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Kurdoss Valentian, no love?


GeneralZero

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At first, when the new NH heros were announced with their warscroll, people said "what a beast!" "he hits like a truck" .... Reikonor, on the other hand, was meh, just not good enough at either ability, hitting or magic.

But today,  Reiko is almost an auto include in lists (because he's cheap, he's a wizard, etc...) and Kurdoss is just....hummmmm, WHERE IS KURDOSS?

I don't see him in many lists. (read: no list at all :P ). No bataillon with him doesn't help either.

Boosted and surrounded by some screens, I think he  can be one of our rare heavy hitter, a general killer and a CP stealer!

What do you think about him guys?

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I feel like, for his points, he's just too slow and not tanky. 7 wounds unrendable but he wants to be up in the enemy generals face. Thats a dangerous place to be. 

Reikenor on the other hand can do a guaranteed mortal to any MODEL within 12". Thats very powerful againt horde units that have 1 wound models with flag bearers or champions.
He flies 14" without running! (INSANE)
He costs less points.
He can unbind spells (more important than ever), and Wraithstorm is no slouch.
Reaped Like Corn alongside 6's to hit are double mortals.  (INSANE)
But most important, he doesn't require being in the enemy generals face to get the most out of him. 

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I think the biggest issue is the speed and the fact he has no real synergy with other units outside of granting breathless minion saves.  If he gave a buff or had spells or anything extra he could be good but at that many points he just doesn't cut it

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He has pretty ****** stats. If he moved 10+, he'd be fine. If he hit harder, he'd be fine. If he had more wounds, he'd be fine. If he had special rules that werent so niche like "rerolls vs the army general" or only doing extra damage on wound rolls of 6, he might be fine.

The command point thing is great and can cause some armies serious issues with their plans - if it works. And as the game goes on, the value of rolling that 5+ diminishes, it's really only truly great on T1 or T2 and the odds don't favour that, so this ability doesn't make up for him being weak elsewhere.

He is not unplayable, because he can spike and his ability can do great work, but he's not reliable when that isnt working. 

Also, Nighthaunt have issues in general allocating enough points to buff characters whilst still keeping enough units on the board to alpha+hold objectives, as well as keep their drops low enough for first turns, and he compounds that issue too.

That's why you won't see him much in top-end competitive lists, imho.

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I think the lack of buffing/debuffing is his biggest problem. Death characters in general should do that first, and worry about beating face after.  Maybe if he had a good command ability to use those stolen points on.  Oh, well.

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13 hours ago, GeneralZero said:

<snip>

But today,  Reiko is almost an auto include in lists (because he's cheap, he's a wizard, etc...) and Kurdoss is just....hummmmm, WHERE IS KURDOSS?

<snip>

I’m going to be enjoying the chuckles for while on that line.  Poor guy is the Jan of the Nighthaunt Bunch.

Someday (far in the future) I’ll be running a big enough point total to bring him as a mid-or-back-field tarpit captain.  My only goal now is to pick up the model, assemble, paint, and the whole time mock him for his bethrol and how he’ll never rule.  Gotta say Nasgashes Asshattery is top notch.

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11 hours ago, GeneralZero said:

In fact, Nighthaunt in general is far from beeing a beginner's army. Stormcast is. But NH need serious thinking and synergies to be a power creep.

Disagree 50%.  I think just like stormcast you'll be able to jump right in and win some games, but will only be competitive in the hands of a good AoS player.

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34 minutes ago, Evil Bob said:

I’m going to be enjoying the chuckles for while on that line.  Poor guy is the Jan of the Nighthaunt Bunch.

Someday (far in the future) I’ll be running a big enough point total to bring him as a mid-or-back-field tarpit captain.  My only goal now is to pick up the model, assemble, paint, and the whole time mock him for his bethrol and how he’ll never rule.  Gotta say Nasgashes Asshattery is top notch.

I would rock Kurdoss in every game if I were a night haunt player.  Dude sits on a throne and steals command points.  He's worth it for the flavor alone.

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33 minutes ago, Richelieu said:

I would rock Kurdoss in every game if I were a night haunt player.  Dude sits on a throne and steals command points.  He's worth it for the flavor alone.

What are you, one of those Narrative and Open Play types?  If so where is your group?

Endless Match Play get’s so dull and overly competitive.

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17 minutes ago, Evil Bob said:

What are you, one of those Narrative and Open Play types?  If so where is your group?

Endless Match Play get’s so dull and overly competitive.

Haha, no I'm actually very competitive... When that is what's called for.  But sometimes it's just more fun to try interesting things.  It also broadens your understanding of the game.

For example, recently I played against a club mate who is a stubborn Ogor player.  I could have taken a super competitive list and smashed him.  Instead I took a super whack mixed order list with 300 points of endless spells.  I lost, but it was fun and I got to put purple sun on the table.  

I'm equally happy to pay against Kroaknado filth because it's challenging.  

I just like moving minis around the table, rolling dice and having fun.  The most fun for me is when my opponent is having as much fun as I am (preferably while playing at the bleeding edge of competitiveness).

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I still prefer Kudross, especially over Grimhailer, both model wise, and rule wise. In fact, I just finished building him this morning, and he now sits upon my desk, waiting to be painted.

Rulewise, I simply prefer him over the other two, simply because he fills a gap that I think Nighthaunt are sorely missing: That being a dedicated heavy assault hero. My plan for him mostly involves him being a designated hero hunter, going in to snipe key enemy units or their general after deep striking them in, or after pinning them down with a soul cage and chainrasps.

Make no mistake, his function is definetly not the same as Grimhailers, but his use is very much needed. He helps deny enemy command points, which in my opinion, only get scarcer the longer the game goes on, since people will most likely start the game with multiple and dwindle as the game goes on. Secondly, he gives us access to more rending attacks, something that Nighthaunt desperately need; with -3 being only accessable to the Black Coach, and -2 being only on heros, Mymourns and Chainghasts, Kudross helps supplement that weakness. Plus, if he does get you that free CP, he basically gets that charge re-roll for free. My only real question is if he has to be on the field to activate his ability.

Now, in Comparison, Reiknor is a differeny beast entirely. Its no question that he has a good place as a magical support unit, that can be where he needs to be and do a pinch of wounds when needed. His sniping ability is also a neat trick. He is simply a great utility piece. But at the same time, I feel like he's gonna have problems being effectual outside of the magic phase, and even with that +3, he'll still have issues with getting spells off against those that can truly counter him. Not to mention, that at best, he's still only getting a single spell a turn.His movement's usefulness is a bit reduced by having our Spiritual summons happen at the beginning of the phase and our deepstrike.

As for why we don't seem him in competative lists? Well, for starters, it could be that we don't have the full range of models out. Nighthaunt is still being released at this very moment, and we haven't even begun to cement how a "proper" Nighthaunt list is going to look. We don't even have the FAQs for it yet, let alone the actual miniature for the whole army. I think that both Grimhailer and Kudross are very good units, and both will find their place in lists.

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  • 7 months later...
  • 2 weeks later...

I can't get him to be worth it in matched play. Every time his command point stealing could really matter it always fail and is impossible to make any tactic around.

 

He has the same statline and only 2 more attacks than Olynder, with his d6 damage on 6 to wound being as unreliable and meh as our Lord Executioner. 

It could have been awesome if he was a real powerhouse, so we had someone to actually go toe to toe with big shot generals, like behemoth mounted generals (very common which NH lack) or for example a spirit of durthu. It could have been awesome if he was the slowly approaching doom.

As mentioned by others he really lacks something to truly be useful. Right now a Black Coach just creates more trouble for my opponent every time for the point investment.

 

A Bare minimum would be a point reduction to 200 points tops in the next generals book, as GW is not likely to make any cool changes.

 

 

 

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Kurdoss Valentian costs the same amount of points as two Command Points plus either a Knight of Shrouds on foot, or a Spirit Torment. The two Command Points alone is most likely equal or better to what his ability will steal over the course of a game, and the damage output of the Knight or Torment through buffs to your Bladegheists or Grimghasts is likely to be both more reliable and sustainably higher over the course of a game. While I realise that some of the point of the Command Point theft is taking them away from your opponent as much as granting them to you, it remains a bonus at best, and entirely outside of what you can reasonably base any sort of tactics around.

There is simply no situation in Matched Play wherein he is not severely outperformed by other options in the Nighthaunt battletome.

(For the record, I love the model, just like everyone else.)

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Well we are playing a gambling army... Kurdoss leans into that and I have used him the first couple times recently.

Stealing your opponent's command point has a varying level of effectiveness.  For example, against my DoK opponent, I he is their nemesis because anytime he steals their command point is a turn they do not get their fancy command abilities to murder my sheets.

The amount of maniac cackling I have been able to do against my DoK opponent has been more than I expected.  I get at least one a game, and that turn is just the saddest turn of AoS for my opponent every time.  His damage output is likewise a huge gamble.  Sometimes he hits like a freight train... then other times he is extremely unimpressive.

All that said... he can completely cripple some enemies, and will be completely useless against others.  Like most of Nighthaunt... you have to just roll the dice, and I feel like everyone is trying to maximize reliability in their lists in an army that is inherently unreliable.

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