AoS 2 - Archaon / Everchosen Discussion

[Xasz]

36 minutes ago, will pollock said:

idk i find he is fast enough as is, the general plan is to buff the attacks for the instakill slayer of kings

Sure, but neither the Bloodsecrator nor the Deathbringer are particular good at this.

Both will be stranded in your own half of the table. On top of that, they only have one worthwhile target to buff anyway.

[Revan123]

Also keeper of secret and exalted daemon of slaanesh can be considered as buffers for Archaon

 

[Frowny]

So far I have a slaves to darkness army. And archeon seems like a neat force multiplier and enabler, that I was thinking about using. However, I'm struggling actually to make lists with him... He costs so many points by himself that by the time you add ~4 other characters to use his ability on, there is nothing left to actually support! Further, Most of the best command abilities are on quite expensive models. And it feels like the best way to do it is to use a single faction rather than some mix of all 4..... Which leaves me wishing I could still use foot archeon or horse archeon just to save a bunch of points.... So I'm struggling to imagine that is the right direction to go with things...

[Lucky Snake Eyes]

3 minutes ago, Frowny said:

So far I have a slaves to darkness army. And archeon seems like a neat force multiplier and enabler, that I was thinking about using. However, I'm struggling actually to make lists with him... He costs so many points by himself that by the time you add ~4 other characters to use his ability on, there is nothing left to actually support! Further, Most of the best command abilities are on quite expensive models. And it feels like the best way to do it is to use a single faction rather than some mix of all 4..... Which leaves me wishing I could still use foot archeon or horse archeon just to save a bunch of points.... So I'm struggling to imagine that is the right direction to go with things...

Archaon cannot join slaves to darkness since lacks the keyword

[CountryMou3e]

Hi folks , I’m currently working on an everchosen list. In an attempt to pad out the model count , I’m trying to work out the once per battle summoning that a gaunt summoner can do from a realm gate. 

Can blue horror points be generated and spent outside of tzeentch allegiance ? Pinks are looking like a good choice to try summon and would be great if we could split them under everchosen 

[Xasz]

38 minutes ago, CountryMou3e said:

Can blue horror points be generated and spent outside of tzeentch allegiance ?

Summoning rules are part of the corresponding allegiance abilities, i.e. Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle... so no.

If we'll see an Everchosen/StD/Darkoath mashup, I have a hunch that there will be summoning rules as well. Just a bit downgraded and limited compared to the god specific armies. (e.g. only be able to summon lesser daemons n stuff)

[CountryMou3e]

27 minutes ago, Xasz said:

Summoning rules are part of the corresponding allegiance abilities, i.e. Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle... so no.

If we'll see an Everchosen/StD/Darkoath mashup, I have a hunch that there will be summoning rules as well. Just a bit downgraded and limited compared to the god specific armies. (e.g. only be able to summon lesser daemons n stuff)

Thought as much, felt to good to be true  that aside, getting 10 demons from the guant summoners once per battle ability is still useful. 

[Gibs]

Hi guys,

Returning AOS player here......long story short, got a bit disillusioned with Warhammer Fantasy and sold most of my army and books. Have tried the 40K experience but I find it hard to buy into the whole Sci-fi universe. Currently own nothing in AOS, no rule books or anything its all a little overwhelming and I dont' want to spend money on stuff and realize i needed something different 😫

I really want to build a new AOS army and while I like the be "competitive" the priority is building an army around a theme and armies I like.......'winning isn't everything, but its not fun losing every game either....'  

Having spent weeks looking through all the models, initially I wanted to build  Stormcast army. However, as soon as I saw the Archaon and Varanguard models I knew that is what i really want to build an army around....not to mention it appears there are quite a few Stormcast players in my local area.

What I have quickly found though is that once you select Archaon and a couple of units or Vanguard that is over half way to a 2k army. 

Question: what units size should Varanguard be run it and who many units is best?

The theme I have in my mind is a mounted armored army, but not just maxing out on Varanguard as it does not provide a great deal of variety.

Question:  what other mounted units/characters would work well with Arhcaon and Varanguard and help create the mounted them?

Any help and direction would be great, even if it is just pointing me in the direction of resources that already exist haha

[Xasz]

On 12/6/2018 at 1:34 AM, Gibs said:

Question: what units size should Varanguard be run it and who many units is best?

I cannot see a unit that exceeds 3-6, they are still rather expensive.

 

On 12/6/2018 at 1:34 AM, Gibs said:

Question:  what other mounted units/characters would work well with Arhcaon and Varanguard and help create the mounted them?

Chaos Knights, Chariots and Lord on Demonic Mount.

If you roll with Chaos allegiance you have a lot of option for customization, as you gain access to a lot of battalions. Plaguetouched and Fatesworn Warband (Everchosen) seem reasonable with such a setup, due to keyword flexibility (Archaon has almost everyone, StD can be marked). I have no experience with the StD Battalions but Godsworn Champions of Ruin or Ruinbringer Warband could fit right in.

[flamingwalnut]

On Wednesday, December 05, 2018 at 7:34 PM, Gibs said:

Hi guys,

Returning AOS player here......long story short, got a bit disillusioned with Warhammer Fantasy and sold most of my army and books. Have tried the 40K experience but I find it hard to buy into the whole Sci-fi universe. Currently own nothing in AOS, no rule books or anything its all a little overwhelming and I dont' want to spend money on stuff and realize i needed something different 😫

I really want to build a new AOS army and while I like the be "competitive" the priority is building an army around a theme and armies I like.......'winning isn't everything, but its not fun losing every game either....'  

Having spent weeks looking through all the models, initially I wanted to build  Stormcast army. However, as soon as I saw the Archaon and Varanguard models I knew that is what i really want to build an army around....not to mention it appears there are quite a few Stormcast players in my local area.

What I have quickly found though is that once you select Archaon and a couple of units or Vanguard that is over half way to a 2k army. 

Question: what units size should Varanguard be run it and who many units is best?

The theme I have in my mind is a mounted armored army, but not just maxing out on Varanguard as it does not provide a great deal of variety.

Question:  what other mounted units/characters would work well with Arhcaon and Varanguard and help create the mounted them?

Any help and direction would be great, even if it is just pointing me in the direction of resources that already exist haha

Just want to point one thing in case it gets glossed over: If you take too many non-Everchosen units (over 400 at 2000 points) you will break your ally limit and have to go general allegience, which means, Varanguard, Knights, Chariots, etc aren't battleline, which are mandatory (3 units of them at least for 2,000 points.) Just a reminder. The Warscroll Builder on the Warhammer Community site helps outline what is and isn't Battleline, and when.

[sorokyl]

On a similar point, your allies can not count towards your battleline, so you need at least 3 seperate units of Varanguard

So your army is:
Archaon
3x 3Varanguard
is 1500 points. 
and you have 500 points to play with.   You can add at most 3 more Vanguard. You can only add 400 points of allies, so at least 100 points must come from (spells, gaunt summoner, varanguard)

[Gibs]

Thanks,

kind of going off the idea now as I don’t particularly want three units of Varanguard. Was thinking Arch + Varanguard and then some other chaos mortals units.....but sounds like that won’t work.

 

 

[Xasz]

53 minutes ago, Gibs said:

Thanks,

kind of going off the idea now as I don’t particularly want three units of Varanguard. Was thinking Arch + Varanguard and then some other chaos mortals units.....but sounds like that won’t work.

 

 

Again, Archaon is very flexible with his allegiance. 

With Chaos allegiance you can run whatever you want, just fill out the 3 battlelines with 15 Chaos Warriors (you get them anyway in every box you would want to buy for StD) and you still have around 800 points to play with after adding Archaon + Varanguard.

[sorokyl]

The only issue is he is not slaves to darkness.  It's best to pick khorne or nurlge, and then add archaon and however many slaves to darkness as you want. (don't need any actual nurgle/khorne).  The varanguard are allies, you can fit one unit. 

[Túrbóbelja]

I have been looking to expand my Tzeentch forces to StD and eventually perhaps buying the big man himself and some Varanguard, but I want to do it in pieces rather than buying in bulk.  But after looking at some of the warscrolls, are Varanguard worth fielding without Archeon since he buffs them up considerably?

[Lightbox]

Has anyone had much experience with the overlords of chaos battallion? Archaon's one to let you know turn priority in advance and buff varanguard on the charge?

 

I'm considering trying it in a mixed chaos army for a bit of fun (I really like varanguard and want to be able to run more than 3 every now and then and generally don't do super competetive games anyway) and just wondered whether people found it worth it. Honestly I'm not too sure whether the gaunt summoner on disc would really add much to the army and the batallion itself is a bit pricey. The batallion in a list would likely be 6 varanguard in it and supported by some god keyword buffing heroes and slaves to darkness stuff for battleline & objective holding.

 

Any other recommendations for fun ways to do lists with more varanguard focus would also be welcome. Though I could quite easily build a list with archy, 3x3 varanguard and then have some cheap battleline to grab objectives (bloodreavers/kairic acolytes/5man chaos warriors) I'm not too sure he and the 3 units of varanguard would be enough to hammer the opponents and disrupt them whilst my battleline nabbed the objectives. Even in our more casual - casualcompetetive environment at our club.

 

On ‎12‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 9:04 AM, Túrbóbelja said:

I have been looking to expand my Tzeentch forces to StD and eventually perhaps buying the big man himself and some Varanguard, but I want to do it in pieces rather than buying in bulk.  But after looking at some of the warscrolls, are Varanguard worth fielding without Archeon since he buffs them up considerably?

I had a game recently where some varanguard deleted mazarrel the butcher in one charge after archaon had died so no +1 bonus. I do find with the fellspears and nice 3+ save they do good work. Much better with archy of course but still useable, though whether 280 points of useable without him I'm not too sure. Though don't underestimate the pile in & attack twice, use it on the charge with the spears and you can fairly reliably delete whatever big gribbly you want dead that turn. Unless you mess up your dice of course but at 3+/3+ on the charge you have good odds.

[Lucky Snake Eyes]

Hey guys/gals/androgynous daemons/cardboard boxes,

I've decided my hobby project for 2019 is going to be slaanesh (hosts for AoS and emps kiddies for 40k) and have been considering varanguard or archie for my hosts list. Anyone find them to be good in a slaanesh list? 

[Xasz]

3 hours ago, Lucky Snake Eyes said:

Hey guys/gals/androgynous daemons/cardboard boxes,

I've decided my hobby project for 2019 is going to be slaanesh (hosts for AoS and emps kiddies for 40k) and have been considering varanguard or archie for my hosts list. Anyone find them to be good in a slaanesh list? 

Haven't really thought it through but I can see Archaon being used for his offensive abilities.

Archaon, a KoS, the new battalion with a big unit of fiends and daemonettes could make a fine list. I am not sure about the exact points but there should still be room for the 3rd battleline.

There is no point in making Archaon the general in Slaanesh lists, he just goes to town with double activations.

13 hours ago, Lightbox said:

Has anyone had much experience with the overlords of chaos battallion? Archaon's one to let you know turn priority in advance and buff varanguard on the charge?

No, but it seems rather expensive for what it does. Varanguard is already rather killy and the Gaunt Summoner went from top-pick to undesirable with 2.0.

[Lightbox]

12 hours ago, Lucky Snake Eyes said:

Hey guys/gals/androgynous daemons/cardboard boxes,

I've decided my hobby project for 2019 is going to be slaanesh (hosts for AoS and emps kiddies for 40k) and have been considering varanguard or archie for my hosts list. Anyone find them to be good in a slaanesh list? 

Hi I've had some experience playing archie in slaanesh recently. My list was: Him, KoS, 30 Demonettes, 5 warriors, 3 allied varanguard. Though this was a 1500 point list with only needing 2+ battleline but being allowed over 200 allies so I could bring the varanguard (was a just for fun game vs a friend to try stuff out) I played them quite badly but they seemed fun, archie and the KoS got a LOT of depravity points but both died before I could summon. I've seen some suggestions of basically min battleline (3 hellstriders or 3 warriors) and going all out on heroes to make use of all the command abilities with archie general (throwing around lots of double attacks is cool) and focusing on depravity points to summon in troops. Not sure how well it works but I plan to try it out sometime. I'd personally also sneak in some varanguard so you can take slaanesh lord on mount to get mortals double attacking though that will also work on archie.

 

Slaanesh have some really fun abilities, I wanna try the extra attacks on 6+ on varanguard with the +1 archie bonus sometime. Big guy is already a beast when he attacks twice. Demonettes are also great for tearing up squads. It's one you'll want to experiment with, you'll want lots of demons anyway for summoning but definitely try seeing if more heroes or more troops on the table works for you.

 

I would say that @Xasz's suggestion of new slaanesh battallion in the boxset could definitely be worth trying with archie, it'll give your demons even more punch.

 

9 hours ago, Xasz said:

No, but it seems rather expensive for what it does. Varanguard is already rather killy and the Gaunt Summoner went from top-pick to undesirable with 2.0.

Yeah that's what I thought. On the bright side without it I can fit in more troops and get any extra bonuses I need for varanguard through heroes. Though I do find they're pretty punchy enough on their own.

[Luke1705]

I don’t think the gaunt summoner is anywhere near undesirable status. Sure he’s 60 points more and you don’t get to put him up on a vortex and cast across the entire board any more. But his spell in a horde meta is just so strong. Let me know if you find another spell that kills 13 grimghast reapers every turn

[Kaleb Daark]

On 12/10/2018 at 9:04 AM, Túrbóbelja said:

I have been looking to expand my Tzeentch forces to StD and eventually perhaps buying the big man himself and some Varanguard, but I want to do it in pieces rather than buying in bulk.  But after looking at some of the warscrolls, are Varanguard worth fielding without Archeon since he buffs them up considerably?

They hit hard and are good fighters in their own right, but without archaon they don't get any of the god keywords. It's him that bestows the marks upon them.

of course, correct me if I've got it wrong.

 

[Lucky Snake Eyes]

@Lightbox Thanks for the advice! I'd planned on grabbing the slaanesh half of the box set anyways for summoning shenanigans since I already have an Slaves army to convert into the bulk of my slaanesh army. Think there are any key heroes I should take outside of archie and the keeper that could build up a decent amount of depravity? Most of the slaves heroes are pretty underwhelming when compared to their equivalents in other armies.

[Lightbox]

3 hours ago, Lucky Snake Eyes said:

@Lightbox Thanks for the advice! I'd planned on grabbing the slaanesh half of the box set anyways for summoning shenanigans since I already have an Slaves army to convert into the bulk of my slaanesh army. Think there are any key heroes I should take outside of archie and the keeper that could build up a decent amount of depravity? Most of the slaves heroes are pretty underwhelming when compared to their equivalents in other armies.

I like the chaos lord of slaanesh, his command ability means varanguard get extra attacks on 5+ due to archie's +1 which averages out as an extra 3 fellspear attacks (equivalent to a fourth varenguard). Haven't tested it out yet but seems exciting. Also the lord of slaanesh on daemonic mount might be better than the KoS if you go mortal heavy as his command ability is the same but for mortals and lots cheaper. A KoS can always be summoned in. If you plan to go daemon heavy though then a KoS is pretty useful. The masque is cheap and has some cool abilities too.

 

Slave heroes wise, a chaos lord isn't bad as a suicide hero because you then get a free spawn or daemon prince out of him which makes him more cost effective if he goes and actually does some killing. The chaos lord on manticore I quite like with the spear and sword, a lot of points sure but he can be pretty killy and a nice 'oooh look at me i'm big and scary' for your opponent. His command ability is pretty naff though. Sorcerer lord on manticore I think is pretty nice for his points, oracular visions is a great little ability and lots of wounds to generate depravity points. Slaves heroes don't have the best command abilities but I think some can be quite useful for depravity points or getting stuck into targets. It's not a hero but the warshrine could be worth looking into for the 6+ ignore wounds/mortals for your demonette hordes and such. Plus as slaanesh mark it will let you reroll charges on key targets.

 

Definitely try and have multiple heroes though, enrapturess could be good to sit back so you always have 1 hero alive to summon. She generates depravity even if she doesn't hurt anything too. But ideally she should be stood behind a big screen and shooting people.

[Lucky Snake Eyes]

11 hours ago, Lightbox said:

Definitely try and have multiple heroes though, enrapturess could be good to sit back so you always have 1 hero alive to summon. She generates depravity even if she doesn't hurt anything too. But ideally she should be stood behind a big screen and shooting people.

Enrapturess definitely felt like the support slaanesh needed when i saw her profile. Keeping her and a warshrine behind a screen of warriors while a lord of chaos leads a daemonette charge seems like a decent strat. I've also got plenty of knights to handle objective grabbing or at least contesting with their bulk and cost effectiveness. Archie would definitely make for a nice distraction while i bring in KoS or other daemons with enrapturess or a sorcerer. Here's hoping slaanesh gets a tome soon with more support like enrapturess, though it's looking like the next chaos tome will be darkoath/slaves/everchosen 2 chaos boogaloo