AoS 2 - Mixed Destruction Discussion

[broche]

Working on a Mixed Destruction (trying something different) list based on a min size gorefist. The idea is to put pressure on your opponent from turn 1. 
Most list now seem to have either crazy combo or summoning, so you can't afford to loose round one not being in combat, so the goal is to put at least the
3 units of gruntas and either the MK or Wyvern round 1 (depending on deployement / what you're facing).

I'm evaluating 2 idea for realm: Hysh, for a 5+ against mortal on MK, and recover CP or Ghyran for the gauntlet on Wyvern (6'' pile in so it can 
reach the back row of a screen) and +1/+1 weapon on MK weapon (or other)

with the Cog (93% odds of casting assuming out of dispel range), gruntas have 15+11+2d6+2 (35 average) reach, and wyvern/MK have 14 + 6 + 2d6 +2d6 + 2 
assuming I hit at least one rampanging destroyer (84% odds with a fifth hero) and use fungoid (36 avg).

I don't mind too much the battleline tax, as 10 orruks for 80 is pretty cheap, they make perfect objective older (especially in cover)
so what would you use for the left over point (190)?

Allegiance: Destruction
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)
Orruk Warboss On Wyvern (240)
Orruk Warboss (140)
- Great Waaagh Banner
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (80)
- General
- Trait: Ravager
10 x Orruks (80)
- Choppas & Shields
10 x Orruks (80)
- Choppas & Shields
10 x Orruks (80)
- Pair of Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
Gorefist (190)
Chronomantic Cogs (60)

Total: 1810 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 109

[amysrevenge]

Interesting.  I'd consider an additional Wizard maybe with the points.

[broche]

35 minutes ago, amysrevenge said:

Interesting.  I'd consider an additional Wizard maybe with the points.

yeah i'm  toying with another wizard (not sure between Weirnob, Wurrog or litte night goblin) or maybe a warchanter. I could keep 100 pts for 2 extra CP. 

[amysrevenge]

Could also consider bulking out one of the battleline units, 20 bodies hold objectives even better.

[ChatBatFun]

Just won a 1000 point battle against free peoples with this force what do u think?

 

[WindstormSCR]

I've been running mixed destruction with decent success also. The new realm artefacts really take the pinch off not having a battletome for most of the subfactions. The only major bummer is how expensive most destruction battalions are, so most of the time you end up going second unless you run highly elite behemoth-heavy armies.

[broche]

i think i've settle on this list for my next game:

Allegiance: Destruction
Mortal Realm: Ghyran
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)
- Artefact: Ghyrstrike 
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Orruk Warboss On Wyvern (240)
- Artefact: Ghyrropian Gauntlets 
Orruk Warboss (140)
- Great Waaagh Banner
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (80)
- General
- Trait: Ravager
10 x Orruks (80)
- Choppas & Shields
10 x Orruks (80)
- Choppas & Shields
20 x Moonclan Grots (130)
- Pokin Spears & Moon Shields
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
Gorefist (190)
Chronomantic Cogs (60)

Total: 1940 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 125
 

[amysrevenge]

You could have a nice time with that I reckon. 

[Davros]

Your list looks like alot of fun. You do seem a little light on bodies, but that is what play testing is all about.

I'm a big fan of mixed destruction, also consider Shyish for the ethereal amulet on the Wyvern boss. 4+ rerollable ignore rend is hard to get through. The other artifacts are mostly middle of the road ones, but it only has one really bad one (chronehair fetish).

Personally i would preffer the night gobo sham over the warchanter, the +2 to cast can be very important to make sure you get cogs. Then once you are in combat you have the oportunity to have 4 spells in one turn (2 at +2 as well), not many people pack the ability to dispell that many.

[WindstormSCR]

My current themed destruction list I've tried components of to great successes, but am waiting on the wolf riders to be able to seriously try:

Allegiance: Destruction
Mortal Realm: Chamon
Frostlord on Stonehorn (420)
- General
- Trait: Bellowing Tyrant
- Artefact: Battered Talisman
Gitmob Grot Shaman (80)
- Mount: Giant Wolf
Gitmob Grot Shaman (80)
- Mount: Giant Wolf
3 x Ogors (120)
- Ogor Clubs or Blades with Iron Fists
3 x Ogors (120)
- Ogor Clubs or Blades with Iron Fists
3 x Ogors (120)
- Ogor Clubs or Blades with Iron Fists
4 x Mournfang Pack (320)
- Gargant Hackers
10 x Grot Wolf Riders (180)
- Slittas & Wolf Bows
10 x Grot Wolf Riders (180)
- Slittas & Wolf Bows
Stonehorn Beastriders (320)
Chronomantic Cogs (60)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 133
 

Theme is basically a Sigmar take on old school Ogre kingdoms, with gitmob grots on wolves following a beastclaw alfrostun around much as gnoblars did the ogres. sadly there is no way to get cavalry battleline in GA: destruction so I'm stuck with ogors, grots (moonclan or gitmob) or greenskinz orruks. the ogors felt like the best fit for the theme. Maybe someday I'll be able to ally wolf riders to BCR allegiance or something

Edited July 21, 2018 by WindstormSCR

[Thostos]

Something I have toyed around with ever since points were added to the game,of course adjusted for 2.0 now.

 Never built my "Thunder Rukk" list even though I purchased the models a couple years back,,but this is what im considering now,,perhaps some experience BCR players can comment if this is even viable now.

 Huskard on Thundertusk  360

 Huskard on Thundertusk  360

 Huskard on Thundertusk  360

 Huskard on Thundertusk  360

 

 

  40 Orruks SnB  280

 20 Moonclan arrow grots 130

 20 Moonclan arrow grots 130

 

 1980 pts

 

 This used to be done with arrer boyz and sometimes fitting in the Kunning Rukk,,of course now thats not viable due to points.I would probably also go with the Hysh artifact that absorbs spell mortal wounds.

  I believe that the Huskards would actually autoheal each hero phase as long as all 4 were alive?

 

Edited July 22, 2018 by Thostos

[Girgutz StormStompa]

Im really interested in doing a mixed destruction force, how does the below army sound? The idea behind it is fairly simple, casters castle up near Idol and unleash magical supremecy and I walk forward to objectives/ smash and bash my way to victory (With a slight seasoning of TWANGA TWANGA TWANGA to help soften/pin cusion the enemy.) Not sure about General/artifacts yet.

 

Allegiance: Destruction - Mortal Realm: Ghur
LEADERS
Moonclan Grot Shaman (80)
Moonclan Grot Shaman (80)
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Orruk Megaboss (140)
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)
UNITS
10 x Orruks (80) -Choppas & Shields
20 x Moonclan Grots (130) -Pokin Spears & Moon Shields - Bad Moon Icon
20 x Moonclan Grots (130) -Bows & Slittas - Bad Moon Icon
5 x Orruk Brutes (180) - 1 x  Gore Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (180) - 1 x  Gore Choppas
BEHEMOTHS
Aleguzzler Gargant (160)
Aleguzzler Gargant (160)
Rogue Idol (400)
ENDLESS SPELLS
Chronomantic Cogs (60)
Soulsnare Shackles (20)
TOTAL: 2000/2000     EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 0     WOUNDS: 147
LEADERS: 5/6    BATTLELINES: 3 (3+)    BEHEMOTHS: 3/4    ARTILLERY: 0/4
ARTEFACTS: 0/1    ALLIES: 0/400

[kenshin620]

Don't forget that if you're using a mixed destruction force thats all orruks and grots (plus aleguzzlers) you can use Stoneklaw's Gutstompas allegiance. It may be random but at least you can squeeze a bit more juice from the mixed list! And destruction could use all the help it can get!

[Milandro]

3 hours ago, kenshin620 said:

Don't forget that if you're using a mixed destruction force thats all orruks and grots (plus aleguzzlers) you can use Stoneklaw's Gutstompas allegiance. It may be random but at least you can squeeze a bit more juice from the mixed list! And destruction could use all the help it can get!

This works in 2.0? Unless I'm using non standard battleline troops why wouldn't I choose this alligance ?

[gnaleinad]

11 hours ago, Thostos said:

  I believe that the Huskards would actually autoheal each hero phase as long as all 4 were alive?

Yeah, AUTO HEALING D3!

I have 2 list to share:

1k list:
Allegiance: Destruction, Mortal Realm: Aqshy
Frostlord on Stonehorn (420) - General, Trait: Wild Fury, Artefact: Thermalrider Cloak 
Huskard on Thundertusk (360) - Blood Vulture
20 x Gitmob Grots (100) - Bows & Slashas
20 x Gitmob Grots (100) - Spears & Shields
Total: 980 / 1000, Extra Command Points: 0, Wounds: 65

No fancy trick here, just straight up pain plan.
A 16" movement FLYING Frostlord on Stonehorn is enough to ruin your opponent day(max 28"with run+destruction move).
Wild fury gives your Frostlord 5 attacks (or 6, after taking 5-6 damage), potentially 15 damage.
Thundertusk always scare heroes, and the healing ability can keep your Frostlord killing things longer.
40 little grots with their +2 to run is always good to win the objectives for you. 

2k list:
Allegiance: Destruction, Mortal Realm: Aqshy
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (80) - General, Trait: Ravager
Grot Warboss (100) - Moon Prodder & Giant Cave Squig
Troggoth Hag (380) - Artefact: Cleansing Brooch
Frostlord on Stonehorn (420) - Artefact: Thermalrider Cloak 
Icebrow Hunter (140) 
6 x Frost Sabres (120)
2 x Frost Sabres (40)
40 x Moonclan Grots (260) - Pokin Spears & Moon Shields
10 x Orruks (80) - Pair of Choppas
10 x Orruks (80) - Pair of Choppas
Beastclaw's Skal Battalions (150)
Chronomantic Cogs (60)
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (40)
Total: 1950 / 2000, Extra Command Points: 2, Wounds: 120
 

Spoiler

This is a mix bag, with 8 deployments you will not be able to choose who go first in most of your game.
But no one will want you to go first, so get ready to go second.
So deploy defensively.
Use your Orruks as meat shield wrap around the Stonehorn, so that it cannot die to an alpha strike. Put those Grots behind the Stonehorn.
You do not want a Shadowstriking Tenenbrael Shard with a Sword of Judgement popping on your Stonehorn.
Actually the real threat is your 40 Grots, however the plan is only really good after your Chronomantic Cogs is summoned. IF your opponent also summoned one please thank him politely. Thus this "Protect the Stornhorn" distraction tactic is important, you want to look like you cannot lose that Stonehorn(actually you really cannot).

Your flying Stonehorn will be the magnet of your opponent attention, just remember to tell your opponent how the maximum threat distance is 44"(destruction move+cog+artefact+run+charge).
Fly him out turn one to destroy your opponent highest value asset or lock shooting units or both.
Letting him die while killing things is the best way to go (should take them a turn I hope).

Run up your Troggoth Hag and Orruks and take those objectives! Try to cast that Geminids of Uhl-Gysh!
Keep those Grots close behind your Troggoth Hag, and keep your Grot Shaman & Warboss close behind those Grots. 

Once the Chronomantic Cogs is up, popup your Skal Icebrow Hunter with those +5 to charge Frost Sabres and kill some wizards or lockdown some shooting units.
If you can store 4 command points by turn two, unleash them all on the Moonclan Spear Grots to run and charge(Fungoid Shaman command ability) and do 8 damage on a 6+ to wound(3 use of Grot Warboss command ability).
With +2 move, +2 run, +2 charge, +2 to wound and 2" attacks, those 40 Grot can cover min14" to max29" and poke many things to death. Many things will die. 

If you haven't unleash the Geminids of Uhl-Gysh, cast it through your Grots if you have to, and charge into combat with your Orruks and Troggoth Hag.

IF by some chance you have lesser to deploy and can actually go first, just make sure the Chronomantic Cogs is out. 

I believe it they will be good against most army. Both list can win you many games I believe, before your opponent knows how to shut it down.

[kenshin620]

1 hour ago, Milandro said:

This works in 2.0? Unless I'm using non standard battleline troops why wouldn't I choose this alligance ?

As far as everyone can tell, all the allegiances from  Firestorm are matched play legal in 2.0 but check with your opponent before hand. Granted this is mostly for Destruction and Order.

 

Also Ogors are left out of Stoneklaw's.

Edited July 22, 2018 by kenshin620

[EddieWouldGo]

Interesting topic, I'm playing a 1250 pts local tournament on Sunday, and I'm currently considering two lists:

Allegiance: Destruction
LEADERS
Moonclan Grot Shaman (80)
Troggoth Hag (380) - General - Command Trait : Wild Fury - Artefact : Rockeye
UNITS
4 x Mournfang Pack (320) -Gargant Hackers
20 x Moonclan Grots (130) -Pokin Spears & Moon Shields - Bad Moon Icon
3 x Grot Fanatics (100)
20 x Moonclan Grots (130) -Pokin Spears & Moon Shields - Bad Moon Icon
ENDLESS SPELLS
Aethervoid Pendulum (40)
Chronomantic Cogs (60)
TOTAL: 1240/1250     EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 0     WOUNDS: 87
LEADERS: 2/4    BATTLELINES: 2 (2+)    BEHEMOTHS: 1/2    ARTILLERY: 0/2
ARTEFACTS: 1/1    ALLIES: 0/200

_______

 

Allegiance: Destruction
LEADERS
Moonclan Grot Shaman (80)
Tyrant (160) - General - Command Trait : Wild Fury - Great Gutgouger - Artefact : Rockeye
Butcher (140)
Butcher (140)
UNITS
4 x Mournfang Pack (320) -Gargant Hackers
20 x Moonclan Grots (130) -Pokin Spears & Moon Shields - Bad Moon Icon
3 x Grot Fanatics (100)
10 x Orruks (80) -Pair of Choppas
ENDLESS SPELLS
Aethervoid Pendulum (40)
Chronomantic Cogs (60)
TOTAL: 1250/1250     EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 0     WOUNDS: 83
LEADERS: 4/4    BATTLELINES: 2 (2+)    BEHEMOTHS: 0/2    ARTILLERY: 0/2
ARTEFACTS: 1/1    ALLIES: 0/200

 

The idea is to possibly use Cogs turn one and get a cauldron-buffed unit of mournfangs to charge ( or in case of the first list, go for the Rockeye/debuff from the hag in the second turn on the charged unit) and score with grots. Having two units of moonclan seems fun to me on paper as it keeps your oponent guessing which one is holding the fanatics. As for the Pendulum, i just want to try the new offensive endless spells and this one seems like its least likely to backfire.

any comments or criticizm welcome.

 

[Malakree]

6 hours ago, EddieWouldGo said:

Moonclan Grot Shaman (80)

Have you got a fungoid instead? He's close to strictly better.

[Davros]

I like your lists quite a lot, you do have some nice synergies in the lists.

Only thing i would say in regards to artifacts is have a look at some of the realm artifacts, espesially on the Tyrant.

The combo you have on the hag looks good, haven't played any games with her so i can't comment too much.

But with the tyrant look at running Might is right as the trait for +1 to wound and Ghyrstrike from Ghyran for +1 to hit and wound. Would mean the Gutgourger triggers on a 4+ to wound or a 3+ if you are lucky and get the correct big name. 

[EddieWouldGo]

6 hours ago, Malakree said:

Have you got a fungoid instead? He's close to strictly better.

I dont have either official model, thankfully my local shop is ok (and even in some way encourages) with alternatives, conversions etc. so its not a problem. My math sucks, but i had a gut feeling that a straight +2 is better then one full reroll on a difficulty of 7 (cogs). Guess im wrong though:)

 

5 hours ago, Davros said:

But with the tyrant look at running Might is right as the trait for +1 to wound and Ghyrstrike from Ghyran for +1 to hit and wound. Would mean the Gutgourger triggers on a 4+ to wound or a 3+ if you are lucky and get the correct big name. 

That, my friend, is a great tip. Somehow i just looked at all the realm artefacts looking for a way to buff the mournfang a i completly looked over the weapons.

Just wanted to ask a question about the cogs....line of sight is needed for dispell right? But not for the cogs +movement effect? As in, i can cast cogs behind terrain and it will still work on units that can see the spell model?

Also, did anyone try running the Overtyrant, Goldtooth and/or Rhinox Riders from the old compendium?

[Davros]

43 minutes ago, EddieWouldGo said:

Just wanted to ask a question about the cogs....line of sight is needed for dispell right? But not for the cogs +movement effect? As in, i can cast cogs behind terrain and it will still work on units that can see the spell model?

With Endless spells/spells in general no line of sight is needed to unbind the cast just need to be withis 30inch.

To use the cogs wizard needs to be within 9inch to alter time, no line of sight needed and effects the whole board until your next hero phase.

To dispel the endless spell the wizard needs to be within 30inch and be able to see the spell.

[EddieWouldGo]

3 minutes ago, Davros said:

With Endless spells/spells in general no line of sight is needed to unbind the cast just need to be withis 30inch. 

--------------------------------------------

To dispel the endless spell the wizard needs to be within 30inch and be able to see the spell.

Im kind of new to this AoS stuff so im afraid im missing something here....but isnt this a bit self-contradictory?

 

EDIT: Oooh i get it now. TIL dispell and unbind are NOT synonyms:)

Edited July 25, 2018 by EddieWouldGo
stupidity

[michu]

Unbind and dispell are two different things. Unbind means "stop the casting of spell" and dispell means "remove working Endless Spell".

[Davros]

Just now, EddieWouldGo said:

Im kind of new to this AoS stuff so im afraid im missing something here....but isnt this a bit self-contradictory?

Ahh you see, this is where GW gets you. Unbinding happens when an opponent casts a spell in their hero phase, giving you a chance to negate it.

But Dispelling is to remove an endless spell model off the table in your hero phase, this also costs the wizard doing it a spell cast attempt.

So they can have different rules even if they are very similar. Should they be the same? Probably. Are they? Sadly No.

[amysrevenge]

6 hours ago, Davros said:

Ahh you see, this is where GW gets you. Unbinding happens when an opponent casts a spell in their hero phase, giving you a chance to negate it.

But Dispelling is to remove an endless spell model off the table in your hero phase, this also costs the wizard doing it a spell cast attempt.

So they can have different rules even if they are very similar. Should they be the same? Probably. Are they? Sadly No.

To be fair, they are completely different things and properly have different names - but because of the  legacy of editions past, their names should probably be reversed.  It is nigh-universal that people refer to the act of unbinding as "dispelling" because that's what the equivalent action was called in every previous iteration of the game.  So we colloquially are already using both "dispel" and "unbind" to refer to the same action, where until endless spells came around "dispel" was not a thing in AoS at all.  So now we're stuck with a common informal usage directly contradicting the new correct usage.