6 Nations lists discussion

[The Cyclop Owl]

Considering the 6 Nations thread that was open yesterday descended into a messy argument about the balance of AoS 2, I’m opening this one to discuss the lists themselves - they can all be found here. The homepage of the event can be found here.

 

My first question is, how did Oskar Carlefred’s list perform in the middle of all this alleged imbalance? I’m super curious about the Tzaangor Coven, primarily because I love the idea of a 30 Tzaangor blob murdering their way through the field while the rest of the army deals MWs left and right.

 

@Solaris, can you give us a little detail, ask Oskar to drop in or direct us towards batreps? For more specific questions:

- Were there any strange moves involved, or does it play as it reads ? (Tzaangor occupying the center with Enlightened and Shaman, LoC on the second line casting MWs away and Acolytes grabbing objectives while Curseling dispells and Skyfires attempt to snipe)

- How did the LoC perform, considering how pricy it has become? Was there any conversation about dropping it and using the points for a Gaunt Summoner, a Herald and an other unit of Acolytes?

- What were his go-to summons?

- I’m assuming the plan is Vortex for the Curseling and Spellportal for the LoC?

 

 

 

PS: @AaronWIlson, you seem to have followed the entire thing live. Maybe you know where I can find answers to some of these questions?

[AaronWilson]

1 hour ago, The Cyclop Owl said:

Considering the 6 Nations thread that was open yesterday descended into a messy argument about the balance of AoS 2, I’m opening this one to discuss the lists themselves - they can all be found here. The homepage of the event can be found here.

 

My first question is, how did Oskar Carlefred’s list perform in the middle of all this alleged imbalance? I’m super curious about the Tzaangor Coven, primarily because I love the idea of a 30 Tzaangor blob murdering their way through the field while the rest of the army deals MWs left and right.

 

@Solaris, can you give us a little detail, ask Oskar to drop in or direct us towards batreps? For more specific questions:

- Were there any strange moves involved, or does it play as it reads ? (Tzaangor occupying the center with Enlightened and Shaman, LoC on the second line casting MWs away and Acolytes grabbing objectives while Curseling dispells and Skyfires attempt to snipe)

- How did the LoC perform, considering how pricy it has become? Was there any conversation about dropping it and using the points for a Gaunt Summoner, a Herald and an other unit of Acolytes?

- What were his go-to summons?

- I’m assuming the plan is Vortex for the Curseling and Spellportal for the LoC?

 

 

 

PS: @AaronWIlson, you seem to have followed the entire thing live. Maybe you know where I can find answers to some of these questions?

I just followed people's twitter accounts sadly, nothing visual.

[The Cyclop Owl]

9 minutes ago, AaronWIlson said:

I just followed people's twitter accounts sadly, nothing visual.

No problem, I'm just looking for info on how this list performed. Do you remember who competed against Oskar? I've been check the tournament's account as well as the Swedish account, but it's mostly general information about the rounds and jokes flying around.

[Solaris]

Hi! Oskar played against NI's Sylvaneth (20-0), Wales' Seraphon (0-20), England's mixed order (0-20), Scotland's Seraphon (20-0) and Ireland's Gutbusters (20-0). Overall his list felt like one of the weaker in out lineup, and was more sensitive to bad matchups than others.

When facing Scotland's Seraphon list, he actually took a dive for the team to remove a list that noone else wanted to play against from the draft. Being a great player, he somehow managed to pull off the win anyway, despite the matchup being very skewed in Seraphon's favor.

He's been told of this thread, so perhaps he'll pop in and give his thoughts

[Bubba_da_phat]

It plays pretty much as it reads.  Acolytes were also used as bubblewrap or screen depending on scenario and opponent. 

I did alright.

Game 1. A lovely north Irish gentleman who’s name escapes me.  played  a 9 scythehunter, allarielle dreadwood.  he charged in the hunters in my tzaangors, killed about 10 I think. My round they struck in the hero phase and I mortal wound spelled allarie of the table and then poured everything else into the hunters. Won the priority roll after and we pretty much called it at that point.

game 2. Daren Watson’s 4 engine slann list. He summoned like 9 rippers and charged tzaangors. I knew it was hopeless but nevertheless top guy and still great game  

game 3 . Byrons Mixed order with 2 birds and allarielle. Made a big big mistake with my tzaangors. Had a whole in his skink screen and could’ve charged his unbuffed birds an allarielle. Realized my mistake when I was piling in. It cost me the game.

game 4. Paul Whitehead’s seraphon. Kroak, 2 engines and a 12 ripper drop bomb. He took first turn and dropped on my tzaangors and slaughtered them all. Curseling effectively shut down kroak. My turn I killed the rippers and most of his skinks. Got the double and could hunt down the rest of his army. Got to say that although all my games wore good this was the tightest and the one I enjoyed the most .

game 5. Gutbuster Irishman. This was probably the most mismatched game. We both knew he got thrown under the bus and  took one for the team as there was no reasonable chance of his army beating mine. We made the most of it and had a laugh. 

 

My takeaways  

- the balewind was underused. I think I used it only once. I kept the cursling and the LoC together at the spellportal instead. 

-Pre-tournament we had no thoughts on dropping The LoC. With the portal he is very, very destructive still, without a spellportal maybe not auto-include but he won me two of the games almost singlehandedly. 

-I see summoning more as a bonus rather than something I count on happening. Over the course of five games I summoned a total of 20 blue horrors and a herald. 

-skyfires are not that good. 3 could possibly be used to snipe or at least threat characters but they need the shaman close by and that adds up to 400 points. Not worth it. If the mortal wound would trigger on a unmodified 6 I’d consider them again. 

- enlightened on the other hand feels amazing. Could see myself run a unit of 9 in tandem with 30 tzaangors.. on the other hand 9 enlightened  is the same price as 30 tzaangors..

- coven was great. I mostly took it for the extra artifact, command point and to reduce my drops. The pile in and attack rarely got used as they’re so good that they almost wipe out everything before it comes into play. 

 

[SuperHappyTime]

1 hour ago, Solaris said:

Hi! Oskar played against NI's Sylvaneth (20-0), Wales' Seraphon (0-20), England's mixed order (0-20), Scotland's Seraphon (20-0) and Ireland's Gutbusters (20-0). Overall his list felt like one of the weaker in out lineup, and was more sensitive to bad matchups than others.

When facing Scotland's Seraphon list, he actually took a dive for the team to remove a list that noone else wanted to play against from the draft. Being a great player, he somehow managed to pull off the win anyway, despite the matchup being very skewed in Seraphon's favor.

He's been told of this thread, so perhaps he'll pop in and give his thoughts

Wait, all of the games were 20-0 or 0-20?

[Bubba_da_phat]

All mine were. 

[Solaris]

Just now, SuperHappyTime said:

Wait, all of the games were 20-0 or 0-20?

Yes, draws and minor victories are as rare in AoS 2 as they were in AoS 1. The tournament was played by the book this time, due to the new edition being released just one week before, but a more granular scoring system has been requested by many for next years tournament.

[SuperHappyTime]

11 minutes ago, Solaris said:

Yes, draws and minor victories are as rare in AoS 2 as they were in AoS 1. The tournament was played by the book this time, due to the new edition being released just one week before, but a more granular scoring system has been requested by many for next years tournament.

That was kind of what I was afraid of when I asked. Hopefully it was more of the tournament setup than the actual system

[Bubba_da_phat]

12 minutes ago, SuperHappyTime said:

That was kind of what I was afraid of when I asked. Hopefully it was more of the tournament setup than the actual system

Unless TO`s inkluderad sidemissons or something that is the system. 

[Andreas]

39 minutes ago, SuperHappyTime said:

That was kind of what I was afraid of when I asked. Hopefully it was more of the tournament setup than the actual system

Deleted, already answered by others. 

[Solaris]

20 minutes ago, SuperHappyTime said:

That was kind of what I was afraid of when I asked. Hopefully it was more of the tournament setup than the actual system

No, it's in the win conditions of the scenarios. If you win the scenario by 1 victory point, that's a major victory according to scenario rules. If you end up with exactly the same amount of victory points but kill more you get a minor victory, and if you end up with exactly the same amount of victory points and kill points you get a draw. The latter very rarely happens. Therefore, most games end up 20-0 in either direction. To get a more granular system, tournaments need to add their own secondary scoring systems.

[The Cyclop Owl]

9 hours ago, Bubba_da_phat said:

-skyfires are not that good. 3 could possibly be used to snipe or at least threat characters but they need the shaman close by and that adds up to 400 points. Not worth it. If the mortal wound would trigger on a unmodified 6 I’d consider them again. 

- enlightened on the other hand feels amazing. Could see myself run a unit of 9 in tandem with 30 tzaangors.. on the other hand 9 enlightened  is the same price as 30 tzaangors..

- coven was great. I mostly took it for the extra artifact, command point and to reduce my drops. The pile in and attack rarely got used as they’re so good that they almost wipe out everything before it comes into play. 

I'm trying to figure out what you might go for next time then. Are you saying you'd be willing to drop the Skyfires, drop the Balewind Vortex, add more Enlightened and/or Acolytes and use a Witchfyre Coven instead? Or you'll stick to the Tzaangor Coven and use your 3 Skyfires differently?
I have to admit, 3 sets of attacks from 30 Tzaangors per round sounds incredibly appealing...

[PlasticCraic]

I've heard a lot of talk about how well the Dreadwood lists were doing, could anyone explain how the list works and what makes it so strong please?

[Bubba_da_phat]

I Have a build in my head.

lord of Change

gaunt summoner

curseling

30 tzaangors

10 pink horrors

spell portal  

then either another 30 tzangors, 30 warriors or 9 enlightend  

 

[The Cyclop Owl]

23 minutes ago, Bubba_da_phat said:

I Have a build in my head.

lord of Change

gaunt summoner

curseling

30 tzaangors

10 pink horrors

spell portal  

then either another 30 tzangors, 30 warriors or 9 enlightend  

 

Well the enlightened wouldn’t be battlelines, and if my calculation’s right you’d be 20 points short for a unit of Acolytes. 

Though again, 30 more Tzaangors sound really appealing

[The Cyclop Owl]

BTW does anybody know how Chris Caves Jnr’s list perform? Talking about being radical with the Enlightened...

[broche]

Anyone know how was ruled Umbral spell portal with predatory endless spell during the tournament?

[Richelieu]

47 minutes ago, broche said:

Anyone know how was ruled Umbral spell portal with predatory endless spell during the tournament?

This is a good question since RAW it can trigger an infinite loop of moves that end, trigger damage and a setup on the other side, which triggers a move, which triggers damage and a setup on the other side, etc., Etc.

I would like to see the initial move wording changed such that it moves immediately upon being cast, not upon being set up.

Even so it's unclear when the spells effects will trigger.  In order for it to enter the portal it must end its move near one.  Therefore, logically all its end movement abilities would trigger before moving through the portal and not once set up on the other side.  

[broche]

Exactly, so RAW is infinite loop so it's gonna be FAQ for sure. the way i see there's three options:

1. Set up - Teleport - Move -END

2. Set up - Move - Teleport - Move - END

3. Set up - Move - Teleport - END

option 1 is decent, option 2 is still really good, option 3 is not really usefull.

I saw a list with Nagash, portal and purple sun, was curious how it was ruled.

[Richelieu]

2 hours ago, PlasticCraic said:

I've heard a lot of talk about how well the Dreadwood lists were doing, could anyone explain how the list works and what makes it so strong please?

You get d3 stratagems at the beginning of the battle.  Each stratagem can be used to 

* Set up a unit within 6" of an enemy (yes you read that right)

* Move 3 units 

* Limit enemy range to 12" for the round

It's effectiveness has only changed insofar as it got considerably cheaper, so you no longer just make an alpha strike and then die, or move into key strategic positions and then die, or hinder your opponent for a turn and then die.  

[PUFNSTUF]

Can anyone comments of how the thrice fold befoulment list did or the legions of nagash nighthaunt list?

[Guest]

9 hours ago, PUFNSTUF said:

Can anyone comments of how the thrice fold befoulment list did or the legions of nagash nighthaunt list?

You'll need to ask @meermouse about that Nurgle list...

[Solaris]

10 hours ago, PUFNSTUF said:

Can anyone comments of how the thrice fold befoulment list did or the legions of nagash nighthaunt list?

All I know is that the table looked absolutely crazy when he faced off against Peter Pratt's Nurgle in the last round ?

[meermouse]

On 7/11/2018 at 3:35 AM, PUFNSTUF said:

Can anyone comments of how the thrice fold befoulment list did or the legions of nagash nighthaunt list?

I was the one that took thricefold befoulment

I won 2/5

Funnily enough on the new "3 places of power" type scenario (the name escapes me), I was very strong, unfortunately I only got matched up into it once. My other victory was in the nurgle mirror match against 60 plaguebearers and its a victory im very proud of, as on paper I should have lost big time, which makes me think with more practice this list might be capable of something. 

I did however struggle big time against hordes. Against fyreslayers and death, I just cant kick out enough to stop them scoring, but with practice, who knows. Im going to take it to at least one more tournament with some small tweaks to make the sword/flail GUO deal more damage, as his performance seemed to be the difference if at least 2 of the games.