Cavalry or hosts? - Nighthaunts - 1st 2k list

[Maxo Bug]

Hi, guys,

I have been playing Nighthaunt for about a year now, or, more accurately, have been collecting and painting them.
I first started with the classical 1k list: Tormented Spirits+ Mourngul + banshee, etc. With all the new models and hype, I will be expanding my army to 2k, as my local scene is growing too. 

I have 2 (unfinished) lists in mind with things that I already have (those marked with an X), things that I will get for sure (Storm Strike, Black Coach, Reikenor) and others which I'm evaluating.

The units marked in yellow are the ones that I haven't decide on yet, and thus the batallion. Points, wounds and price (an important factor for me, since I don't have stores in my continent and have to import from another) are pretty balanced.

Obviously each one has it's pros and cons, even more if we add the Artefacts and traits into consideration. Can you help me weight them out? What do you think of these? Thanks!
 

Allegiance: Nighthaunt   Leaders [x]Tomb Banshee (80) [x]Cairn Wraith (60) [x]Lord Executioner (80) [  ]Reikenor the Grimhailer (180) []Dreadblade Harrow (100) []Dreadblade Harrow (100)      Battleline [x]3 x Spirit Hosts (120) [x]5 x Hexwraiths (160) [  ]5 x Hexwraiths (160)    Units []4 x Myrmourn Banshees (80) []4 x Glaivewraith Stalkers (60)   Behemoths [x]Mourngul (300) [  ]Black Coach (280)   Battalions Deathriders (130) +1 to charge rolls.  On a unmodified charge roll of 9+ a batallion unit can fight immediately after you complete the charge move + fight in the combat phase. This ability replaces the Wave of Terror battle trait.   Total: 1890 / 2000 Extra Command Points: 3 Allies: 0 / 400 Wounds: 89   Not in the list but available: [x]Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140) [x]Cairn Wraith (60)

Allegiance: Nighthaunt   Leaders [x]Tomb Banshee (80) [x]Cairn Wraith (60) [x]Cairn Wraith (60) [x]Lord Executioner (80) [  ]Reikenor the Grimhailer (180)   Battleline [x]3 x Spirit Hosts (120) [x]5 x Hexwraiths (160) [  ]3 x Spirit Hosts (120)  [  ]3 x Spirit Hosts (120)   Units [  ]4 x Myrmourn Banshees (80) [  ]4 x Glaivewraith Stalkers (60)   Behemoths [x]Mourngul (300) [  ]Black Coach (280)   Battalions Execution Horde (100) -1 to hit for attacks that target LORD EXECUTIONER while a SPIRIT HOST unit from this battalion is within 6" of the attacker’s unit. +1 to hit rolls for attacks made by LORD EXECUTIONER while any SPIRIT HOST units from this battalion are within 6" of the target unit.   Total: 1800 / 2000 Extra Command Points: 5 Allies: 0 / 400 Wounds: 91 Not in the list (yet) but available: [x]Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)

 

 

 

[themortalgod]

My 2¢

- Dreadblade Harrows are horrible, waste of pts, imo, all they are is a beatstick hero that doesn't bring as many wounds or beatings as 100pts of models in a unit.

- I feel the same about the Lord Executioner

- Get the banshees unit bigger, imo 12 for 210 is such a good deal. +3 to dispel is so good and the unit hits like a truck if it gets up to 2 or 3 attacks each.

- Bring the Gaurdian of Souls, it is so strong. spellcasting aside, it brings a solid aura.

- Imo bring a unit of hosts up to 6. It will let you get more mileage out of the coach's "bring D3 models back" effect.

- Don't bother with either of the battalions, both bring really lackluster benefits at a high tax. Imo, the only three decent battalions in the book are Shroudguard, Condemned, and Chainguard. The rest are either ridiculously situational, have effects that won't do much, or come at too high of a tax. 

- Dont spend additional pts on extra CP. Your army has no powerful command abilities and it won't likely ever need Inspiring Presence. If you want to spam command abilities, bring in a Knight of Shrouds (either mounted or unmounted) 

- Find pts for Cogs. +2" charge is crazy good for any army that shows up 9" away from enemy models. If you don't want to buy Malign Sorcery for just the one spell, converting some gears should be trivial. Charge odds go from 27% to 58%.

[Richelieu]

20 minutes ago, themortalgod said:

Find pts for Cogs. +2" charge is crazy good for any army that shows up 9" away from enemy models. If you don't want to buy Malign Sorcery for just the one spell, converting some gears should be trivial. Charge odds go from 27% to 58%

I'm a big fan of Reikenor generally, but especially if you're bringing cogs.  If you're paying the 60 points for them, you need to cast them when it matters and his +3 to cast gives you an 83% chance vs a 58% chance normally.  

[themortalgod]

1 hour ago, Richelieu said:

I'm a big fan of Reikenor generally, but especially if you're bringing cogs.  If you're paying the 60 points for them, you need to cast them when it matters and his +3 to cast gives you an 83% chance vs a 58% chance normally.  

Yeah, for 180pts he is so efficient. I agree totally.

[Undeadly]

41 minutes ago, themortalgod said:

Yeah, for 180pts he is so efficient. I agree totally.

Honestly, I'm still not sold on him. To me, he just seems... mediocre, aside from the spell boost. And thats almost entirely it for him. He hits about as well as a Knight of Shrouds, and can do a 2d3 MW spell, and if he's spiteful, do another MW. Now to be fair, hes decent for his point cost, but nothing about him really jumps at me. But that could be because of my own play style being a bit simplistic. 

Plus, I don't see the need for the cogs, since those also help the enemy. What does interest me more, how ever, is the CA that's built into the rules, and lets you re-roll a charge.  Although if you wanted to do a guaranteed turn 1 charge list, you could mix the cogs, that battalion, and the re-rolls for a 3+ to charges, and re-rolling failed. That'd be a pain the butt for everyone. 

[themortalgod]

2 hours ago, Undeadly said:

Honestly, I'm still not sold on him. To me, he just seems... mediocre, aside from the spell boost. And thats almost entirely it for him. He hits about as well as a Knight of Shrouds, and can do a 2d3 MW spell, and if he's spiteful, do another MW. Now to be fair, hes decent for his point cost, but nothing about him really jumps at me. But that could be because of my own play style being a bit simplistic. 

Plus, I don't see the need for the cogs, since those also help the enemy. What does interest me more, how ever, is the CA that's built into the rules, and lets you re-roll a charge.  Although if you wanted to do a guaranteed turn 1 charge list, you could mix the cogs, that battalion, and the re-rolls for a 3+ to charges, and re-rolling failed. That'd be a pain the butt for everyone. 

It does help the opponent, but remember, you control when it happens. Don't just pop the +2" move/charge thing on turn 1. Pop up it right when you drop in and intend to do a coordinated charge with your whole army. Your opponent wont get much use out of it if their entire force is surrounded and engaged, on your terms.

At first, when I saw Reikenor's warscroll, I felt the same, but then I saw his pts. For the cost of a gaunt summoner, he brings a lot of value.

Compare to Knight of Shrouds on steed:

- Reikenor costs 40pts more

- On average Reikenor will do more damage in close combat (chance at MWs and better mount vs slightly better to hit roll). Against units, reaped like corn puts him well ahead

- Reikenor is 2" faster

- Reikenor brings the only reliable spellcasting buff in the entire army. +3 to cast his spell is meh, but +3 to cast Shademist, Soul Cage, or a critical endless spell is not. 

- Reikenor has 1 wound higher

 

In comparison, KoS only upside is the command ability, which is certainly awesome, don't get me wrong. But I think at 180pts Reikenor is a steal on paper.

PS, which battalion buffs charging distance? Is there another one in soul wars or something that is not in the book? 

[KoalaSnok]

6 hours ago, themortalgod said:

PS, which battalion buffs charging distance? Is there another one in soul wars or something that is not in the book? 

Deathriders gives +1" to charge rolls in addition to reducing the requirement for charge attacks from 10 to 9.

[Inferno]

17 hours ago, Maxo Bug said:

Hi, guys,

I have been playing Nighthaunt for about a year now, or, more accurately, have been collecting and painting them.
I first started with the classical 1k list: Tormented Spirits+ Mourngul + banshee, etc. With all the new models and hype, I will be expanding my army to 2k, as my local scene is growing too. 

I have 2 (unfinished) lists in mind with things that I already have (those marked with an X), things that I will get for sure (Storm Strike, Black Coach, Reikenor) and others which I'm evaluating.

The units marked in yellow are the ones that I haven't decide on yet, and thus the batallion. Points, wounds and price (an important factor for me, since I don't have stores in my continent and have to import from another) are pretty balanced.

Obviously each one has it's pros and cons, even more if we add the Artefacts and traits into consideration. Can you help me weight them out? What do you think of these? Thanks!
 

Allegiance: Nighthaunt   Leaders [x]Tomb Banshee (80) [x]Cairn Wraith (60) [x]Lord Executioner (80) [  ]Reikenor the Grimhailer (180) []Dreadblade Harrow (100) []Dreadblade Harrow (100)      Battleline [x]3 x Spirit Hosts (120) [x]5 x Hexwraiths (160) [  ]5 x Hexwraiths (160)    Units []4 x Myrmourn Banshees (80) []4 x Glaivewraith Stalkers (60)   Behemoths [x]Mourngul (300) [  ]Black Coach (280)   Battalions Deathriders (130) +1 to charge rolls.  On a unmodified charge roll of 9+ a batallion unit can fight immediately after you complete the charge move + fight in the combat phase. This ability replaces the Wave of Terror battle trait.   Total: 1890 / 2000 Extra Command Points: 3 Allies: 0 / 400 Wounds: 89   Not in the list but available: [x]Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140) [x]Cairn Wraith (60)

Allegiance: Nighthaunt   Leaders [x]Tomb Banshee (80) [x]Cairn Wraith (60) [x]Cairn Wraith (60) [x]Lord Executioner (80) [  ]Reikenor the Grimhailer (180)   Battleline [x]3 x Spirit Hosts (120) [x]5 x Hexwraiths (160) [  ]3 x Spirit Hosts (120)  [  ]3 x Spirit Hosts (120)   Units [  ]4 x Myrmourn Banshees (80) [  ]4 x Glaivewraith Stalkers (60)   Behemoths [x]Mourngul (300) [  ]Black Coach (280)   Battalions Execution Horde (100) -1 to hit for attacks that target LORD EXECUTIONER while a SPIRIT HOST unit from this battalion is within 6" of the attacker’s unit. +1 to hit rolls for attacks made by LORD EXECUTIONER while any SPIRIT HOST units from this battalion are within 6" of the target unit.   Total: 1800 / 2000 Extra Command Points: 5 Allies: 0 / 400 Wounds: 91 Not in the list (yet) but available: [x]Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)

 

 

 

Hi,

What program do you use to make army list? 

[Maxo Bug]

On 7/14/2018 at 3:30 PM, themortalgod said:

My 2¢

- Dreadblade Harrows are horrible, waste of pts, imo, all they are is a beatstick hero that doesn't bring as many wounds or beatings as 100pts of models in a unit.

- I feel the same about the Lord Executioner

- Get the banshees unit bigger, imo 12 for 210 is such a good deal. +3 to dispel is so good and the unit hits like a truck if it gets up to 2 or 3 attacks each.

- Bring the Gaurdian of Souls, it is so strong. spellcasting aside, it brings a solid aura.

- Imo bring a unit of hosts up to 6. It will let you get more mileage out of the coach's "bring D3 models back" effect.

- Don't bother with either of the battalions, both bring really lackluster benefits at a high tax. Imo, the only three decent battalions in the book are Shroudguard, Condemned, and Chainguard. The rest are either ridiculously situational, have effects that won't do much, or come at too high of a tax. 

- Dont spend additional pts on extra CP. Your army has no powerful command abilities and it won't likely ever need Inspiring Presence. If you want to spam command abilities, bring in a Knight of Shrouds (either mounted or unmounted) 

- Find pts for Cogs. +2" charge is crazy good for any army that shows up 9" away from enemy models. If you don't want to buy Malign Sorcery for just the one spell, converting some gears should be trivial. Charge odds go from 27% to 58%.

Thank you all very much, guys. I'll take your suggestions into consideration. So far I have already decided to invest in Spirit hosts instead and kicked the Dreadblade Harrows out. The Guardian of Souls already made it to the list too.

The Lord Executioner, I know, it's not something to write home about, but thing is I like the model and already have it. Since I'm on a budget, I try to balance the money spent with rule of cool and making a "competitive" list. I mean, I will not be participating in any tournaments, but would still like to win or give a good fight.

The comand points that appeared there are not because I 'bought' them but because the list is incomplete and assigned those automatically. Even though, you seem to be forgetting about the other two new 'core'  Command Abilities ("Forward to Victory" &  "At the Double") and, from the Nighthaunt Battletome, the "Spectral Summons" one. 

I'll take a look at those cogs too, thanks!

 

11 hours ago, Inferno said:

Hi,

What program do you use to make army list? 

Hi! I just copied and pasted the Warscroll Builder text into Evernote, and there made the rest.

[AverageBoss]

I actually really like the Dreadblade, but mostly for his anytime teleport, which can literally win you games on its own.

[SleeperAgent]

I'm a fan of Lord Executioner, and a BIG fan of Spirit Hosts, but that battalion is bad for it's cost. 

Deathriders on the other hand is insane. Because everything already moves so quick and extra combats are absolutely brutal. I've gotten multiple 10+ and it wrecks.

[Maxo Bug]

I have leaned more for the second list, now something like the following (WIP, I may add those cogs if I can make some), but since I have Reikenor and still access to 2 artifacts, meaning that with a midnight Tome I could get a second wizard: Which would be best? A Spirit Torment or a Guardian of Souls?

Leaders
Reikenor the Grimhailer (180)
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)
Lord Executioner (80)
Tomb Banshee (80)
Cairn Wraith (60)

Battleline
5 x Hexwraiths (160)
3 x Spirit Hosts (120)
3 x Spirit Hosts (120)
6 x Spirit Hosts (240)

Units
4 x Myrmourn Banshees (80)
4 x Glaivewraith Stalkers (60)

Behemoths
Black Coach (280)
Mourngul (300)

Battalions
Execution Horde (100)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 101

[ravensverd]

On 7/19/2018 at 8:00 PM, Maxo Bug said:

Which would be best? A Spirit Torment or a Guardian of Souls?

a guardian imo... a wizard that gives +1 to wound rolls..  no brainer.

On 7/16/2018 at 2:21 AM, SleeperAgent said:

I'm a fan of Lord Executioner, and a BIG fan of Spirit Hosts, but that battalion is bad for it's cost. 

Deathriders on the other hand is insane. Because everything already moves so quick and extra combats are absolutely brutal. I've gotten multiple 10+ and it wrecks.

i dont totally agree... take headmans judjement, and youre hitting n 1s and wounding on 2s..   

[SleeperAgent]

3 hours ago, ravensverd said:

a guardian imo... a wizard that gives +1 to wound rolls..  no brainer.

i dont totally agree... take headmans judjement, and youre hitting n 1s and wounding on 2s..   

You cannot hit on 1's. 1's are always failures.

[TheWolfLord]

Harrows are good, having the ability to teleport around the field easily reacting to any of your opponents mistakes to attack weak targets or steal objectives is huge. Against Nighthaunt your opponent is already going to have a headache trying to anticipate where our units will arrive and how easy they can move past their front lines. This gives them another threat to consider.

 

Make a Harrow your general and it’s obscene. Teleport him then teleport a couple of units to him and charge in. No part of your opponents lines are safe.

 

 

[AverageBoss]

On 7/25/2018 at 3:05 PM, SleeperAgent said:

You cannot hit on 1's. 1's are always failures.

Negates a point of -1 to hit though, which can be potent.

[Maxo Bug]

Having seen the price of the Black Coach, no Death Riders for me. Some day I will buy one, but not gonna make my list around a far future purchase.

[GeneralZero]

The coach is versatile. You can build a list with , without and around it (bataillon). When you see the cost of the troops, the black coach is not really more expensive than a full unit (especialy when you see the chainrasp new box  )