Using Reikenor as an Ally in LoN

[jjb070707]

Good Afternoon,

In a moment to weakness, I preordered Reikenor this past weekend at a GW store. His model looks amazing, and as primarily a Legions of Nagash player (leaning toward Legion of Blood) I'd like to match him to my vampiric color scheme and fit him into some games. We usually play at 1250, or 2000. Any advice on where and how to play him would be appreciated. 

I tend to have a basic structure of lists as:

40 Skeletons with a Necromancer

5 Wolf Dire wolf squads to fill battleline

Vampire lord(s) on zombie dragon or the named variety

1-2 x 5Blood Knights

I also have a squad of vargheists/crypt flayers for when or if I ally in a Ghoul king on Terrorgheist instead.

Thanks,

Joe

[ianob]

He's really good, especially in the new missions, and especially if you dont already have Nagash or Arkhan. Using his +3 to force through an important spell is very good, and he's fast, durable, and fighty enough to be able to win fights vs other characters on objectives in missions such as Duality and PoAP. He's fast enough to fly forward to a backfield gravesite and raise a unit somewhere your opponent doesnt want one, and has a small base so he can do this whilst fitting easier than a Zombie Dragon or similar (this one depends on whether you think Death allies can legally use LoN allegiance abilities, though)

So as to the question of where to play him, the answer is "wherever you need him on the mission you're playing" - he's highly versatile and well costed.

[Sception]

I don't know about using him to raise units from gravesites.  The bit about 'allied units not benefiting from allegiance abilities' to me implies that he wouldn't be able to do that, in the same way that I expect you won't be able to heal or deploy bladegheists via gravesites, or bring myrnmourns back via endless legions.  Granted, it's still a bit of an open question, but that's how my area is playing it so far, pending official faq.  If Reikenor /doesn't/ interact with any of the LoN allegiance abilities, do you still find him to be a worthwhile investment?  I like him a lot, model-wise and rules-wise, but without artefacts, spell lore access, etc, I have to wonder if a plain old vampire lord, winged or on nightmare, might be a better choice.  Then again, the casting bonus and ability to snipe models out of their units with the corpse candles might be enough to justify him regardless.

[jjb070707]

Thank you for your input, I am really excited to use this hero.  I currently don't have any endless spells, but with the ability to cast reliably, I was thinking of getting some. Especially when/if the LoN get their own spells. Otherwise, I don't think his unique spell is important enough to use the +3 instead of a +1 on.

What is this about Reikenor not getting to use his spell lore? Do I pick from the deathmage/vampire lore instead of Nighthaunt lore when generating a spell for him if I'm using him in the Legions of Nagash? I guess my initial understanding was that he would use his lore and I'd pick something like the life drain or heal for him to cast on himself? Or do I get no spells with him when he is an ally? Would he even be allowed to cast a theoretical "Legion of Nagash" endless spell? AS a corollary, would Arkhan be allowed to cast a Nighthaunt endless spell if he was the ally of a Nighthaunt army, and would that imply the inverse in this scenario?

Thanks,

Joe

[Sception]

faction lore access is an allegiance ability.  Allied units do not benefit from allegiance abilities, and thus do not have access to faction lores at all.  In a nighthaunt army, Reikenor can select a single spell from the nighthaunt lore, in addition to any other spells he knows.  As an ally in a Legion of Nagash army, he has only the specific spells listed on his warscroll, plus any realm of battle spells that are in effect in your game and any endless spells that you paid points out of your army to access.  This doesn't make him unusable at all, his signature spell is pretty decent, and the potential +3 to cast, combined with his high mobility, makes him a good platform for any of your endless spells.

[jjb070707]

Thank you for the clarification.  Would it be prudent to start including space in my lists for endless spells? For example I have this list idea at 1250:

40 Skeletons 280

Necromancer 110

Reikenor (Ally) 180

15 Dire Wolves 180

5 Blood Knights 240

5 Blood Knights 240 

For 1230 points. It would be possible to drop 5 dire wolves, giving me 1170 and the ability to take most endless spells in the game. 

I've also never used or fought against an endless spell, so their usefulness is purely theoretical to me. I also am not really sure which legion would be most beneficial to this set up, as the LoB makes my beloved cavalry much more effective, but the only hero able to take relics and traits is the squishy necromancer, and the artifacts are much more suited to turning a zombie dragon riding vampire lord into a blender. 

EDIT: Current plan would be the Aura of Dark Majesty and Amulet of Screams for Necromancer as defensive traits, which feel like a waste but are better than nothing

Thanks,

Joe

[PUFNSTUF]

I fully plan to use reiknor in my nagash list with arkhan. Lots of spell casters but he can be a fast flanking annoyance that needs to be dealt with.

[Sception]

Proposed list looks fine.  Could probably get a better defensive item out of the realm lists, but I'm not familiar enough with them yet to suggest anything.  In a legion of blood list, I'd really be looking to get a dragon lord in there before worrying about allied casters.  And a legion of blood list not led by a vampire of some kind just feels off, no matter how many blood knights are in there.

In this particular case, I'd recommend a mounted vamp lord to lead your army instead of reikenor at the current points value.  Add the grimhailer, maybe some thematically matching chainrasps as additional battleline, and most especially a proper dragon lord as you expand into higher points ranges.  That said, this advice is more aesthetic & narrative based than competitive.  I don't really have enough experience with either the Grimhailer or LoBlood lists in general to speak with authority there.

[ianob]

Bear in mind that Reikenor CAN use spells from either LoN lore right now. You can pick one totally legally. Not everyone thinks that this is intended and it may change in an faq, but it’s perfectly legal to give reikenor spells from the LoN book when he’s an ally.

[Gumbalina]

9 minutes ago, ianob said:

Bear in mind that Reikenor CAN use spells from either LoN lore right now. You can pick one totally legally. Not everyone thinks that this is intended and it may change in an faq, but it’s perfectly legal to give reikenor spells from the LoN book when he’s an ally.

How can he pick a spell?  The limitations on the LoN spell pores are one is for soulblight casters the other is for deathmages so none of the night haunt units can take any of those spells.   

[ianob]

You can find plenty of discussions o this forum here already about the whys and wherefores, but the jist of it is that it says

 

1) All Wizards in the army get a spell from one of the lores

2) Deathmages get Lore of the Dead only

3) Vampires get Lore of Vampires only 

As neither two or three override one, death wizards that aren’t  deathmages or  vampires can take either.

[jjb070707]

38 minutes ago, Sception said:

Proposed list looks fine.  Could probably get a better defensive item out of the realm lists, but I'm not familiar enough with them yet to suggest anything.  In a legion of blood list, I'd really be looking to get a dragon lord in there before worrying about allied casters.  And a legion of blood list not led by a vampire of some kind just feels off, no matter how many blood knights are in there.

In this particular case, I'd recommend a mounted vamp lord to lead your army instead of reikenor at the current points value.  Add the grimhailer, maybe some thematically matching chainrasps as additional battleline, and most especially a proper dragon lord as you expand into higher points ranges.  That said, this advice is more aesthetic & narrative based than competitive.  I don't really have enough experience with either the Grimhailer or LoBlood lists in general to speak with authority there.

I agree with you wholeheartedly from a thematic standpoint. My standard 1250 includes :

VLoZD 440 (Sanguine Blur, Orb of Enchantment)

5 Blood Knights 240

15 Dire Wolves 180

40 Skeletons 280

Necromancer 110

and thematically, as they all wield spears, are quite striking together and effective. I was looking for variance in using Reikenor occasionally, and was postulating ways to fit him in, as him+5 blood knights are equivalent to a VLoZD in points roughly, and I'd probably lose too many bodies to go something like:

ZLoZD 440 (Aura of Dark Majesty, Orb of Enchantment)

5 Dire Wolves 60

5 Dire Wolves 60

Reikenor 180

5 Blood Knights 240

5 Blood Knights 240

Which was and is probably the coolest looking force on the table top, but with absolutely no ability to take objectives other than through extreme damage.

If you were of the opinion that the second force might still be playable, I'd love to give it a try, or if someone just wanted to play "kill points" it'd probably thrive.

[Clewz]

Sorry if I'm missing something but how do you get him as an ally for LON?  The soulblight allegiance seems to be the only one that you can do it with

[Sception]

17 minutes ago, Clewz said:

Sorry if I'm missing something but how do you get him as an ally for LON?  The soulblight allegiance seems to be the only one that you can do it with

General's Handbook 2018 adds Nighthaunt as legal allies for all four of the Legions of Nagash.

[Clewz]

Ah brilliant

[Captain Roderick]

1 hour ago, ianob said:

1) All Wizards in the army get a spell from one of the lores

2) Deathmages get Lore of the Dead only

3) Vampires get Lore of Vampires only 

As neither two or three override one, death wizards that aren’t  deathmages or  vampires can take either.

Now I've seen this used on the new nighthaunt heroes that can be taken in LoN, and rightly so - they can pick from either lore. 

But Reikenor is nighthaunt only, so surely as an ally can never benefit from allegiance abilities? The extra spell quite clearly is an allegiance ability. Yes the wording in the tome is dubious, but I'm pretty sure that the overall ruling still applies. 

I'd be looking out for a clarification naming allies in a LoN force as an exception to that rule, rather than playing that allied death wizards get the benefit. Because without it being specifically stated in LoN errata for AoS 2.0 that you can ignore the "no allegiance for allies rule", what's the point in the rule? 

(my first time giving my opinion in an AoS rules discussion, whoop!) 

[ianob]

You know what, you’re 100% right. Ignore me!

Congrats on your first rules discussion, haha!

[Captain Roderick]

1 hour ago, ianob said:

You know what, you’re 100% right. Ignore me!

Congrats on your first rules discussion, haha!

Why thank you!

It's quite hard to type with steepled fingers but trust me I am trying so hard right now

[Undeadly]

3 hours ago, ianob said:

Bear in mind that Reikenor CAN use spells from either LoN lore right now. You can pick one totally legally. Not everyone thinks that this is intended and it may change in an faq, but it’s perfectly legal to give reikenor spells from the LoN book when he’s an ally.

You can't take Reiknor in a LoN army, period, so he gains access to neither. Only Guardians of Souls can pick from the two.

[ianob]

39 minutes ago, Captain Roderick said:

Why thank you!

It's quite hard to type with steepled fingers but trust me I am trying so hard right now

Throw in a “MUAHAHAHAHA” for good measure!

 

31 minutes ago, Undeadly said:

You can't take Reiknor in a LoN army, period, so he gains access to neither. Only Guardians of Souls can pick from the two.

Of course you can, NH are LoN allies.

[AlphaKennyThing]

I'm pretty sure that only the Nighthaunt units added to the Legions of Nagash army list are able to pick spells from the lores. Taking Reikenor as an ally doesn't grant him access to those, as he's an ally. He has his own spells to choose from in the Nighthaunt book, which you gain access to by playing a Nighthaunt army. I'm almost certain this was the way it was intended to be played, so I wouldn't plan your army list and pin your hopes on what is a dubious technicality until is clarified.

That said, if it turns out he can, then awesome - the model is great, and I'll be picking one up!

I'll still periodically include him in my LoN army as an ally either way.

[arka0415]

Seeing as it seems Reikenor cannot take additional spells in LoN (leaving him with just Arcane Bolt, Mystic Shield, and his special Wraithstorm spell), does that make his +3 to cast very relevant? Or is the idea to use him with Endless spells?

[Gumbalina]

His unique spell is pretty good as an easy 2d3 mortal wounds is pretty tasty as well as the increased casting helps make the super arcane bolt

[ianob]

9 hours ago, arka0415 said:

Seeing as it seems Reikenor cannot take additional spells in LoN (leaving him with just Arcane Bolt, Mystic Shield, and his special Wraithstorm spell), does that make his +3 to cast very relevant? Or is the idea to use him with Endless spells?

+3 to cast is "best in class" so it's always very relevant. It can even force a spell through an enemy Nagash, something few casters in the game can reliably do. Also +1 to cast and an auto mortal to something (especially since it can unit split on a whim) is great too!

Also bear in mind that Arcane bolt does D3 wounds on a 10+, so a +3 makes it do D3 wounds on a 7 (you'd probably just cast Wraithstorm anyway but worth pointing out)

His Wraithstorm is really good. Auto-casting Arcane Bolt as an option to finish off a 1w hero, casting Mystic Shield with no failure chance at all is good, generally yeah, it's just a great ability.

[Gumbalina]

1 hour ago, ianob said:

+3 to cast is "best in class" so it's always very relevant. It can even force a spell through an enemy Nagash, something few casters in the game can reliably do. Also +1 to cast and an auto mortal to something (especially since it can unit split on a whim) is great too!

Also bear in mind that Arcane bolt does D3 wounds on a 10+, so a +3 makes it do D3 wounds on a 7 (you'd probably just cast Wraithstorm anyway but worth pointing out)

His Wraithstorm is really good. Auto-casting Arcane Bolt as an option to finish off a 1w hero, casting Mystic Shield with no failure chance at all is good, generally yeah, it's just a great ability.

The only case you'd cast arcane bolt instead is the extra 6" range over wraithstorm.