Grots and some Dragons

[Magma]

Hi everybody

I wanted to build a magma dragon heavy list and to fill up the Battleline I wanted to go for 60 gitmob grots and 1 gitmob shaman as the hero.

3x Magma Dragon (1620)
1x Grot Shaman (80)
3x 20 Grots (300)

2000/2000 points

My question now is: should I go with shields or bows for the 60 grots? Bows are nice while they will be sitting on an objective and the shaman could buff them. But shields might be nice for more defense while bubble wrapping.
What are your opinions on that? What would be better to go for? Or is it good to spilt them up (40 bows, 20 shields)?

What do you think about the list overall? Any feedback?

Thanks for your help in advance!

[Malakree]

Grots with shields and a fungoid cave shaman instead of the gitmob shaman. The buff/bow combo is kinda irrelevant to you.

[Magma]

Thx for the reply :) how about dropping a magma dragon for 2 arachnaroks. Also are moonclans better than normal gitmobs?

List would be then:

 

2x Magma Dragon (1080)

2x Arachnarok with shaman (560)

2x20 Moonclan Grots (260)

1x20 Gitmob Grots (100)

2000/2000

 

I would go with shields on all the grots then. What do you think of this list then? :) thanks in advance!!

[Malakree]

Honestly I have no idea, you're building a fluff list which makes it hard to give a definitive say on it's power level. I imagine the vast majority of the player base have never seen one magma dragon on a board let alone three.

The original comments are made purely from the stance that a fungoid cave shaman is a way better model than a gitmob shaman unless you have a single unit of 60 gitmob with bows, even then as a general the fungoid is better since it allows you to run/retreat and charge with your dragons.

[Skabnoze]

Moonclan are slightly sturdier than standard grots with shields if you give them the bad moon icon in addition to a banner.  It gives them an extra +1 save from shooting.

You can also equip some models with nets and if you position them right they make the unit harder to hit in melee.

So for pure tarpit & objective-sitting they are better than standard Gitmob grots.  But, they also are more expensive. Depending on you list it might be better to use the cheaper grots for more bodies.  It will just depend on the rest of your list.

[Magma]

11 hours ago, Malakree said:

Honestly I have no idea, you're building a fluff list which makes it hard to give a definitive say on it's power level. I imagine the vast majority of the player base have never seen one magma dragon on a board let alone three

I know that the list is somewhat theme based and because of that might be harder to rate, but I just want to build something that is thematic and still somewhat competetive at the same time But thanks for your answer and input so far! Appreciate it 

 

10 hours ago, Skabnoze said:

Moonclan are slightly sturdier than standard grots with shields if you give them the bad moon icon in addition to a banner.  It gives them an extra +1 save from shooting

Thanks for clearing that up Also if I go for Moonclan grots, what do most people use as a weapon choice? Do they go for the stabbas or the spears?

 

I thought about switching the list up a little bit:

2x Magma Dragon (1080)
1x Troggoth Hag (380)
1x Fungoid Shaman (80)
3x20 Moonclan Grots (390)

1930/2000 points

I thought about including the Emerald Lifeswarm (60 points) as I would have the free space and some healing for my monsters might be nice

Any other ideas for the spare 70 points and/or general feedback? As I said this doesn't need to be Tier 1 competetive but I just want something that might be fun, thematic and still has got some chances of winning on some tables

 

Thanks a lot for all the replies and help so far!!

 

 

[Skabnoze]

I would arm any type of grots with spears if you expect them to get into a fight.  You are going to be wanting volume of attacks.  But you can try out either nd see which one you like.

[PlasticCraic]

On 7/15/2018 at 6:06 AM, Malakree said:

The original comments are made purely from the stance that a fungoid cave shaman is a way better model than a gitmob shaman unless you have a single unit of 60 gitmob with bows, even then as a general the fungoid is better since it allows you to run/retreat and charge with your dragons.

That's not quite true unfortunately, the Fungoid cannot make the Dragon run and charge.  It needs to have the Orruk or Grot keyword for that to be the case.

For that reason, I've been running an army with one Magma Dragon and one Maw Krusha.  The Maw Krusha has the Orruk keyword and can therefore benefit from the Fungoid, and as a Hero can take an artefact.  I like to give him something for durability and cannonball him into the fray, and send the Magma Dragon around cleaning up one objective at a time while they deal with that.

[Magma]

3 hours ago, PlasticCraic said:

That's not quite true unfortunately, the Fungoid cannot make the Dragon run and charge.  It needs to have the Orruk or Grot keyword for that to be the case.

For that reason, I've been running an army with one Magma Dragon and one Maw Krusha.  The Maw Krusha has the Orruk keyword and can therefore benefit from the Fungoid, and as a Hero can take an artefact.  I like to give him something for durability and cannonball him into the fray, and send the Magma Dragon around cleaning up one objective at a time while they deal with that.

Thanks for clearing that up :) could you be so nice and share that list with me?

What are your general experiences with the magma dragon? Do you think it might be useful or just overkill to run more of them?

What do you think about switching the maw krusha for gordrakk? His ability to give the magma dragon extra charge range and more attacks might be useful I think :)

What do you think of the Troggoth Hag as a strong support fighter and mage?

Thanks for the input so far!! :)

[PlasticCraic]

Hi @Magma I'm glad you're finding the discussion useful! 

I'm actually recording a YouTube show on this topic as a guest on Doom and Darkness tonight, so I'll post up the link when the show is uploaded.

[Magma]

@PlasticCraicWow awesome! Just post that link and I will watch the show and give you a sub on yt. Thanks, bud!

[PlasticCraic]

Hi @Magma, we didn't get as far as covering that list on the show (we ran out of time!) so I will post it here instead:

Kiss Kiss Bang Bang

Spoiler

Allegiance: Destruction

Leaders
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (80)
- General
- Trait: Ravager
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)
- Artefact: Hammerblade
Gitmob Grot Shaman (80)

Battleline
60 x Gitmob Grots (270)
- Bows & Slashas
10 x Orruks (80)
- Choppas & Shields
10 x Orruks (80)
- Choppas & Shields

Behemoths
Magma Dragon (540)

War Machines
Grot Spear Chukka (120)
Grot Spear Chukka (120)
Grot Spear Chukka (120)

Endless Spells
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (40)
Quicksilver Swords (20)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 143

Like I said in my earlier post, the general gameplan is to fling the Maw Krusha in there, and send the Magma Dragon around cleaning up objectives so he is still  fairly untouched by the time he hits their lines.  Even charging in the hero phase can be really powerful - do some mortal wounds, retreat, charge again!

You can tee up multiple charges on the Maw Krusha by softening enemies up with the Gitmob archers (buffed by their Shaman) and the Spear Chukkas.  Making him impossible to pin down (retreat and charge) is massive.

I'm open to suggestions on the artefact, I have Hammerblade there (great against things like Skeleton hordes) but at the weekend I used the once per game 4+ ignore artefact from Hyish and it was really valuable when you are just flinging him in there.

Also the final 70 points are up for grabs.  I quite like those two Endless Spells but I haven't locked them in.  Maybe put some healing in there?

[Magma]

@PlasticCraic Thanks for the input and the list. I will have a deeper look into it and your tactics

Could you post the video anyway? I want to watch it even if you didn't talk about that list and to give you a sub on yt

As for the 70 left points you could go for the Emerald Lifeswarm (60) to heal your dragon and/or maw-krusha?

 

Do you think it might be useful or just overkill to run more of the magma dragons?

What do you think about switching the maw krusha for gordrakk? Could his ability to give the magma dragon extra charge range and more attacks be useful?

What do you think of the Troggoth Hag as a strong support fighter and mage?

I have come up with two more list. Could you give a look at them and maybe give me some feedback on how viable they may be?

 

List 1
1x Magma Dragon (540)
1x Gordrakk (580)
1x Troggoth Hag (380)
1x Fungoid Shaman (80)
3x20 Moonclan Grots /w Spears & Shields (390)

1970/2000

 

List 2
2x Magma Dragon (1080)
1x Troggoth Hag (380)
1x Fungoid Shaman (80)
3x20 Moonclan Grots /w Spears & Shields (390)
Endless Spell: Emerald Lifeswarm (70)

2000/2000

 

Thanks again for your help!

 

[PlasticCraic]

Here you go mate, I posted the link in the Gutbusters forum because it is a Gutbusters themed show:

It's not my show (I was a guest), but it's a great channel so please do subscribe!

[Magma]

@PlasticCraic  Thanks for the link and the great show you guys put up. As a fact I'm already subscribed to mr doom and darkness

You got any quick feedback or small ideas on my lists?

You used 2x10 Orruks as Battleline. Do you find them somekind of useful or are they just in there for the Battleline requirement and cost the least amount of points? Because istead of running the Geminids you could go with 2x20 Grots instead with the same point values

[Skabnoze]

I think regular orcs are pretty decent.  They are not the sturdiest unit available, since they only have a single wound each.  But they all have rend -1, which is nothing to sneeze at.

[PlasticCraic]

@Magma thanks for that!  Yeah the Orcs are really there as cheap Battleline filler.  They do reroll saves, which can make them surprisingly durable in cover.  Depending on the opponent I will either keep them out of the way and run them onto objectives when everything is dead, or use them as a screen to make sure my big hitters can hit first.   And as @Skabnoze says, they all have rend.  Not bad at 80 points.

2x 20 Grots is also a good suggestion, and something I have considered, but I do like the Geminids.  Part of me wonders if the 18" deploy range is a typo that will get fixed up in the FAQ!  That would be a viable alternative though, for sure.

Your lists are very interesting, the Hag is good for the scenarios but you are giving up a lot by having 3 big beasts in there!  Why don't you play test them and let us know how you go?

[Magma]

@PlasticCraicI will post how they are playing after i got a few games in but I haven't ordered a second magma dragon yet to run the second list. Do you think running 2 magmas does make sense or is it just plain overkill from your experience by running one so far?

[Skabnoze]

I am considering making a Greenskin Orc swarm list.  I had a massive Common Orc army in 8th ed Fantasy and so I have close to 200 orcs.  They are dirt cheap, they all have rend -1, and all versions of the Orc warboss are quite good.  The Boarboyz are not amazing, but they are decent since they still pack rend -1 on their choppas. 

I have about 5-6 chariots as well, but I am very much on the fence about that unit.  They are durable, but they are not as fast as Wolf chariots so I am unsure about them.  I'll have to look at their cost again.

I'd probably play Greenskinz as generic mixed destruction since there is honestly zero benefit to using their allegiance if you plan to take regular orcs.  I think there might be a surprisingly good list for a ton of Orcs.

[Malakree]

@Skabnoze Something like this?

Spoiler

Allegiance: Destruction
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (80)
- General
- Trait: Ravager
- Artefact: Lens of Refraction 
Orruk Warboss On Wyvern (240)
Orruk Warboss (140)
- Great Waaagh Banner
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch 
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)

Battleline
40 x Orruks (280)
- Choppas & Shields
40 x Orruks (280)
- Choppas & Shields
40 x Orruks (280)
- Choppas & Shields

Units
2 x Savage Big Stabbas (100)
2 x Savage Big Stabbas (100)

Battalions
Teef Rukk (100)

Endless Spells
Balewind Vortex (40)
Emerald Lifeswarm (60)
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (40)
Quicksilver Swords (20)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 168

Got the fungoid as the general because the command traits for Destruction are pretty bad while the Destruction Allegiance move is fantastic with all these huge units of Orruks. The Teef Rukk is there as a cheap battalion that gives some anti-monster, +1cp and the extra artefact. Also as they have a 3" range they can fight from behind the units of Orruks which means your opponent will actually have to target them with ranged/spells to remove them.

A Balewind+Weirdnob just seemed like the most obvious choice given how easily you will get the +2 to cast and how much of a threat Foot of Gork can be. The second one was there when I decided to load up on some endless spells, it grants redundancy for the Balewind+Foot, gives you more good unbinding (seriously don't knock 30" unbinds with +2) and with 3 (to 5) spells in one turn suddenly the 3 endless spells are easily castable. 

Apart from the Teef Rukk I'd say the most tech part of the list is actually the emerald lifeswarm, Honestly it's fantastic for this list. Because of just how huge your army is you can lock it into the middle and stop your opponent from flying it out (just because of how much space you can cover). More importantly you will never waste any of the heals either on the heroes for keeping them topped off or, more importantly, on the Orruk units where it just reads "revive d3 Orruks" It might not seem like a lot but here is a disgusting thought for you.

Start of the battleround, Lifeswarm moves and revives your unit. Your turn, you use one of your casts from the weirdnob to dispell it (!) then instantly recast it triggering it again. That means you could potentially be getting 2d3 orruks back each turn, combine with their already reasonable saves and the ability to ignore battleshock ( ?the new IP) it's going to make you a nightmare to remove from the field.

I have no idea how it would work in practice but in theory it has a lot going for it just because it puts 168 wounds on the table!! Plus it will be a laugh to watch your opponent work out how he's going to deal with that many Orruks. Hell if you want, strip out the Teef Rukk (that artefact loss hurts tho) and put in another unit of 40.

[PlasticCraic]

@Malakree I quite like your list. One other option might be to take a Boat Chariot as your 3rd Battleline, and use the extra 200 points to beef up both Big Stabbas units?

They aren't bad for 80 points, with the chance of a few cheeky Mortal Wounds. 

[Malakree]

8 hours ago, PlasticCraic said:

@Malakree I quite like your list. One other option might be to take a Boat Chariot as your 3rd Battleline, and use the extra 200 points to beef up both Big Stabbas units?

They aren't bad for 80 points, with the chance of a few cheeky Mortal Wounds. 

It's a generic destruction not a Greenskinz list and the idea was to fit as many Orruks as possible!
The two weirdnobs and teef rukk is 4 allies with only 10 units.

[PlasticCraic]

Yeah good point on the Allies! 

I do think a Chariot can be a viable 3rd Greenskinz Battleline if you decide you are good for bodies with two big blocks, but it would be a totally different list really.  In daydreaming mode, with our much-wished-for Legions of Nagash style Battletome I'd love to see a Greenskinz Batallion called Da Green Tide, which is 3-5 units of Orruks, and they all get a free Hero Phase move.

I'd been thinking about Teef Rukk as a very modular Batallion that you can slot into Allies / Mixed lists for the second artefact and Batallion.  I just feel like you really need larger blocks than minimum, and they get expensive really quickly.  Maybe I need to try them on the table in a few different shapes and sizes.  Like you said though, in this list you could always throw in some extra Boyz if that's the theme of the army that @Skabnoze is going for.

I do like the list - you have said it before in a previous post, but in many ways the Weirdnob Shaman is really a Greenskinz wizard in all but name.

[PlasticCraic]

@Magma bit of a necro here but one thing to point out is that in the list I mentioned above, I usually give the hero phase move to the Gitmob Archers if my opponent makes me go first.  The Maw Krusha and Magma Dragon will probably get where they need to be anyway, and the Archers only have 16" range so they need a helping hand to reach their targets.

A move I like to make is charging with the Archers and tagging the edge of an enemy unit - positioning not to maximise the damage you do to them, but to minimise the damage that comes back.  This is aimed at protecting your key damage pieces - basically the Maw Krusha and Magma Dragon should devastate whatever they hit, and by tagging a key unit, you are minimising their opportunity to hit back with what is left of their army.  They have to decide between retreating and praying for the double turn (which you have effectively turned into a single turn for that unit), or chipping away at some disposable Grots.

Because the Spear Chukkas are +1 to hit and reroll hits against Heroes, this nicely offsets Lookout Sir.  Also the Magma Dragon bypasses it completely (no To Hit roll) so you have a decent amount of Hero sniping potential - plus the volume of shots from the Archers to whittle down scoring units.

Let me know if you try any variations on these lists we have been discussing, and how it goes for you!

[Tom Loyn]

Hi guys, I ran a magma dragon list last weekend and actually won an event with it! They're definitely competitive (read - horribly destructive)

 

The list I ran was:

 

Frostlord on Thundertusk - might is right, ethereal amulet (general)

2x Fungoid Cave Shamans

3x10 Orruks

2 Magma Dragons

Chronomatic Cogs & Burning Head 

 

I've found that for competitive builds that actually want to compete in scenarios (and not just kill stuff!) you need strong characters to compete in Arcane Power and Relocation Orb - if we're looking at the new GHB2018 scenarios.

For your list a Hag is definitely a good shout. I'd suggest at least one monster character like her or a spider, probably with the ethereal amulet for survivability.  Plus a couple of shamans of some description to cast mystic shield and grab objs. 

I've also found cogs is fantastic with them. Move 16 + 2 to run and charge gets them right in your opponents face turn 1. The premise is then your opponent can't focus on anything but trying to kill those massive 20 wound wrecking balls which are deleting their army, so your characters and battleline go around quietly scoring objs.

The above list is now 10 wins out of 10 at competitive play, 6 nations team event and Pompey Pillage in the UK. It's won in every one of the new scenarios and beaten:

 

Bonesplittaz

Moonclan

Khorne (twice)

Death (Arkhan, vordrai + nighthaunt)

 Nighthaunt 

Stormcast (Magmas eat Stardrakes!)

Order Draconis 

Daughters of Khaine

Clan Skryre

 

So I can categorically say Magma Dragons definitely work competitively!