ of a gravesite. The unit can be set up one of your own defeated units if you roll a 4+ as the last model dies. If you get the 4+ then you can bring it back within 9’ of a gravesite and 9’ away from enemy models.

Simply put you let your cheap disposable units die and pop em back up as you hack your opponents units with your elite units.

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33 minutes ago, Avatar Rage said:

Save Nagash for your 2,000 points. 

Never!!! Field him and field him early, nothing shows you the limitations of our god that a 1.5k game trying to score objectives. 

Still fun but tricky and a good experience 

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Thanks everyone for the fast reply. I will be taking into consideration getting a necromancer and maybe a wight king and vampire lord for additional hero choices.

Im a little confuse by splitting 2x20 skellies. Dont i require 3 battleline? Or is it possible to have just 2 or even 1 battleline.

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17 minutes ago, Vyrullax said:

Im a little confuse by splitting 2x20 skellies. Dont i require 3 battleline? Or is it possible to have just 2 or even 1 battleline.

In a 1,000 point army you will only need 2 battleline units. The number of battlelines increase with the point score. So in a 1,000 point army 2 block of 20 gives you a decent battleline. 

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Do you have any suggestions for a Legion of Night army, or in general death tips, for battle of the pass map? 

The key is to hold home and both center points.... 

my offense today was 10 Skeletons, 10 2-handed Grave Guard and a Wight King which quickly died despite graveyard support. It was against a Slaanesh army and their speed and ability to react to my ambush took like 1 turn to get a keeper of secrets, Lord of Chaos, 5 chaos knights, 5 of their little noodle dragon riders with the -1 to hit aura and a chariot.... 

i held home base with 10 Grave Guard with shields and 30 skeletons. 

Mid he had 40 marauders. 

Should I have used 10 skeletons and 10 Shield Grave Guard and ambushed center with the 30 skeletons and 10 2-handed Grave Guard? 

He didn’t go for the bait at all so it would assume I need to go on offense right? I only get a defensive bonus in my own territory wholly within and I’m not sure who my most powerful offensive unit is.

just any suggestions for this map? 

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