Help with Ironjawz Lists / Allies

[MeSmashDaNoobs]

This is 2 lists i've made and i was hoping to get some good advice or comments on what to to further evolve this into a more competetive one or just to hear your thoughts on

what you like and don't.

so too explain the thought process behind this in a very short review:

80 point wizard with Chronomantic Cogs to further help my dudes fly up the board + some MW spells to help around.

Warboss + Megaboss to combine the command abilities to get 2 extra attacks.

Guzzler because with MS i think it has got a place in this list (maw krusha to expensive) and i wanted some big support.

Ironfist for the movement and som extra wounds.

Gruntas and/or Ard boyz depending on you comments and critical views of one of the lists or both.

Brutes because Brutes Da Best!

warchanters are always good?

 

2 CP to start with and a variety of models to both have fun and smack som heads in.

anything i've missed or something you've discovered in the new edition that could be good to know?

[Izikail]

Im new. But from what im hearing, swap the warbosses axe and chopper for a banner

More and smaller bruit squads to benifit from the attack increas

Not 30 ard boys. 3 units of ten will be better but that may still be to many in the armie without a perticular goal for them.

Your list builder is out of date as some points changed (giant 160, think bettalion is 200)

Cearful stacking endless spells without a goal. If your shamy is far away they wont see much play. If hes close he dies. Only use endless spells for a given perpous eg your cogs idea. People are likeing the skull spell. My concern is if its close enough for you to get the bouse and not them then they can run it through you. If its giving it to both then its meh and if its only boosting them so they cant turn it on you. Then its not realy paying to use it.

Hope that didnt come of as harsh. I know very little and im just trying to help

[Izikail]

Oh ardboys are now 160 each not 180

[Malakree]

So a few comments/thoughts. Do NOT take them as gospel, so much is up in the air at the moment we are really still exploring.

Firstly is that if you can get them the Mega-battalions are fantastic now. In both lists you already have all the units required to max an Ironfist it's really just getting up to a cabbage and having the 120 for the extra battalion.

The Warboss should have a great Waaagh! banner, this IS gospel. Without it he is not worth his 140 points, just take a second Megaboss instead. If you desperately want to have him as a combat piece then you want to spend the 100 points on a Wyvern Warboss rather than an Aleguzzler, not only is it far better but it gives you 60 points more float. 

If you are building around stacking Waaagh! you want to have MSU of Brutes instead of a large unit in order to exploit the Brute Bosses Klaw+Smasha. It's not only the best weapon available to a Brute Squad but also gets an extra attack on BOTH weapons instead of just one.

Fungoid is really nice, if you take him he should be your general so you can try and exploit his CA. You lose a command trait for it but without a cabbage the trait is far less important anyway. It hasn't be answered yet but if we can take realm artefacts on allies then he should have the Gryph-Feather Charm because not only is the extra move is nice for positioning his CA and -3 to hit vs ranged attacks makes him basically immune.

You potentially have to many endless spells, for the amount of casts you get a turn. That said his basic spell is garbage so 6 of 1. On that note look at swapping out the Quicksilver swords for a Prismatic Palisade. Being able to protect yourself from ranged attacks is going to be a huge boon and with good placement you are even threatening to -1 to hit your opponents units on their turn.

It's worth noting that the Warscroll Builder is wrong and the Aleguzzler Gargant is now 160 not 170. This gives you more wiggle room with regards to your endless spells. You could keep the Quick Silver Swords and add in a Maelstrom in case you face a wizard heavy opponent, or go full aggression and swap the Swords for an Aethervoid Pendulum or Ravenak's Jaws instead. 

Honestly I personally prefer the second list to the first, you aren't really doing anything which would exploit such a massive Ardboy unit. 

 

Personal Opinion

If it was me I would lean more towards this list

Spoiler

Allegiance: Ironjawz
Mortal Realm: Ghur

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)
- General
- Trait: Ironclad 
- Artefact: Gryph-feather Charm 
Orruk Megaboss (140)
- Artefact: Metalrippa's Klaw 
Orruk Warchanter (80)
- Artefact: The Boss Skewer 
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (80)
- Allies

Battleline
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)

Battalions
Ironfist (180)
Bloodtoofs (120)

Endless Spells
Chronomantic Cogs (60)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 80 / 400
Wounds: 112

Added in the Cabbage/Battalion and split down the Brutes into 5x5x5, removed the Gargant and Warboss and the two extra endless spells.

Obviously this is quite a different list to what you are looking at running though so as I said at the start, personal opinion.

 

EDIT: Side note, the 1 in 4 rule for allies from the Core Rules (page 242) still applies. That means neither of your lists are actually legal because you have 3 allies units so would need at least 12 units total (or 9 IJ units, 3 for every 1 allied unit)

[wast8]

which is better? Orruk Warboss with banner or Orruk Megaboss? assuming list already have a cabbage.

[Malakree]

5 hours ago, wast8 said:

which is better? Orruk Warboss with banner or Orruk Megaboss? assuming list already have a cabbage.

One is a buff piece the other is a combat piece. Really depends what you want out of it.

[Izikail]

I like banner boss. The waaagh isnt dependant on a dice roll and the banna buff is far wide and reaching. The army already has punch in evey unit so a buff to make them all better is more impactfull than another fighter, if you want a fighter for that cost a grunta unit had more wounds and speed

[Malakree]

So specifically, in my list, the footboss is there to use the extra artefact. Metalrippers claw means all his attacks are at -2 rend which is significant. He also counts as an extra IJ for the purposes of the waaagh! And running bloodtoofs means he's in that battalion.

It's very situational as to what you want rather than "take this"

[Mortaal]

 

Quote

 

So specifically, in my list, the footboss is there to use the extra artefact. Metalrippers claw means all his attacks are at -2 rend which is significant. He also counts as an extra IJ for the purposes of the waaagh! And running bloodtoofs means he's in that battalion.

 

For that list Malakree I would choose the Ulgu realm providing you with the miasmatic blade for the -1 to hit on the Krusha, and the dimensional blade on the boss to gain -3 rend on his weapon. This even leaves you with the third choice of the mirrors for some extra magic defense. You could also gain these benefits from Chamon, although the -1 to hit would only be in melee yet the -3 rend remains. Also this will give you a potential extra dispell using the alchemical chain.

[Skabnoze]

I thought you could only take a single realm artifact even if you can take multiple artifacts?

[Malakree]

16 minutes ago, Mortaal said:

 

For that list Malakree I would choose the Ulgu realm providing you with the miasmatic blade for the -1 to hit on the Krusha, and the dimensional blade on the boss to gain -3 rend on his weapon. This even leaves you with the third choice of the mirrors for some extra magic defense. You could also gain these benefits from Chamon, although the -1 to hit would only be in melee yet the -3 rend remains. Also this will give you a potential extra dispell using the alchemical chain.

I knew there was another -1 to hit against them in there somewhere I just wasn't sure where.

Yep I would definately use that instead. Probably going with the following list.

Quote

Allegiance: Ironjawz
Mortal Realm: Ulgu

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)
- General
- Trait: Ironclad 
- Artefact: Miasmatic Blade 
Orruk Warchanter (80)
- Artefact: Sword of Judgement 
Orruk Warchanter (80)
- Artefact: Spellmirror 
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (80)
- Allies

Battleline
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)

Battalions
Ironfist (180)
Bloodtoofs (120)

Endless Spells
Chronomantic Cogs (60)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 80 / 400
Wounds: 122

Has everything you want as an IJ player, cogs for the +2 move/charge, Bloodtoofs for the bravery and charge. A good number of IJ units to bolster the Waaagh! Spell Mirror is risky but protects from endless spells aswell which given we are on 1 (maybe 2) spells a turn is pretty key. The -1 to hit on the cabbage with Ironclad makes him a ****** to get through and lastly is the 4 WC+Sword of Judgement because you might need to delete Alarielle or a stardrake or some other obnoxious opponent.

The fungoid gives you the spell options, it's a shame he breaks your 1drop but he's the only wizard we are getting with sacing another of the brute squads which really cuts into the Bomb turn effectiveness.

[Skabnoze]

I am still fairly sure that you only get 1 realm artifact and the rest have to come from your chosen allegiance artifacts.

I don’t have the books on hand though so I can not verify right now.

[Mortaal]

10 minutes ago, Skabnoze said:

I am still fairly sure that you only get 1 realm artifact and the rest have to come from your chosen allegiance artifacts.

I don’t have the books on hand though so I can not verify right now.

You can replace "any" of the artifacts with those listed in the malign sorcery, so you could get one up to as many you wish from the realm list.

[Malakree]

21 minutes ago, Skabnoze said:

I am still fairly sure that you only get 1 realm artifact and the rest have to come from your chosen allegiance artifacts.

I don’t have the books on hand though so I can not verify right now.

I thought exactly the same thing, went to go check it, found the "Any" part @Mortaal mentioned. It's confusing because the next paragraph says one artefact multiple times.

[Skabnoze]

Is it written in the core book?  Pretty sure it has a section for allegiance abilities and realm abilities.

I have seen the single item limitation referenced enough times to think that it is not a mistake.

It certainly makes for more interesting options if you can take multiples, but I am still not sure that you can.

[Malakree]

Malign Sorceries, page 79.

Quote

 

After choosing........If you do so you can select any of your artefacts of power from either or both of the lists in this section for the real that you chose. 

For example, if you decide your Order army is.....you could choose one artefact of power for your army from the Weapons or Relics of Ghyran tables instead of the Artefacts of Order table.

 

This is where the confusion is coming from. It clearly states. twice, that you can take multiple artefacts from your realm and that they can be from both tables of the realm if you have more than one.

When you think about it this makes WAY more sense than just one artefact from your realm. As an example Miasmatic Blade is Strictly worse than Gryph-feather Charm, when you consider taking 2/3 artefacts from your realm suddenly that becomes less relevant than the other options for the realm.

[Luke1705]

They say both because if you have warscroll battalion(s), you can take more than one artifact. Otherwise, you can only take one

[Skabnoze]

My books come in the mail tomorrow, so I have only skimmed through them so far or read/heard bits online.  I would not be surprised if I am completely wrong on this.  It’s what happens when you go for a very very hefty online discount and pick the slow-boat-from-China level of shipping. I saved enough money on the purchases that I made that I could have got a whole other Start Collecting box - so I am not complaining.

Honestly, I hope that I am wrong.  Picking only one realm item is kinda lame and I can’t really think of a good reason for that limitation.  And allowing multiple realm artifacts makes for more interesting list buildings - so I am all for it.

[Nogginnocker]

On 7/3/2018 at 5:36 PM, Malakree said:

Fungoid is really nice, if you take him he should be your general so you can try and exploit his CA.

This would be pretty sweet, but it's not currently legal under Pitched Battle rules.

On page 49 of General's Handbook 2018, "In a Pitched Battle, your general must be a Leader, and may not be an ally."

However, if you're just wanting to play against friends in a non-tournament legal setting, that would be pretty sweet. It would be nice for my Maw Krusha to fly away from a bunch of alpha striking protectors and charge something else on the same turn while my massive mob of ardboys tie them up for the rest of the game.

[Skabnoze]

13 minutes ago, Nogginnocker said:

This would be pretty sweet, but it's not currently legal under Pitched Battle rules.

On page 49 of General's Handbook 2018, "In a Pitched Battle, your general must be a Leader, and may not be an ally."

However, if you're just wanting to play against friends in a non-tournament legal setting, that would be pretty sweet. It would be nice for my Maw Krusha to fly away from a bunch of alpha striking protectors and charge something else on the same turn while my massive mob of ardboys tie them up for the rest of the game.

It is still in the Malign Portents errata for the Herald models.

[Nogginnocker]

Holy ******. That's awesome. Thank you for pointing that out to me. I'm absolutely going to use this!!

[Skabnoze]

4 minutes ago, Nogginnocker said:

Holy ******. That's awesome. Thank you for pointing that out to me. I'm absolutely going to use this!!

I would not be surprised if it changes if/when a Moonclan book is released.  They very well may rework the Fungoid Shaman warscroll to a certain extent.  But they also might remove the requirement to be a general for his ability.  The Knight of Shrouds was changed a bit in the Nighthaunt book I think.

But at the moment it appears that you can use the Malign Portents herald rules to make the guy your general.