Willow Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Hello all, I am getting back into the hobby after a four year break and am looking at starting a 1000 point Tzeench aligned force as I love both the Thaumaturge and pink horror models. Just wondering if I could get some feedback on how competitive this force would be and if you have any recommendations for improvements I may be able to make. Ogroid Thaumaturge Magister Changeling Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch x10 Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch x10 Wondering whether a unit of ten Tzaangors would be better than the second unit of horrors versatility wise. This would come out to 920 with two units of horrors or 900 if I switch out a unit of horrors for Tzaangors. Possible endless spells: - Umbral spellportal - Chronomantic cogs - Soulsnare shackles Thanks in advance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themortalgod Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Curseling is now amazing. For 160pts i feel he is almost a must take. Cheapest Tz option for a spellcaster that can cast two spells. Then he can also cast spells he unbinds for additional fate points. Imo drop the Changeling for him. The Changeling is 20% of your army's pts and is likely to die very quickly if you deploy him behind enemy lines as he is meant to be. My new favourite combo is to make curseling the general, give him the command trait so he can sacrifice wounds to nearby allies to gain +9" range and re-roll casting attemps which you use to kill D3 horrors, which turns into D3x2 blue horror pts then just toss a destiny dice of 1 at the horrors in the battleshock phase to add D6 to the unit. Net result is some free blue horror points, longer range, more reliable casting, and often a bigger unit of pinks than you started with. I'd also consider dropping the magister for a gaunt summoner to counter those pesky horde armies and give you another cast. Especially if you dont own a few spawn models to bring to each game. The magister is really only a spawn maker now. Imo shackles are useless w/o spellportal, but can be devastating with it. So keep that in mind when deciding which spells to get Consider balewind if you want the cogs just for the extra cast. Balewind gives virtually the same but for 20pts less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willow Posted July 10, 2018 Author Share Posted July 10, 2018 @themortalgod Cheers for the feedback I’ll definitely consider the curseling however my idea for the changeling was that as it is only revealed by enemy heroes that are within 3 it will divert a significant amount of attention from the main body of my force. Especially if the opponent has any powerful spells eg foot of gork which I could use. Also I’m not sure how I would fit the curseling into the paint scheme I have in mind due to all of the armor. The gaunt summoner definitely looks like a good option against hordes though. What do you think about replacing the changeling with the gaunt summoner? Whats your opinion on replacing one unit of horrors with Tzaangors. I was thinking of using the shackles in conjunction with the spell portal to give myself an extra turn (or 2) before any units reach my lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myzyrael Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 The gaunt summoner is still good even for 180 and without the +1. You can also make him the general with the sacrifice, the Curseling however has a really good save for a wizard and his ability can even steal enemy endless spells. The shackles might or might not work due to the 5+ roll (only one roll no matter how many shackles are near to one unit). The ogroid is a nice combination of a fighter and wizard but feel he likes to go with Tzaangors more than anything else. I also love the Geminids, for 40 points you can do a nice damage to hidden heroes and/or reduce the damage taken from nasty units. With the arcane sacrifice you can deploy them at 27” and move 8 to hit several heroes that camp next to each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh1989 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 This is the best i have come up with for Tzeentch Summoning. I was thinking magister but with 1 spell going off on a 7 and he wont get buffs from LoC the Blue scribes is a better choice in his slot. With this your casting 13 spells a turn as long as you get off your cogs and vortex (fate dice can help). With LoC +1 to casting for daemons and scribes rerolls you can get off most of your spells and do about 30ish mortal wounds a turn at 36" with portal that you use fate dice 6s to guarantee casting. And you have 3 unbinds at 43" which you can cast back unbindable. Also with the realm spells/bolt you can supplement your weaker/extra spells. Summoning first get down a herald on disk then use him to spawn more horrors on points around the board and another unit of pinks when you can. Played this against seraphon and it did well, was game at T3. This is complete alpha strike list set up far away and try blow away as much as you can while your acolytes are bodies on objectives . Allegiance: Tzeentch - Mortal Realm: Chamon LEADERS Lord Of Change (380) - Lore of Change : Tzeentch's Firestorm The Blue Scribes (140) - Lore of Change : Fold Reality Gaunt Summoner and Chaos Familiars (180) - Lore of Change : Bolt of Tzeentch Curseling, Eye of Tzeentch (160) - General - Command Trait : Magical Supremacy - Artefact : Alchemical Chain - Lore of Fate : Arcane Suggestion Ogroid Thaumaturge (180) - Lore of Fate : Glimpse the Future UNITS 10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (200) - Lore of Change : Treason of Tzeentch 10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (200) - Lore of Change : Unchecked Mutation 10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (200) - Lore of Change : Fold Reality 10 x Kairic Acolytes (80) - 6 x Cursed Blade & Arcanite Shield - 1 x Single Cursed Blade - 3 x Cursed Glaives 10 x Kairic Acolytes (80) - 6 x Cursed Blade & Arcanite Shield - 1 x Single Cursed Blade - 3 x Cursed Glaives ENDLESS SPELLS Umbral Spellportal (60) Chronomantic Cogs (60) Balewind Vortex (40) Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (40) TOTAL: 2000/2000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willow Posted July 11, 2018 Author Share Posted July 11, 2018 8 hours ago, Myzyrael said: The gaunt summoner is still good even for 180 and without the +1. You can also make him the general with the sacrifice, the Curseling however has a really good save for a wizard and his ability can even steal enemy endless spells. The shackles might or might not work due to the 5+ roll (only one roll no matter how many shackles are near to one unit). The ogroid is a nice combination of a fighter and wizard but feel he likes to go with Tzaangors more than anything else. I also love the Geminids, for 40 points you can do a nice damage to hidden heroes and/or reduce the damage taken from nasty units. With the arcane sacrifice you can deploy them at 27” and move 8 to hit several heroes that camp next to each other. @Myzyrael The summoner is definitely something i'm going to consider now as the damage against hordes is amazing and everyone i play will have at least one blob of 20+ models. Shackles is more of a points filler to get me up to 1000 points as whilst also being useful at slowing down opponents melee units as they slow on a 3+ and the 6inch range means that they will be in rage to attempt that for at least two turns if not three. You think that taking a unit of Tzaangors would be worth it at 1000 points or would the second unit of horrors be better regardless as the shackles should slow the opponent down enough to take out the stronger of my opponents melee units. ill definitely consider the Geminids if i have points left after the spell portal. the only issue with using them is that they can come back though the portal after me which would do considerable damage to my own group of heroes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willow Posted July 11, 2018 Author Share Posted July 11, 2018 3 hours ago, josh1989 said: This is the best i have come up with for Tzeentch Summoning. I was thinking magister but with 1 spell going off on a 7 and he wont get buffs from LoC the Blue scribes is a better choice in his slot. With this your casting 13 spells a turn as long as you get off your cogs and vortex (fate dice can help). With LoC +1 to casting for daemons and scribes rerolls you can get off most of your spells and do about 30ish mortal wounds a turn at 36" with portal that you use fate dice 6s to guarantee casting. And you have 3 unbinds at 43" which you can cast back unbindable. Also with the realm spells/bolt you can supplement your weaker/extra spells. Summoning first get down a herald on disk then use him to spawn more horrors on points around the board and another unit of pinks when you can. Played this against seraphon and it did well, was game at T3. This is complete alpha strike list set up far away and try blow away as much as you can while your acolytes are bodies on objectives . Allegiance: Tzeentch - Mortal Realm: Chamon LEADERS Lord Of Change (380) - Lore of Change : Tzeentch's Firestorm The Blue Scribes (140) - Lore of Change : Fold Reality Gaunt Summoner and Chaos Familiars (180) - Lore of Change : Bolt of Tzeentch Curseling, Eye of Tzeentch (160) - General - Command Trait : Magical Supremacy - Artefact : Alchemical Chain - Lore of Fate : Arcane Suggestion Ogroid Thaumaturge (180) - Lore of Fate : Glimpse the Future UNITS 10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (200) - Lore of Change : Treason of Tzeentch 10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (200) - Lore of Change : Unchecked Mutation 10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (200) - Lore of Change : Fold Reality 10 x Kairic Acolytes (80) - 6 x Cursed Blade & Arcanite Shield - 1 x Single Cursed Blade - 3 x Cursed Glaives 10 x Kairic Acolytes (80) - 6 x Cursed Blade & Arcanite Shield - 1 x Single Cursed Blade - 3 x Cursed Glaives ENDLESS SPELLS Umbral Spellportal (60) Chronomantic Cogs (60) Balewind Vortex (40) Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (40) TOTAL: 2000/2000 @josh1989 Hey josh the list looks very similar to what i would run at 2000 points however i'm looking at building a 1000 point list first as most of the tournaments for the remainder of the year are 1000 points and i'm not going to be able to get the money together to afford a full 2000 point list by the end of the year especially when you consider all the blues and brimstones ill need to buy. Any thoughts on Acolytes vs Tzaangors at this points level or if it would be better to stick to my pinks as they will split producing more wounds for my opponent to have to fight though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willow Posted July 11, 2018 Author Share Posted July 11, 2018 So this is what I’ve got now. Gaunt summoner is now an auto include when I realized there is someone evil enough to bring an infantry based nurgle list and another who runs a skaven infantry list. The idea is to use spell portal to be able to cast shackles turn one giving me at least one or two extra turns of shooting/casting before their units get into charge range. With all of the casting/dispelling i should be able to build up a reasonable amount of fate points to summon whilst dishing out a boat load of mortal wounds. And the pinks should be able to provide a decent bubble once the opponent eventually reaches my lines. Allegiance: Tzeentch LEADERS Gaunt summoner (180) Curseling (160) Ogroid Thaumaturge (180) BATTLELINE Pink Horrors (200) Pink Horrors (200) ENDLESS SPELLS Umbral Spellportal (60) Soulsnare Shackles (20) TOTAL 1000/1000 Any advice on command traits and who I should make the general? Nexus of fate and arch sorcerer look ok but I don’t know how much I really need extra spells or different destiny dice. Any recommendations for which spells I should take? I’ve been looking at treacherous bond, Tzeentch’s inferno and unchecked mutation. However I’m not sure if there are any that are must takes with this kind of list. Thanks for all the assistance so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh1989 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 First of all drop shackles they are not great easy to dispell and will be dispelled straight away i would run the blades for the 20 instead. Second if your running curseling make him general and give him magical supremacy and say your army is from chamon (metal) so you can take alchemical chain that gives you 3 x 43" unbinds what you can cast back unbindable. Very strong. Tzaangor are only really good in 20s and 30s so dont bother with 10s i would say acolytes can hold objectives fine as chaff units and are cheaper doing it. Your list looks good. If you want tzaangor drop the 2 units of pinks and go 20 tzaangor and 10 acolytes. if you go with tzaangor cogs would be a better choice to get the +2 to run and charge too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willow Posted July 11, 2018 Author Share Posted July 11, 2018 @josh1989 @themortalgod @Myzyrael So far I think is the list I will be going with, thanks for all of your help it has been invaluable. Allegiance: Tzeentch Mortal realm: Chamon LEADERS Curseling (160) - General - Command Trait: Magical Supremacy - Artefact Of Power: Alchemical Chain - Lore of Fate: Glimpse The Future Gaunt summoner (180) - Lore of Fate: Shield Of Fate Ogroid Thaumaturge (180) - Lore of Fate: Infusion Arcanum BATTLELINE Pink Horrors (200) - Lore of Change: Bolt Of Tzeentch Pink Horrors (200) - Lore of Change: Unchecked Mutation ENDLESS SPELLS Umbral Spellportal (60) Quicksilver Swords (20) TOTAL 1000/1000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themortalgod Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 lose shield of fate, you dont have many decent saves anyway and you should be spending destiny dice which means it wont be very good. Go with bolt of change instead. Take fold reality on the horror unit instead of bolt. Also personally, just my 2¢: Arcane Sacrifice and Gryph Feather Charm beats Magical Supremacy and Alchemical Chain as it is more versatile against all opponents where as the latter won't be useful in many situations. Finally, I still think Shackles are a better option since they are a must dispel. Even if they never do anything, your opponent is giving up casting to get rid of them. But then again, I'm biased as I feel any spells that do X on 6s are garbage because they usually fail to do what you want. (for this reason, I also feel that purple sun is the biggest disappointment in the set) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willow Posted July 11, 2018 Author Share Posted July 11, 2018 2 hours ago, themortalgod said: lose shield of fate, you dont have many decent saves anyway and you should be spending destiny dice which means it wont be very good. Go with bolt of change instead. Take fold reality on the horror unit instead of bolt. Also personally, just my 2¢: Arcane Sacrifice and Gryph Feather Charm beats Magical Supremacy and Alchemical Chain as it is more versatile against all opponents where as the latter won't be useful in many situations. Finally, I still think Shackles are a better option since they are a must dispel. Even if they never do anything, your opponent is giving up casting to get rid of them. But then again, I'm biased as I feel any spells that do X on 6s are garbage because they usually fail to do what you want. (for this reason, I also feel that purple sun is the biggest disappointment in the set) @themortalgod I’ll definitely look into those spells because you raise a good point in regards to the destiny dice. As of the moment I only have the battletome so I haven’t been able to properly look into the different realms and their corresponding artifacts. So once I get the other books I’ll have a better idea on what I should be doing in regards to that. I can interchange them depending on what games I’m going to be playing and see what ones work best for my local area. Same with the last point I like shackles and they will definitely be great against a beast men player at the store however there are some more artillery/shooting based armies and they won’t really be moving so something that can deal mortal wounds can’t hurt and malevolent maelstrom would only really be any good against caster based armies of which there are only a couple. Things like the spells and articlfacts I will be changing once I start actually playing so I’ll definitely keep the ideas in mind. Cheers for the help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themortalgod Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 All armies have to move, even a gun line, if they dont, they lose the objective game. Also, i think you will find that in many situations, statistically, shackles will do more damage than swords since it has such a big footprint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willow Posted July 13, 2018 Author Share Posted July 13, 2018 11 hours ago, themortalgod said: All armies have to move, even a gun line, if they dont, they lose the objective game. Also, i think you will find that in many situations, statistically, shackles will do more damage than swords since it has such a big footprint @themortalgod Yeah the shackles will definitely be doing more damage than swords now that I look at it. Adding that in now. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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