ianob Posted July 19, 2018 Author Share Posted July 19, 2018 3 hours ago, Lwatt1 said: Thanks for the breakdown, what spells did you run on everything is there anything you would have changed? Spells are all on the army list on TTT, I’ve added Amaranthine Orb back now instead of Decrepify and moved VT to the vampire lord for another source of healing for him. 2 hours ago, tyel said: Thanks for the episode! Found it quite interesting. Cheers! Glad you enjoyed it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyel Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 @ianobwould you mind posting your list here for easier reference? Would be awesome. Can understand if you wish not to, ofc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianob Posted July 19, 2018 Author Share Posted July 19, 2018 Sure! Nagash (Amethystine Pinions, Fading Vigour, Amaranthine Orb) Necromancer (Overwhelming Dread) Vampire Lord w/ Wings (Vile Transference) [Lens of Refraction] 30 Grimghasts 40 Skeletons 5 Dire Wolves 5 Dire Wolves Umbral Spellportal Soulsnare Shackles 1890 2CP (copied a bit weird that, apologies) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oogje Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Orb over spectral grasp? How big was spell portal for you during the day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianob Posted July 20, 2018 Author Share Posted July 20, 2018 I’m probably 20? games in with Nagash now total and spell portal is everything. I’ve rolled snake eyes and had opponents unbind it a couple of times, I’ve unbound opposing nagash portals a couple of times, and it pretty much shuts everything down. Spectral Grasp doesn’t have Orb’s reach and forces you into putting your portal in (potentially) suboptimal positions for other spells. Also Orb is one of your few spells that can break through a Lens if you need to. Orb is great at sniping critical characters inside or behind screens. I don’t honestly thing that Spectral Grasp is in contention unless you’re also running Arkhan. I missed Orb a lot when I took it out of my list, even though I hate missing those 4+ with a passion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkfine Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 I think this speaks to how terribly designed magic is. At the end of the day it is just Farkle, if you Farkle better than the other guy you probably win. That GW decided to double down on a useless and shallow mechanic was a bad day for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianob Posted July 20, 2018 Author Share Posted July 20, 2018 27 minutes ago, Darkfine said: I think this speaks to how terribly designed magic is. At the end of the day it is just Farkle, if you Farkle better than the other guy you probably win. That GW decided to double down on a useless and shallow mechanic was a bad day for me. I don’t think it’s badly designed any more than the rest of the game being “roll better dice than the other guy particularly on the two critical turn rolls” is to be honest. It’s just the mirror match, and in particular, Hand of Dust (spellportal or not). I’d like to see them replace it with like “3D6 mortal to a single model” or something, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 The chamce if missing even after you successfully cast orb is just so painful, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianob Posted July 20, 2018 Author Share Posted July 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, Sception said: The chamce if missing even after you successfully cast orb is just so painful, though. Its horrible. And the 1s on the D6 after you do hit too. I'm slowly coming round to the fact though, that if you cast it enough times, hitting enough multi-targets (good mirror placement often nets you two buff heroes), getting the odd double cast, it does average out very quickly on T1-T2 and I've oneshot or near-enough oneshot enough heroes with it now in multiple games that even if it doesn't perform every game it does perform enough to increase your percentage points across an event. I also cant understate the value of having more tools to kill lens-bearers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oogje Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 That's some solid arguing in favor of orb. I removed it because I get depressed by the 4+ rolling a 1 ? But I forget the high rolling 7+ MW that I did after double casting it ? Thanks for the info and definitely forgot about it poking through a mirror is a huge upside! Do you consider the mirror to be the starting point of the line? Or did you do really awkward angle measurements ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke1705 Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 As an Archaon player, I am totally fine with the Nagash meta #getinmysword Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianob Posted July 20, 2018 Author Share Posted July 20, 2018 13 minutes ago, Luke1705 said: As an Archaon player, I am totally fine with the Nagash meta #getinmysword Archaon is really good against Nagash. He still gets eaten alive by Skeletons or Grimghasts though. Right tool for the job innit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke1705 Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Just now, ianob said: Archaon is really good against Nagash. He still gets eaten alive by Skeletons or Grimghasts though. Right tool for the job innit You know how it is. That's what the marauders are for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richelieu Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 4 hours ago, ianob said: Its horrible. And the 1s on the D6 after you do hit too. I'm slowly coming round to the fact though, that if you cast it enough times, hitting enough multi-targets (good mirror placement often nets you two buff heroes), getting the odd double cast, it does average out very quickly on T1-T2 and I've oneshot or near-enough oneshot enough heroes with it now in multiple games that even if it doesn't perform every game it does perform enough to increase your percentage points across an event. I also cant understate the value of having more tools to kill lens-bearers. It's very good at screening too. Whenever I play against it there is always that voice in the back of my head warning me to stay away from the potential devastation. As far as tools to kill lens bearers, maybe I'm misunderstanding, but I'm not sure how orb helps kill them. Edit: never mind, I see now, it does d6 mortals so there is a good chance it will still inflict mortals despite the d3 reduction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanHammer-darren Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 So are you measuring distance and origin of line from the portal? Technically the portal increases the range but the spell has to join a line between a point and the closest point on the caster. I don’t believe anywhere that it indicates that the portal becomes the caster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richelieu Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 16 minutes ago, CanHammer-darren said: So are you measuring distance and origin of line from the portal? Technically the portal increases the range but the spell has to join a line between a point and the closest point on the caster. I don’t believe anywhere that it indicates that the portal becomes the caster. Please explain how this is in any way different than arcane bolt. Both spells explicitly reference a distance to the caster. Same as the ridiculous argument that endless spells can't be cast through the portal. Substitute the second portal for the caster when measuring for your spell and it works perfectly, no questions asked. People are going out of their way trying to make it more complicated than it needs to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianob Posted July 20, 2018 Author Share Posted July 20, 2018 3 hours ago, CanHammer-darren said: So are you measuring distance and origin of line from the portal? Technically the portal increases the range but the spell has to join a line between a point and the closest point on the caster. I don’t believe anywhere that it indicates that the portal becomes the caster. I’m not going to bother arguing this because the wording is so unclear and inconsistent that it’s a pretty pointless. Suffice to say I think it’s fine, and we’ll see what GW’s errata says when it comes, but PLEASE let’s not ****** up another thread with circular spellportal discussions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Bob Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 14 hours ago, Darkfine said: I think this speaks to how terribly designed magic is. At the end of the day it is just Farkle, if you Farkle better than the other guy you probably win. That GW decided to double down on a useless and shallow mechanic was a bad day for me. I think the goal was more a cash grab than poorly thoughtout game mechanics. Currently I’m torn between buying a set to support the local game store or just doing some 3D printing. Jervis Johnson’s vision for AOS was the old beer-and-pretzels model. We the player base more or less dragged GW deeper into match play in order to maintain some kind of control. That and it doesn’t hurt for them to be printing a General’s Hand Book every year for some easy cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lwatt1 Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 15 hours ago, ianob said: I’m probably 20? games in with Nagash now total and spell portal is everything. I’ve rolled snake eyes and had opponents unbind it a couple of times, I’ve unbound opposing nagash portals a couple of times, and it pretty much shuts everything down. Spectral Grasp doesn’t have Orb’s reach and forces you into putting your portal in (potentially) suboptimal positions for other spells. Also Orb is one of your few spells that can break through a Lens if you need to. Orb is great at sniping critical characters inside or behind screens. I don’t honestly thing that Spectral Grasp is in contention unless you’re also running Arkhan. I missed Orb a lot when I took it out of my list, even though I hate missing those 4+ with a passion Ian with the number of games with Nagash what things in the meta/ current strong builds will he struggle or you have struggled with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianob Posted July 21, 2018 Author Share Posted July 21, 2018 8 hours ago, Lwatt1 said: Ian with the number of games with Nagash what things in the meta/ current strong builds will he struggle or you have struggled with? So far I think new Stormcast (beatable vs average players, good players might walk over you, especially if they have mindlock), Sylvaneth that arent pure melee. Anything with very high sustained damage that doesn’t rely on a single unit, has speed or teleporting, and is reasonably resilient, that can hold objectives whilst keeping pressure on you. Anythung with shooting that rolls well can be quite bad for Nagash, especially if they go first. Armies with enough alpha to wipe the reapers and keep up the pressure can lock you down quite hard and put you behind. Anything that goes first against you on BPoV, armies with better board coverage and good resilience on starstrike, that sort of thing too can be quite bad. We don’t have the best board coverage and we can be easily beaten by tough armies with good board control, or armies capable of very early board control that can hold it long enough to rack up VP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mephisto Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 1 hour ago, ianob said: So far I think new Stormcast (beatable vs average players, good players might walk over you, especially if they have mindlock), Sylvaneth that arent pure melee. Anything with very high sustained damage that doesn’t rely on a single unit, has speed or teleporting, and is reasonably resilient, that can hold objectives whilst keeping pressure on you. Anythung with shooting that rolls well can be quite bad for Nagash, especially if they go first. Armies with enough alpha to wipe the reapers and keep up the pressure can lock you down quite hard and put you behind. Anything that goes first against you on BPoV, armies with better board coverage and good resilience on starstrike, that sort of thing too can be quite bad. We don’t have the best board coverage and we can be easily beaten by tough armies with good board control, or armies capable of very early board control that can hold it long enough to rack up VP. Did you just name like 65% of the armies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillofNagash Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 What’s the name of your podcast? Also I don’t see your signature or any link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianob Posted July 21, 2018 Author Share Posted July 21, 2018 41 minutes ago, Mephisto said: Did you just name like 65% of the armies? I don’t think so. Seraphon, Tzeentch, Nurgle, DoK, Idoneth are all popular and struggle with us. Tier 2 armies, which often have some good matchups vs tier 2 armies, we beat all of them quite consistently (we did in v1 too tbh). But yeh, most tier 1 armies have game against Nagash. We’re never choosing first turn against most armies. He is low on heroes for hero based missions. He is low on units for board coverage. He is weak against things that can reach him without magic because he isn’t tough, and things that make you screen deep basically take one of your two units out of the game (if you even run two). We have limited mobility compared to teleporting and fast armies. I’m not saying these are all bad matchups, but they are all tough and involve a lot of player skill and, obviously, luck. Some missions, turn rolls, and opponent combinations can be very difficult but that goes for most armies in AoS. It’s why either mass unit spam or alpha armies are generally the safest bet for tournament winning lists in AoS imho - worst case, they can beat anything on a coinflip, and you only need to win 5 games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianob Posted July 21, 2018 Author Share Posted July 21, 2018 16 minutes ago, WillofNagash said: What’s the name of your podcast? Also I don’t see your signature or any link. It’s called JustSaying. No idea why you can’t see my sig! Heres an iTunes link: https://itunes.apple.com/gb/podcast/justsaying/id1394588350?mt=2 And general link: http://podcast.justplaygames.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillofNagash Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 Sweet, thanks, any chance you could post your list here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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