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45 minutes ago, Nevar said:

Bladegeists are substantially better than Grimgasts.

This sentence is not a claim that Grimgasts are not good, only a claim that Bladegeists are better.  Chaingasts can be killed easily, but their safety is at least partially under your control.  The number in an enemy unit is completely out of your control.

2" reach is super good on models with as large of bases as Grims and Blades, however it is mainly good when you have large numbers of them.  With 10-15 models you will rarely need the 2", especially with flying models with 8" move base.  30 Grimgasts would be absolutely terrible to get into combat without the 2" reach... I don't think I would ever take Bladegeists in larger squads than 15.  I use Hexwraiths in a block of 15 riders, and regularly can't get four or five of them into combat.  They have 1" reach and twice the size of bases. Bladegeists have half the size bases and 3 attacks on the charge.  They will hit like a small truck when they land.

At the end of the day their offensive capabilities are a trade off and you can argue one way or the other.  Their durability is the same.  Yet the Bladegeists have an extremely good mobility advantage on the Grimgasts, and in an objective based game, mobility is king.  This means two otherwise mostly the same units, are set apart from each other by their ability to move and react to enemy movements, and/or relocate to score.  Bladegeists are entirely better than Grimgasts in this regard, thus they are substantially better than grimgasts.

Easy way to prove this to yourself, if they both costed exactly the same, and were both battle line, which would you take?

In his list, he was taking Grims because they also filled battle line, but what he actually wanted were Bladegeists, which is why my suggestion was taken so well.

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If you read what I said, I wasn't claiming such. The reach is handy even in a group of 10 and their cost is a factor. I just don't see them as being a strictly better unit

Not trying to attack you. So not sure exactly why you are coming off as so defensive.

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Not attempting to be defensive, just clarifying as other people including you seem to come to the Grimgast defense as if I am saying they are bad units.  I just want to make it clear that I am not of the opinion Grimgasts are bad units in the slightest, because if someone comes here and reads my comments as disparanging to the Grimgasts and it causes them to not get the Grims or walk away thinking they are bad units, I will have done a disservice to those other readers.  I did not take your posts as attacks, instead I saw them as evidence I might not have communicated my position well and therefore I needed to give further detail.

I like Grimgasts, I have been a supporter of them since we first started seeing leaks in the main Nighthaunt thread.   That said, I do not think it is just my opinion when I say Bladegeists are objectively better units when comparing their abilities.  Points cost and battle field role comes into play and can shift that balance, but if they were same points and battle line as I mentioned, Bladegeists are strictly better.

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Sorry I am not trying to imply that.  I guess I read you a little bit more black and white than what you intended.

When I refer to strictly better I refer to the use in MTG where  Strictly better describes a card which is, in isolation from other effects, superior to another card in at least one respect, while being worse in zero respects, In which case they are not strictly better.

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32 minutes ago, Spooked said:

Sorry I am not trying to imply that.  I guess I read you a little bit more black and white than what you intended.

When I refer to strictly better I refer to the use in MTG where  Strictly better describes a card which is, in isolation from other effects, superior to another card in at least one respect, while being worse in zero respects, In which case they are not strictly better.

Bladegeists will always be strictly worse than Grimgasts in the army role category for instance as Grims are battlelines.  Using your definition of strictly better.

Bladegeists will always be strictly better than Grimgasts in mobility, due to being able to retreat and charge.

When it comes to offensive capabilities I would say they are basically a wash.  You will get more Grimgasts into swing because of the 2" reach, but you will get more attacks from each Bladegeist due to their 3 attacks on the charge.  Both can reroll their attacks through different means, and both do basically the same damage.

Defensively, again they are a wash as they are basically the same ghost stats. 1 Wound, 4+ save immune to rend, squads from 10-30.

Basically Bladegeists will out preform Grimgasts, but the cost and army comp slots of Bladegeists might be enough to make the Grimgasts a better choice in your army list.

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1 hour ago, Nevar said:

Bladegeists will always be strictly worse than Grimgasts in the army role category for instance as Grims are battlelines.  Using your definition of strictly better.

Bladegeists will always be strictly better than Grimgasts in mobility, due to being able to retreat and charge.

When it comes to offensive capabilities I would say they are basically a wash.  You will get more Grimgasts into swing because of the 2" reach, but you will get more attacks from each Bladegeist due to their 3 attacks on the charge.  Both can reroll their attacks through different means, and both do basically the same damage.

Defensively, again they are a wash as they are basically the same ghost stats. 1 Wound, 4+ save immune to rend, squads from 10-30.

Basically Bladegeists will out preform Grimgasts, but the cost and army comp slots of Bladegeists might be enough to make the Grimgasts a better choice in your army list.

Bladegheists are units of 5-20 though, you get 20 slightly cheaper than 30 Grimghasts. (320 vs 360)

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Some opinions about this list:

Allegiance: Nighthaunt
Mortal Realm: Shyish

Leaders
Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (140)
- General
- Trait: Ruler of the Spirit Hosts 
- Artefact: Midnight Tome 
Lady Olynder, Mortarch of Grief (240)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Soul Cage
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Shademist
- Infernal Lantern (Artefact): Beacon of Nagashizzar
Spirit Torment (120)

Battleline
20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)
20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)
20 x Grimghast Reapers (280)

Units
2 x Chainghasts (80)
12 x Myrmourn Banshees (210)

Behemoths
Black Coach (280)

Battalions
Chainguard (120)

Endless Spells
Shyish Reaper (40)

Total: 1970 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 111

 

The knight of shrouds probably gonna use spirit drain for spell or change the relic to slitter for a 10+ double slitter turn.

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3 hours ago, KoalaSnok said:

Bladegheists are units of 5-20 though, you get 20 slightly cheaper than 30 Grimghasts. (320 vs 360)

You are correct, I thought they were up to 30 as well, shows what I know.  Yeah, because of the 1" reach I would never field them in more than 15, where on the other hand I would field 30 Grimgasts for sure.  This also highlights their table top role as hammer and anvil.  Grimgasts are much better deploying right up the middle and slugging it out with your enemy's mainline while being revived by local heroes.

Bladegeists are likely best employed as deep-striking hammer units to attack the units Grims are holding up or hunt other units the main line was protecting.  Their fall back and charge ability lets them bounce around the battle almost at will, so you don't want them stuck slugging it in the middle like a Grimgast blob would.

8 minutes ago, Bashpan said:

Some opinions about this list:

Allegiance: Nighthaunt
Mortal Realm: Shyish

Leaders
Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (140)
- General
- Trait: Ruler of the Spirit Hosts 
- Artefact: Midnight Tome 
Lady Olynder, Mortarch of Grief (240)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Soul Cage
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Shademist
- Infernal Lantern (Artefact): Beacon of Nagashizzar
Spirit Torment (120)

Battleline
20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)
20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)
20 x Grimghast Reapers (280)

Units
2 x Chainghasts (80)
12 x Myrmourn Banshees (210)

Behemoths
Black Coach (280)

Battalions
Chainguard (120)

Endless Spells
Shyish Reaper (40)

Total: 1970 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 111

 

The knight of shrouds probably gonna use spirit drain for spell or change the relic to slitter for a 10+ double slitter turn.

Can't have too many casters in AoS2.0, and although I am a firm believer that you should field the Grimgasts in at least x20 man blobs, in your list it seems like you don't have a specific 'anvil' unit so to speak.  x20 Chainrasps are respectable, but a x40 blob would be even better.  Maybe consider an x40 Chainrasp blob and two x10 Grimghasts to run up your flanks and attack things the Chainrasps hold in place, or run down other enemy units.   You would have to be a bit more careful with the Grims, but it could give you good flank projection with their 8" base move.   The Chainguard is really good though... mmmm... I dunno the Command Point and Artifact is probably worth the smaller numbers of Chainrasps.  You will just always be tempted to over expose the Grimgasts with their speed to outrun the main line of chainrasps.  I know i would be.

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1 minute ago, Nevar said:

You are correct, I thought they were up to 30 as well, shows what I know.  Yeah, because of the 1" reach I would never field them in more than 15, where on the other hand I would field 30 Grimgasts for sure.  This also highlights their table top role as hammer and anvil.  Grimgasts are much better deploying right up the middle and slugging it out with your enemy's mainline while being revived by local heroes.

Bladegeists are likely best employed as deep-striking hammer units to attack the units Grims are holding up or hunt other units the main line was protecting.  Their fall back and charge ability lets them bounce around the battle almost at will, so you don't want them stuck slugging it in the middle like a Grimgast blob would.

Can't have too many casters in AoS2.0, and although I am a firm believer that you should field the Grimgasts in at least x20 man blobs, in your list it seems like you don't have a specific 'anvil' unit so to speak.  x20 Chainrasps are respectable, but a x40 blob would be even better.  Maybe consider an x40 Chainrasp blob and two x10 Grimghasts to run up your flanks and attack things the Chainrasps hold in place, or run down other enemy units.   You would have to be a bit more careful with the Grims, but it could give you good flank projection with their 8" base move.   The Chainguard is really good though... mmmm... I dunno the Command Point and Artifact is probably worth the smaller numbers of Chainrasps.  You will just always be tempted to over expose the Grimgasts with their speed to outrun the main line of chainrasps.  I know i would be.

I want to try this list because they are units i have at the moment except the new black coach im using the old one.

The first list i want to try when i have everything was something like this:

Allegiance: Nighthaunt
Mortal Realm: Shyish

Leaders
Reikenor the Grimhailer (180)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Soul Cage
Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (140)
- General
- Trait: Ruler of the Spirit Hosts 
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Shademist
- Infernal Lantern (Artefact): Beacon of Nagashizzar
Spirit Torment (120)

Battleline
40 x Chainrasp Horde (280)
20 x Grimghast Reapers (280)
20 x Grimghast Reapers (280)

Units
2 x Chainghasts (80)
12 x Myrmourn Banshees (210)

Behemoths
Black Coach (280)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 131

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On 7/9/2018 at 4:26 AM, PFI said:

This list might not seem much but i think its got potential

Reikenor

Chronomantic cogs

mKoS pendant of fell wind, rulef ofthe spirthosts

40 chainrasps

30 grimghasts

30 grimghasts

Black Coach

Black Coach

1940/2000

You start with an additional command point which allows you to give your buff to both ghast hnits on turn 1

You have 7 drops which seemed low from a competetive standpoint

30 grims under+1 attack can kill a blob of 40 skellies on average so they arent lacking in the dmg department, you have the coachs which can most likely get run and charge turn 1 for 19" plus run +2d6 +2 charge  

And you cover your rear with 40 chainrasps

Id Probably prefer 2x Gurdian Of Souls to follow the hordes instead of the second Black Coach...

IMO

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Hi all, new to AoS - got lured in by the amazing ghost models. I have done a fair amount of reading so hopefully I have a reasonable idea how stuff works, but best come to those who have actual experience eh ;)

Basically I am hoping to make a Shrieker Host work, since I love all the Banshee-type models.  So basically, going down the bravery attack angle. Anyway, here's my current list idea...

Allegiance: Nighthaunt
Mortal Realm: Shyish

Leaders
Lady Olynder (240)

- Lore of the Underworlds: Soul Cage

Reikenor the Grimhailer (180)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Shademist

Spirit Torment (120)
- General: Supernatural Horror
- Artefact: Midnight Tome
- Lore of the Underworlds: Spectral Tether

Tomb Banshee (80)
- Artefact: Blade of Dark Summons

Battleline
10 x Chainrasp Horde (80)

10 x Chainrasp Horde (80)
30 x Grimghast Reapers (360)

Units
5 x Dreadscythe Harridans (90)

5 x Dreadscythe Harridans (90)
12 x Myrmourn Banshees (210)
12 x Myrmourn Banshees (210)

Endless Spells

Suffocating Gravetide (30)
Ravenak’s Gnashing Jaws (40)

Total: 1950 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 107

 

Comments welcome! The general idea is to take everything possible to minimise enemy bravery. The 2 endless spells coupled with NH's native -3 can stack to a -3 total, and then we also have: reroll 1s on battleshock from the battalion, +1 model flees from battleshock from Olynder, and double the models fleeing from battleshock from the general's command trait. And then denial of inspiring presence with the battalion as well. So outside of total immunity to battleshock, hopefully the tests should prove devastating.

Reikenor is there for the bonuses to cast, to ensure endless spells go off, whilst Olynder is a) a giant banshee, b) pretty great at forcing multiple battleshock tests, and c) has some bravery attacks of her own. The Torment is largely to keep those two topped up nicely, whilst the Banshee is required. I was a bit stuck for a second artefact on the Banshee, so the summoning blade is a bit of filler, but I figure a free ~7 Myrmourns isn't half bad, and it fits thematically.

The Reapers are there as a bit of a hammer, hopefully able to make it across the board in short order and begin smashing a couple of things to force bravery checks. Hordes are filler screens/obj holders. The Myrmourns should help me ensure magical dominance, as well as being really rather nasty to any elite units in those numbers (I do wish I could fit in a KoS mounted though). Harridans I know people are a bit down on, so my thought there is not to invest heavily, and use them as a unit that is easy to hide but still packs quite a punch for their small numbers.

I am expecting half the army to come in from reserves; probably most of the formation, though if the enemy can delete Olynder if they get T1 I can happily drop the Harridans too. What I am not sure on is if I have enough of two things: a) enough general damage output to force the BS tests I need to, and b) enough targeted MWs to be able to down the odd character that gives battleshock immunity (Lord Ordinators, I think?)

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4 hours ago, Benlisted said:

Hi all, new to AoS - got lured in by the amazing ghost models. I have done a fair amount of reading so hopefully I have a reasonable idea how stuff works, but best come to those who have actual experience eh ;)

Basically I am hoping to make a Shrieker Host work, since I love all the Banshee-type models.  So basically, going down the bravery attack angle. Anyway, here's my current list idea...

Allegiance: Nighthaunt
Mortal Realm: Shyish

Leaders
Lady Olynder (240)

- Lore of the Underworlds: Soul Cage

Reikenor the Grimhailer (180)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Shademist

Spirit Torment (120)
- General: Supernatural Horror
- Artefact: Midnight Tome
- Lore of the Underworlds: Spectral Tether

Tomb Banshee (80)
- Artefact: Blade of Dark Summons

Battleline
10 x Chainrasp Horde (80)

10 x Chainrasp Horde (80)
30 x Grimghast Reapers (360)

Units
5 x Dreadscythe Harridans (90)

5 x Dreadscythe Harridans (90)
12 x Myrmourn Banshees (210)
12 x Myrmourn Banshees (210)

Endless Spells

Suffocating Gravetide (30)
Ravenak’s Gnashing Jaws (40)

Total: 1950 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 107

 

Comments welcome! The general idea is to take everything possible to minimise enemy bravery. The 2 endless spells coupled with NH's native -3 can stack to a -3 total, and then we also have: reroll 1s on battleshock from the battalion, +1 model flees from battleshock from Olynder, and double the models fleeing from battleshock from the general's command trait. And then denial of inspiring presence with the battalion as well. So outside of total immunity to battleshock, hopefully the tests should prove devastating.

Reikenor is there for the bonuses to cast, to ensure endless spells go off, whilst Olynder is a) a giant banshee, b) pretty great at forcing multiple battleshock tests, and c) has some bravery attacks of her own. The Torment is largely to keep those two topped up nicely, whilst the Banshee is required. I was a bit stuck for a second artefact on the Banshee, so the summoning blade is a bit of filler, but I figure a free ~7 Myrmourns isn't half bad, and it fits thematically.

The Reapers are there as a bit of a hammer, hopefully able to make it across the board in short order and begin smashing a couple of things to force bravery checks. Hordes are filler screens/obj holders. The Myrmourns should help me ensure magical dominance, as well as being really rather nasty to any elite units in those numbers (I do wish I could fit in a KoS mounted though). Harridans I know people are a bit down on, so my thought there is not to invest heavily, and use them as a unit that is easy to hide but still packs quite a punch for their small numbers.

I am expecting half the army to come in from reserves; probably most of the formation, though if the enemy can delete Olynder if they get T1 I can happily drop the Harridans too. What I am not sure on is if I have enough of two things: a) enough general damage output to force the BS tests I need to, and b) enough targeted MWs to be able to down the odd character that gives battleshock immunity (Lord Ordinators, I think?)

Hopefully you included it, but it is not listed as far as I see.  The battalions cost additional points, they are not free.  It looks like you want the Banshee Battalion, but you did not list it's points cost, did you include it in your calculations?

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3 hours ago, Nevar said:

Hopefully you included it, but it is not listed as far as I see.  The battalions cost additional points, they are not free.  It looks like you want the Banshee Battalion, but you did not list it's points cost, did you include it in your calculations?

I did include its cost yeah, my bad for not listing it. Now on mobile I can’t seem to edit the post to add it though...

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OK, been having a play around and have come up with something a little different from my last

Battlations

Execution Horde

Leaders

Lady Olynder - General

Lord Executioner
A - Balefire Blade

Spirit Torment
A - Midnight Tome

 

Battleline

Spirit Hosts x6

Spirit Hosts x3

Spirit Hosts x3

 

Other Units

Bladegheist Revenants x15

Bladegheist Revenants x15

Chainghasts x2

Myrmourn Banshees x4 (Could swap this out for another 2 Chainghasts)

 

Behemoth

Black Coach

 

Dead on 2000 points. Any suggestions?

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7 hours ago, Spooked said:

Ignore me, I can't read.

I prefer the bladegheist model, just wish I know when things would come out

Likewise, the slow drip of releases is killing me, but it is at least giving my wallet time to breath as new things release.  Dreadblade Harrows and Reikenor are next on the chopping block, and those are first day buys for me.

My favorite new models when it comes to looks is the Bladegeists for sure, but I am not sure I will buy them immediately.

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Well well well...my turn to build a list. I'm planing to be fast and hit hard. This is a hero and elite heavy list.

bataillon death riders 130 1 130
hex 160 2 320
hex  160 2 320
Dreadblade harrow 100 1 100
Black coach 280 1 280
       
       
guardian of soul 140 1 140
reikenor 180 1 180
       
lady olynder 240 1 240
spirit hosts 120 2 240

50 points left for CP or magic/Endless spell (which one?)

the bataillon is for fast attacking the ennemies around the  map. It'll be helped by the wizard reikonor. The dreadblade harrow can also teleport around if needed.

Guardian and lady with their personal bodyguards, the spirirts host, are here to hit hard and cast spells.

Maybe the guardian of soul go with hex on demand....it'll depend...

I already have the 20 hex, spirit host and the starter set. The harrow/lady/reiko will arrive this week-end . So, I just have to wait for the BC. I'll play with a mortis engine  as a BC.

 

What do you think? (and yes, we are far from a horde...)

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50 minutes ago, GeneralZero said:

Well well well...my turn to build a list. I'm planing to be fast and hit hard. This is a hero and elite heavy list.

bataillon death riders 130 1 130
hex 160 2 320
hex  160 2 320
Dreadblade harrow 100 1 100
Black coach 280 1 280
       
       
guardian of soul 140 1 140
reikenor 180 1 180
       
lady olynder 240 1 240
spirit hosts 120 2 240

50 points left for CP or magic/Endless spell (which one?)

the bataillon is for fast attacking the ennemies around the  map. It'll be helped by the wizard reikonor. The dreadblade harrow can also teleport around if needed.

Guardian and lady with their personal bodyguards, the spirirts host, are here to hit hard and cast spells.

Maybe the guardian of soul go with hex on demand....it'll depend...

I already have the 20 hex, spirit host and the starter set. The harrow/lady/reiko will arrive this week-end . So, I just have to wait for the BC. I'll play with a mortis engine  as a BC.

 

What do you think? (and yes, we are far from a horde...)

Your only problem is low number of wounds and models.  If you hit hard enough without getting bogged down somewhere it could be fine.

In this case the extra command point might be better than an endless spell so you can use two in the first turn to reroll up to two of your charges.  The first turn charge will likely be long ones, and making it in quickly to hit hard and fast might do you better than any Endless Spell, especially since enemies can just dispel them.  Can't dispel a successful charge.  If you enemy moves up close to you so you don't need to do long charges, you could even reroll a successful charge to try and get the 9+ charge.

If you did want an endless spell though, you want the Chronomantic Cogs.  +2" to your move and charge rolls.  Our Wave of Terror ability goes off on a 10+ meaning bonuses like a +2" make it more likely to happen.  With your Death Rider battalion they will be getting their fight immediately charges on a 7+ roll of the dice if under the effect of the Cogs.  Thinking about it now... might be worth it to take the cogs and then just deep-strike the Death Rider battalion at 9".  That would let you roll for 7+ on the dice for everything that you need to get into combat.  This is extremely reliant on that Cogs, but you can deploy the Guardian of souls way out in the middle of no where out of unbind/dispel range, drop the cogs on the corner of the map somewhere, then use the general to teleport him back into the battle.

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I was hesitating with the second half of the army (outside the bataillon). 

Or there is another approach where I invest less in deathriders bataillon (only 2x5 hex) leaving some room for a big central 30 reapers unit. But this time, new hesitation between Lady Olynder or kurdoss ...

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1 hour ago, Nevar said:

Your only problem is low number of wounds and models.  If you hit hard enough without getting bogged down somewhere it could be fine.

In this case the extra command point might be better than an endless spell so you can use two in the first turn to reroll up to two of your charges.  The first turn charge will likely be long ones, and making it in quickly to hit hard and fast might do you better than any Endless Spell, especially since enemies can just dispel them.  Can't dispel a successful charge.  If you enemy moves up close to you so you don't need to do long charges, you could even reroll a successful charge to try and get the 9+ charge.

If you did want an endless spell though, you want the Chronomantic Cogs.  +2" to your move and charge rolls.  Our Wave of Terror ability goes off on a 10+ meaning bonuses like a +2" make it more likely to happen.  With your Death Rider battalion they will be getting their fight immediately charges on a 7+ roll of the dice if under the effect of the Cogs.  Thinking about it now... might be worth it to take the cogs and then just deep-strike the Death Rider battalion at 9".  That would let you roll for 7+ on the dice for everything that you need to get into combat.  This is extremely reliant on that Cogs, but you can deploy the Guardian of souls way out in the middle of no where out of unbind/dispel range, drop the cogs on the corner of the map somewhere, then use the general to teleport him back into the battle.

Unmodified chargeroll of 10 or 9 in the battalion

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On 7/10/2018 at 7:01 PM, Nevar said:

Basically Bladegeists will out preform Grimgasts, but the cost and army comp slots of Bladegeists might be enough to make the Grimgasts a better choice in your army list.

Grimghasts against 5+models units outperforms Bladeghasts by far. They also have access to a very nice bataillon which gives them +1 to hit/wound against your nemesis, which is i think something to heavily consider, even more in small size games.

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1 hour ago, kozokus said:

Grimghasts against 5+models units outperforms Bladeghasts by far. They also have access to a very nice bataillon which gives them +1 to hit/wound against your nemesis, which is i think something to heavily consider, even more in small size games.

Sorry but that battalion requires you to take x2 units of Glaivewraiths, and a Cairn Wraith.  This makes Grimgasts hit on 3+, wound on 2+ only against a single enemy target.  They also have 2 attacks.

Bladegeists hit on 3+ naturally, wound on 3+ naturally, and if you put a Spirit Torment or Chaingast unit nearby they reroll -all- attacks against -all- targets.  They also have 3 attacks naturally on the charge.

Unlike that Death Stalkers battalion, which costs you 300 points of 'tax' to get the 3+, 2+, and only against one enemy unit, Bladegeists cost you 220 in support models to offer 3+ hits, 2+ wounds, rerolling all attacks, AND you get a Guardian of Souls to follow them around, plus the ranged attacks of the Chaingasts.

So for 80 points cheaper, you have the exact same attack profile, a Guardian of Souls to help revive them, and Chaingasts to shoot with or expand a Spirit Torment's buff bubble.

The difference is all in number of attacks you can roll.  Two squads of 20, one Blades, one Grims for this thought experiment.  In one situation we will make it worse case scenario for Bladegeists.  They only can get 10 into range to swing after the charge.  That is 30 attacks, hitting on 3's rerolling, wounding on 2's, -1 rend, 1 damage.  Grims get all 20 in range thanks to 2" reach.  That is 40 attacks, hitting on 3's rerolling, wounding on 2's, -1 rend, 1 damage.  Keep in mind... you are paying 80 extra points in other units, filling a hero slot with a Cairn Wraith, etc. for 10 additional attacks.  Not shabby, but that was assuming we could only get 10 Bladegeists in.  Assume you can get 15 of the 20 Bladegeists in... that is 45 attacks.  Now you are paying 80 more points for 5 less attacks.  If the best case scenario happens for the Blades... you get 60 attacks at the same profile as your battalion Grims.  80 points more for 20 less attacks, no included GoS or Chaingasts, but more importantly... you do not get the ability to fall back and charge again.  All of this vague number crunching is only directly comparing offensive capabilities, and it is assuming we have the Grimgasts in a Battalion that buffs their to hits and wounds.  The Bladegeists in my example is just their profile with two other units that you want to in your army anyways hanging out nearby.  This doesn't take into account mobility differences.  This doesn't compare them alone against each other.

Grimgasts are awesome, but I don't know how you can claim they out perform Bladegeists 'by far'.  Even in their best case, they might out perform them by a hair, and only if you don't take mobility into account.

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2 hours ago, GeneralZero said:

Well well well...my turn to build a list. I'm planing to be fast and hit hard. This is a hero and elite heavy list.

bataillon death riders 130 1 130
hex 160 2 320
hex  160 2 320
Dreadblade harrow 100 1 100
Black coach 280 1 280
       
       
guardian of soul 140 1 140
reikenor 180 1 180
       
lady olynder 240 1 240
spirit hosts 120 2 240

50 points left for CP or magic/Endless spell (which one?)

the bataillon is for fast attacking the ennemies around the  map. It'll be helped by the wizard reikonor. The dreadblade harrow can also teleport around if needed.

Guardian and lady with their personal bodyguards, the spirirts host, are here to hit hard and cast spells.

Maybe the guardian of soul go with hex on demand....it'll depend...

I already have the 20 hex, spirit host and the starter set. The harrow/lady/reiko will arrive this week-end . So, I just have to wait for the BC. I'll play with a mortis engine  as a BC.

 

What do you think? (and yes, we are far from a horde...)

I think it'll be very hard to make Deathriders + Olynder work, because you have to stretch your two principle mechanics too thin (resurrecting spirit hosts vs) being generally crazy fast and slippery. Also, you have zero anti-horde mechanic there.
My deathrider wishlist looks like this:

Heros
- Reikenor the Grimhailer 180
    - Spirit Drain
- Knight of Shroud on Steed 140
    - General
    - Ruler of the Spirit Host
- Guardian of Souls 140
    - Shademist
    - Lantern of Nagashizzar
- Dreadblade Harrow 100
    - Midnight Tome
    - Soul Cage

Battleline
- 30 Grimghast Reapers 360
- 10 Hexwraiths 320
- 10 Hexwraiths 320

Others
- Black Coach 280

Battalion
- Deathriders 130

Endless Spells
- Prismatic Palisade 30


Total: 2000 points
Wounds: 105

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6 hours ago, Nevar said:

Sorry but that battalion requires you to take x2 units of Glaivewraiths, and a Cairn Wraith.  This makes Grimgasts hit on 3+, wound on 2+ only against a single enemy target.  They also have 2 attacks.

Bladegeists hit on 3+ naturally, wound on 3+ naturally, and if you put a Spirit Torment or Chaingast unit nearby they reroll -all- attacks against -all- targets.  They also have 3 attacks naturally on the charge.

Unlike that Death Stalkers battalion, which costs you 300 points of 'tax' to get the 3+, 2+, and only against one enemy unit, Bladegeists cost you 220 in support models to offer 3+ hits, 2+ wounds, rerolling all attacks, AND you get a Guardian of Souls to follow them around, plus the ranged attacks of the Chaingasts.

So for 80 points cheaper, you have the exact same attack profile, a Guardian of Souls to help revive them, and Chaingasts to shoot with or expand a Spirit Torment's buff bubble.

The difference is all in number of attacks you can roll.  Two squads of 20, one Blades, one Grims for this thought experiment.  In one situation we will make it worse case scenario for Bladegeists.  They only can get 10 into range to swing after the charge.  That is 30 attacks, hitting on 3's rerolling, wounding on 2's, -1 rend, 1 damage.  Grims get all 20 in range thanks to 2" reach.  That is 40 attacks, hitting on 3's rerolling, wounding on 2's, -1 rend, 1 damage.  Keep in mind... you are paying 80 extra points in other units, filling a hero slot with a Cairn Wraith, etc. for 10 additional attacks.  Not shabby, but that was assuming we could only get 10 Bladegeists in.  Assume you can get 15 of the 20 Bladegeists in... that is 45 attacks.  Now you are paying 80 more points for 5 less attacks.  If the best case scenario happens for the Blades... you get 60 attacks at the same profile as your battalion Grims.  80 points more for 20 less attacks, no included GoS or Chaingasts, but more importantly... you do not get the ability to fall back and charge again.  All of this vague number crunching is only directly comparing offensive capabilities, and it is assuming we have the Grimgasts in a Battalion that buffs their to hits and wounds.  The Bladegeists in my example is just their profile with two other units that you want to in your army anyways hanging out nearby.  This doesn't take into account mobility differences.  This doesn't compare them alone against each other.

Grimgasts are awesome, but I don't know how you can claim they out perform Bladegeists 'by far'.  Even in their best case, they might out perform them by a hair, and only if you don't take mobility into account.

You are mixing up the battallions, bladegheists only ho in shroudguard with either kosoes or Reikenor, and get an improved 5+ "deathless minions". That means they could get the +1a buff though. Much stronger than the one with grimghasts. 

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25 minutes ago, KoalaSnok said:

You are mixing up the battallions, bladegheists only ho in shroudguard with either kosoes or Reikenor, and get an improved 5+ "deathless minions". That means they could get the +1a buff though. Much stronger than the one with grimghasts. 

He wasn't putting the bladegheist in battalions. Just comparing what you can get compared to the grimghast battalion, without using a battalion.

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