Enochi Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 Been messing around with my old Order Draconis list that was 60 points under last edition and with the battalion dropping 50 points gives me a few more options that I think makes the list one of the premier "Alpha Strike" list for the time being. Okay for those new to the list the Dragonlord host gives the battalion what amounts to a double move with a few bonus once per game and with our min 12" speed stat that makes getting to where we want to go a breeze. I feel of our (admittedly limited) Ally spellcaster options the Archmage is best over all having a solid spell, +1 on Despelling and a whooping 14" movement letting him keep up with the army. Having only 4 drops should give us exceptional odds of going first. Now here is where the fun begins with out new shiny shiny artifacts and fun new spells. With Chronomantic cogs giving an additional 2" movement that means 2 of our 3 dragons will be moving a whooping 32" inches to set up there attacks and now gives out 3rd dragon decent odds to get in the fray first turn as well. Also with +2" on charges means we can position our dragons further deeper into their lines and our troops have next to no chance of failing their charges. We can also spread out further as each Dragonlord can create a 10" reroll hits bubble rather then just the General. Now we get into out new artifacts.....and they are GLORIOUS! Dimensional Blade turns our already good Dragon lance into on the charge a +3 +2 -3! D3. On our leader that make him have 4-7 attacks (Thanks to the War horns) Rerolling hits (With command ability). Thats just dirty and doesn't even touch on the rest of the attacks from claws and jaws. Now the next artifact is already known to us. The Quicksilver potion lets us immediately attack with our 2nd Dragon hopefully crippling anything that could threaten it before our opponent gets to activate. Now previously that would let our opponent then get to activate and try to lay low out 3rd Dragon before it gets to have its fun. Oh not anymore as it has my new FAVORITE artifact the Doppelganger Cloak. This I think is the BEST hand down artifact for a melee beatstick as it prevents your opponent from targeting it in combat until after it activates. SO GOOD! Just so you know if your opponent has less units in combat then you and you have at least 1 other unit in combat with whatever the Cloak-bearer is fighting if you activate correctly your opponent cannot attack the bearer. At the very least whatever is in combat with the Bearer is getting hit first. (Though do note if your opponent has a cloak as well if both bearers of the Cloak are in combat solely with each other neither will be able to attack. Allegiance: Order Draconis - Mortal Realm: Ulgu LEADERS Dragonlord (340) - General - Command Trait : Legendary Fighter - War Horn & Dragon Lance - Artefact : Dimensional Blade Dragonlord (340) - War Horn & Dragon Lance - Artefact : Doppelganger Cloak Dragonlord (340) - War Horn & Dragon Lance - Artefact : Quicksilver Potion Archmage (100) - Steed - Allies UNITS 5 x Dragon Blades (140) 5 x Dragon Blades (140) 5 x Dragon Blades (140) 5 x Dragon Blades (140) BATTALIONS Dragonlord Host (130) Dragonlord Host (130) ENDLESS SPELLS Chronomantic Cogs (60) TOTAL: 2000/2000 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 2 WOUNDS: 87 LEADERS: 4/6 BATTLELINES: 4 (3+) BEHEMOTHS: 3/4 ARTILLERY: 0/4 ARTEFACTS: 3/3 ALLIES: 100/400 Well have fun out there with this my friends! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Misfire Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 Don't forget to make your army from Hallowheart if you've got access to Season of War: Firestorm for free unbinding bonuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enochi Posted July 3, 2018 Author Share Posted July 3, 2018 1 minute ago, Double Misfire said: Don't forget to make your army from Hallowheart if you've got access to Season of War: Firestorm for free unbinding bonuses. Does that let Dragonblades be battline? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Misfire Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 18 minutes ago, Enochi said: Does that let Dragonblades be battline? Yes, it does. Free City allegiance abilities are just something you slap on top of the existing vanilla Order allegiance abilities if your army meets the qualifies, detailed in a long post I made here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tizianolol Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 But when you write the list you have to chose real too? If the game is played in another realm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Misfire Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 3 hours ago, Tizianolol said: But when you write the list you have to chose real too? If the game is played in another realm? You can choose for your army to come from a specific Mortal Realm, gaining access to extra artefacts in addition to the ones listed in their allegiance abilities (if your army isn't fighting in the realm they're from it's probably pretty safe to assume they've travelled by realmgate). It's all in Malign Sorcery, check it out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beliman Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 Thx a lot @Double Misfire!! So, let me understand If I'm doing it right: 1-I chose an specific Allegiance (Not GA), and build a list taking "Battleline If..." units for that Alliance. Doesn't matter if they need an specific General or are from an specific Allegiance. 2-Instead using their specific Allegiance abilities, I use GA abilities. 3-Because of point 2, I can take a "Firestorm city" abilities, if all my units are from that city. Is that correct? If that's correct, can I build my list with battalions and take allies? If yes, can allies be from outside of the city or they need to still be from the same city? From Firestorm errata, I understand that you can take other allies but if they aren't from the same city, they don't recieve this abilities (but still be legal). Is that true or I'm just really bad at understanding rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Misfire Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 16 minutes ago, Beliman said: Thx a lot @Double Misfire!! So, let me understand If I'm doing it right: 1-I chose an specific Allegiance (Not GA), and build a list taking "Battleline If..." units for that Alliance. Doesn't matter if they need an specific General or are from an specific Allegiance. 2-Instead using their specific Allegiance abilities, I use GA abilities. 3-Because of point 2, I can take a "Firestorm city" abilities, if all my units are from that city. Is that correct? If that's correct, can I build my list with battalions and take allies? If yes, can allies be from outside of the city or they need to still be from the same city? From Firestorm errata, I understand that you can take other allies but if they aren't from the same city, they don't recieve this abilities (but still be legal). Is that true or I'm just really bad at understanding rules. Correct on points 1, 2 and 3. The rules aren't currently on 100% clear on if Free City lists can take allies from outside their list of allowed factions (or named character allies) in the new edition of AoS. I've emailed the faq team about it, but for now I'd play it safe and go with @BaldoBeardo's interpretation that they can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tizianolol Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 im sorry dude .. but is the same for matched play games? Xd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Misfire Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 1 hour ago, Tizianolol said: im sorry dude .. but is the same for matched play games? Xd Yes, it's the same for matched play as it is all other formats. It's the realm-specific spells that can only be used in the realm being fought in, not realm artefacts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markymarkka Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 On 7/3/2018 at 4:50 PM, Enochi said: Been messing around with my old Order Draconis list that was 60 points under last edition and with the battalion dropping 50 points gives me a few more options that I think makes the list one of the premier "Alpha Strike" list for the time being. Okay for those new to the list the Dragonlord host gives the battalion what amounts to a double move with a few bonus once per game and with our min 12" speed stat that makes getting to where we want to go a breeze. I feel of our (admittedly limited) Ally spellcaster options the Archmage is best over all having a solid spell, +1 on Despelling and a whooping 14" movement letting him keep up with the army. Having only 4 drops should give us exceptional odds of going first. Now here is where the fun begins with out new shiny shiny artifacts and fun new spells. With Chronomantic cogs giving an additional 2" movement that means 2 of our 3 dragons will be moving a whooping 32" inches to set up there attacks and now gives out 3rd dragon decent odds to get in the fray first turn as well. Also with +2" on charges means we can position our dragons further deeper into their lines and our troops have next to no chance of failing their charges. We can also spread out further as each Dragonlord can create a 10" reroll hits bubble rather then just the General. Now we get into out new artifacts.....and they are GLORIOUS! Dimensional Blade turns our already good Dragon lance into on the charge a +3 +2 -3! D3. On our leader that make him have 4-7 attacks (Thanks to the War horns) Rerolling hits (With command ability). Thats just dirty and doesn't even touch on the rest of the attacks from claws and jaws. Now the next artifact is already known to us. The Quicksilver potion lets us immediately attack with our 2nd Dragon hopefully crippling anything that could threaten it before our opponent gets to activate. Now previously that would let our opponent then get to activate and try to lay low out 3rd Dragon before it gets to have its fun. Oh not anymore as it has my new FAVORITE artifact the Doppelganger Cloak. This I think is the BEST hand down artifact for a melee beatstick as it prevents your opponent from targeting it in combat until after it activates. SO GOOD! Just so you know if your opponent has less units in combat then you and you have at least 1 other unit in combat with whatever the Cloak-bearer is fighting if you activate correctly your opponent cannot attack the bearer. At the very least whatever is in combat with the Bearer is getting hit first. (Though do note if your opponent has a cloak as well if both bearers of the Cloak are in combat solely with each other neither will be able to attack. Allegiance: Order Draconis - Mortal Realm: Ulgu LEADERS Dragonlord (340) - General - Command Trait : Legendary Fighter - War Horn & Dragon Lance - Artefact : Dimensional Blade Im sorry for this question, are you allowed to choose freely from the Realm Artifacts? I suppose your new artifacts are from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enochi Posted July 9, 2018 Author Share Posted July 9, 2018 On 7/5/2018 at 2:53 AM, markymarkka said: Im sorry for this question, are you allowed to choose freely from the Realm Artifacts? I suppose your new artifacts are from there. Yes you can pick 1 Realm for your army to be from and use the relics from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aezeal Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 On 7/3/2018 at 4:48 PM, Double Misfire said: Yes, it does. Free City allegiance abilities are just something you slap on top of the existing vanilla Order allegiance abilities if your army meets the qualifies, detailed in a long post I made here. Hallowheart is not in Ulgu though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Misfire Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 2 hours ago, Aezeal said: Hallowheart is not in Ulgu though Uhhh... similar city to Hallowheart located in Uglu or artefacts "recovered" from Uglu... Hammerhal might be a better Free City for an army with such a low model count mind. You'be be guaranteed immune to battleshock pretty much the entire time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue Sun Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 11 hours ago, Double Misfire said: Uhhh... similar city to Hallowheart located in Uglu or artefacts "recovered" from Uglu... Hammerhal might be a better Free City for an army with such a low model count mind. You'be be guaranteed immune to battleshock pretty much the entire time. Order Draconis are immune to battleshock while they are nearby other Order Draconis units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaanesh Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Just till clarify the new wish thinking about firestorm allegiances, its quite clear I think but to quote the article when they relased the match played rules: "The Great Cities allegiance abilities are still legal for matched play and still don’t cost any points. The only change is that you won’t be able to stack the allegiance abilities from Firestorm with any others apart from the Grand Allegiance abilities. For instance, a force of Dispossessedcould either choose the Dispossessed allegiance abilities from the General’s Handbook 2017 OR the Order allegiance abilities and the Hammerhal allegiance abilities. They could not take the Dispossessed and Hammerhal allegiance abilities together." https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/10/06/firestorm-matched-play-rules-update/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divineauthority Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Yeah, what @Slaanesh says above would stop you from taking your army as Hallowheart because you'd lose the battleline options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swarmofseals Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 4 hours ago, divineauthority said: Yeah, what @Slaanesh says above would stop you from taking your army as Hallowheart because you'd lose the battleline options. It actually wouldn't as "battleline-if" isn't actually an allegiance ability. The reasoning for this is really convoluted and I'm not sure I understand it myself, but it's worked this way since long ago. Back in the day you'd see Ironjawz lists using Ironjawz "battleline-if" units as battleline while taking the Grand Alliance: Destruction allegiance abilities. This happened all the time in tournament play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syph0n Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 3 minutes ago, swarmofseals said: It actually wouldn't as "battleline-if" isn't actually an allegiance ability. The reasoning for this is really convoluted and I'm not sure I understand it myself, but it's worked this way since long ago. Back in the day you'd see Ironjawz lists using Ironjawz "battleline-if" units as battleline while taking the Grand Alliance: Destruction allegiance abilities. This happened all the time in tournament play. Yes - you can build a battleline-if army and take a City allegiance. The logic goes 'this is an Order Draconis army from Anvilgard'. My understanding is the City allegiances stack with the Order/GA ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divineauthority Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 18 hours ago, swarmofseals said: It actually wouldn't as "battleline-if" isn't actually an allegiance ability. The reasoning for this is really convoluted and I'm not sure I understand it myself, but it's worked this way since long ago. Back in the day you'd see Ironjawz lists using Ironjawz "battleline-if" units as battleline while taking the Grand Alliance: Destruction allegiance abilities. This happened all the time in tournament play. Sorry, my bad! I never play in tournaments and have never seen it locally done. We've always treated that you a Sylvaneth army for example is one taking the Sylvaneth allegiance but I see now how you allegiance abilities are effectively another army building choice unlocked depending on army composition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beliman Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 On 7/10/2018 at 12:01 PM, divineauthority said: Yeah, what @Slaanesh says above would stop you from taking your army as Hallowheart because you'd lose the battleline options. From GHB217 (2018 don't have any explanation), the allegiance is the keyword that you need to build the army. So, if you chose the "order draconis" keyword, you build your army around it (batalions, allies, battleline if..., etc...). After that, Allegiance Abilities give you a new option (ghb2017): "An army with an allegiance can use the allegiance abilities specific to that allegiance in any game of Warhammer Age of Sigmar." An allegiance ability is composed of: Battle traits (abilities from your army, stormhosts, KO code, etc...), Command Traits and Artefacts of power (relics, weapons, endrinworks, etc...). But that doesn't mean that GA:Order abilitites are banned! Spell-lores are a bit tricky. I only have the Idoneth Deepkin battletome, so I can't read how they function in other armies. But from the ID: "Each IDONETH DEEPKIN WIZARD in an IDONETH DEEPKIN army knows an additional spell chosen from the Lore of the Deeps." What's an "Idoneth Army"? We have two answers: 1. It's the allegiance , so even an Idoneth Deepkin with GA:Order abilities can still use their spell lore. 2. It's part of the allegiance abilities, so banned from everyone than idoneth Deepkin allegiance using their allegiance abilitites. P.D: Anyone knows if this has been FAQ'd? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syph0n Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 My understanding of this, because I queried it for using a Medusa in a none-Daughters of Khaine army, is that you cannot use the spell lore associated outside of it being a Daughters of Khaine army. IE: a DoK general, DoK battleline etc. I can well imagine the Idoneth Deepkin wizards are the same. You'd get the warscroll spell plus the universal ones, nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beliman Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 35 minutes ago, syph0n said: My understanding of this, because I queried it for using a Medusa in a none-Daughters of Khaine army, is that you cannot use the spell lore associated outside of it being a Daughters of Khaine army. IE: a DoK general, DoK battleline etc. I can well imagine the Idoneth Deepkin wizards are the same. You'd get the warscroll spell plus the universal ones, nothing more. But what happen if I pick Daughters of Khaine Allegiance, and pick GA:Order Allegiance abilitites? Can I still take spell-lores? I would say yes, because they marked with bold the keyword, so it's the allegiance, and not the abilitites. But I'm not sure if I'm right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divineauthority Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 17 hours ago, Beliman said: But what happen if I pick Daughters of Khaine Allegiance, and pick GA:Order Allegiance abilitites? Can I still take spell-lores? I would say yes, because they marked with bold the keyword, so it's the allegiance, and not the abilitites. But I'm not sure if I'm right. I'd agree with you here after the enlightenment on allegiance vs allegiance abilities. In the Idoneth book at least, the Lore of the Deeps is separate from the allegiance abilities section and therefore I think you're right that as long as you are playing an Idoneth allegience, you can take the spells. Even if you use Order allegiance abilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrllaine Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 To further clarify. I want to play hallowheart: -if I play pure stormcast I can use stormcasts only battleline as battleline -if I play mixed order I need to use generic battleline to fill the slots There isn't anyway to do both right? Having a mix of units and using conditional battlelines? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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