Destruction FW changes

[Imperial]

Squig Gobba 160 Artillery

Bonegrinder Gargant 400 Behemoth

Colossal Squig 300 Behemoth

Rogue Idol 400 Behemoth

Troggoth Hag 380 Behemoth

[RuneBrush]

Just looking through the new Monstrous Arcanum and looks like we've some changes to warscrolls.  This originally started off as just a summary of changes for the Rogue Idol...

Basilisk

Move is now only 10" down from 12" but only depreciates to 6" (rather than 4")

The Malignant Gaze range weapon has changed to be Acidic Spittle, 1 attack, 5+/* with -1 rend and 1 damage.  Wound roll is 2+ depreciating to 6+.

Vitriol Taint has been dropped entirely and a Corrosive Miasma ability added which sort of does the same thing, but better.  Any until with 3" suffers a mortal wound on a 2+.

Malignant Gaze is now a hero phase ability, where you stare at a unit within 12".  On a 1 nothing happens, 2-3 they suffer D3 mortal wounds and 4+ it's D3+1.  Bit different to the original ability but I feel more useful.

This has dropped 120 points in total!

Bonegrinder Gargant

Not too many changes to this one.  Thunderous Stomp is now only 1" range.  The Gargantuan Club drops to D3 attacks at the top damage level.

I'll Bite Your Head Off has been simplified and slays a model on a D6 roll of 6 within 3".  Eligible models must have a wounds characteristic of 4 or less rather than not being a monster.  Note you can still pick the model to be slain so that could be brutal with the new Battleshock coherency rule.

Timber now only applies when the model dies and does only D3 mortal wounds to units within 3".

It's gained Jump Up and Down, where you can do D6 mortal wounds to unit within 1" if you roll a D6 equal to or less than the number of models in the unit.

A 20 point reduction

Colossal Squig

A few interesting changes to this warscroll.  Firstly it's gained an 8" Puff Spores missile attack, 1 attack 5+/5+ and D3 damage.

Enormous Jaws hasn't changed, but Trampling feet now has a non-random number of attacks, depreciating from 10 to 2.  It's to hit is now 5+ from 4+, but it has gained -1 rend.

Ability wise, everything has changed!

Avalanche of Hungry Squig has gone and been replaced with Crazed Charge.  You roll a D6 for each model within 1" after a charge and for each unmodified 6 they suffer a mortal wound.

Gushing Offal has gone and been replaced by Fungoid Squid Explosion.  Roll a dice for each enemy unit within 3" and on a 2+ they suffer D3 mortal wounds - additionally you can set up a unit of up to 5 Cave Squigs within 9" (more than 3" from the enemy).  I love this

Dinner's Dinner! has simply gone - no random munching on friendly units.

Puff Spores is a new ability that grants a -1 to hit for melee attacks that target the squig.

Finally Swallowed Whole has changed so that it triggers on an unmodified to hit roll of 6.

Points remain unchanged

Dread Maw

Another nicely changed warscroll!  This monster has gained a 12" missile attack in Slime Spray, 1 attack 4+/3+, -2 rend and D6 damage.

Writhing coils now does between 3D6 and 1 attacks depending on wounds suffered.

As with the Colossal Squig we've a completely changed set of abilities

It Came from Below has gone and been replaced with Devourer from Below.  This allows it to be set up in reserve and appear at the end of the second movement phase more than 9" from enemy units.  Much cleaner and much more useful.

Reptile-worm has gone and been replaced with Tunnel Worm.  This is the standard "move across terrain like it can fly", which makes more sense.

Yawning Doom has gone and been replaced with Yawning Maw.  This grants re-roll wounds if the target has a wounds characteristic of 2 or more.

Rock & Scale has gone and been replaced with Impenetrable Hide.  This is a 4++ mortal wound ignore rather than the old ignore damage on a 4++.

Points for this has gone up by 20, which means it still lives above the allies threshold

Fimir Warrior

Although not a monster, I'll include this.  Fimir have lost the Hand Weapon option (I don't think you can get a model for it yet anyway).

Baleglyph Mauls now inflict 1 mortal wound in addition if the wound roll is an unmodified 6.

Unnatural Flesh has been toned down and simply heals 1 wound each hero phase rather than a complete restoration to full wounds.

Unit of 3 has gone up by 20 points.

Incarnate Elemental of Beasts

Another warscroll that's gained a ranged attack (though this one was previously a shooting phase ability)!  Amber Breath is 12", D6 attacks, 5+, 3+, -2 rend and D3 damage.  Savage Talons has gone to 12 attacks depreciating to 4 and gone up to -2 rend.  Conversely Impaling Horns has dropped to -1 rend but gone up to 2" range to match.

Death Frenzy has gone and been replaced by Savage Frenzy, as before this allows it to pile in and attack once slain - unlike before this is in any phase.

Howl of the Great Beast has been changed to be a static -1 to bravery rather than -2 in the battleshock phase.

The Lore of Spilt Blood has been simplified to re-roll charges whilst within 12" of an enemy unit that has wounds allocated to it.  It's a much cleaner way of doing this.

Incarnate of Ghur has been given a nice boost and if the battle is taking part in Ghur, the model gains D3 wounds each hero phase and re-roll wound rolls of 1.

No points change

Incarnate Elemental of Fire

Not too many changes here, Firey Bolts doesn't have a random number of attacks and depreciates from 10 to 2 and Tendrils of Fire is now 6 attacks rather than D6.  Burning Lance also does 2 damage rather than D3.

Ashes to Ashes now does double damage on an unmodified hit roll of 6.

Gift of Elemental Fire has been changed to only effect enemy units on a D6 roll of 2+

As with the other Incarnate Elemental, Incarnate of Aqshy now heals D3 wounds and allows re-rolling wound rolls of 1 when fighting in the correct realm

No points change from the looks of it

Magma Dragon

The Brimstone Dragonfire ability has been tweaked to appear as a missile weapon, though as with the Thundertusk it doesn't have a to-hit roll and just does D6 or 2D6 mortal wounds on a 2+.

Burning Blood has been tweaked and is actually a lot more brutal.  For each wound inflicted, roll a dice, on a 4+ 1 mortal wound is passed back onto the attacking unit, on a 6 it becomes D3.  This has the chance to pump out a lot more damage in each turn.

Finally Primal Flame has been removed.

A 40 point rise for this warscroll, again keeping it well above that critical 400 point mark (by quite some margin)

Rogue Idol

Damage table has completely changed, move and stomping feet attacks are no longer random and depreciate from 10.  Boulder fists drops to a 5+ to wound at the highest level.

We've lost the half mortal wound option, but gained a 4++ against mortal wounds instead.

Livin' Idol has received the biggest change, the +1 cast has reduced to 6" and the +1 bravery buff is now wholly within but at 18".  Most critically we've lost the -1 bravery when he dies entirely.

Spirit of the Waaagh! has lost the no retreat clause, but is now only re-roll hits of 1 if it charges (rather than all) - but it's for all attacks, not just the Bolder Fists

Thankfully no points changes

Troggoth Hag

Thanks to @Kessler for spotting this.  The hag has dropped in wounds from 16 to 14.

A 20 point increase for her too

Merwrym

A lot of changes on this warscroll.

The  Chill Breath no longer has a damage table value and is now a 4+ / 3+ (previously 3+ / *).  The random attribute has instead gone onto the Powerful Tail that has dropped from D6, 1 damage attacks to 1 attack, with a depreciating 6 damage.

The wound roll for Hideous Jaws has also dropped from 2+ to 3+.  The ability on this attack has also changed and is on an unmodified wound roll of 6 and does D6 damage rather than 3 mortal wounds.

Voracious Hunger has changed over to Unnatural Metabolism and heals D3 wounds if any enemy models were slain (rather than just wounds inflicted).

Stench of the Deep now just applies a -1 to hit for melee attacks.

Finally Sea Beast has been dropped entirely.

Points have dropped by 40 however.

Squig Gobba

A few nice changes to this one!  Firstly it's gone up to 8 wounds from 5.

The Spit-squigs has gone from 2D6 attacks to a straight 6 - but increased in range to 30" from 18", it's also gained +1 to hit if the target unit has 10 or more models.

Spittin' Beast has been dropped entirely (which used to give it +1 to hit if it didn't move)

Points for this appear to have gone up by 100.  Not sure if this is intentional or not, though it feels about right when you compare it to other artillery pieces.

[Kessler]

1 hour ago, RuneBrush said:

Troggoth Hag

She doesn't appear to have changed other than tidying up the wording.

No changes means no points change too!

 

Actually she lost 2 wounds from Wound characteristic and went up 20 points. 

[RuneBrush]

2 minutes ago, Kessler said:

Actually she lost 2 wounds from Wound characteristic and went up 20 points. 

Cheers - missed that somehow! (will update)

[Malakree]

1 hour ago, RuneBrush said:

Points for this appear to have gone up by 100.  Not sure if this is intentional or not, though it feels about right when you compare it to other artillery pieces.

It's 160 now, no way it was 60 before. The 30" range is a huge buff but the lack of rend still hurts it.

On the same note the bassalisk now looks like an amazing addition to any destruction army. At 160 points it dumps mortal wounds everywhere and has 10 wounds. The fact the gaze isn't a shooting weapon is really nice aswell since it means you can shoot it out of combat at key support heroes.

The basilisks attack profiles may look mediocre but it's 160 points! Imo this is now the go to cheap monster over the giant. Absolutely fantastic. Only downside is I don't think it can be allied in?

Colossal squid now feels like a ggod piece with a solid warscroll.

Troggoth hag remains the beast she always has been.

Rogue idol now looks like an interesting monster rather than an expensive support piece.

Bonegrinder got way better now it doesn't just randomly fail to charge. Also funny when you realise his throw boulder is a grot rock lobber attack.

Lastly I think the fimir are a cool choice now with both mortal wound output and the -2 rend. The noble especially has a beastly attack profile and is at -2 against missile weapons with lookout sir.

The other monster all seem cool but none jumped out at me. Being unable to summon the incarnates is sad but probably balanced.

Big winners here were chaos.

[PlasticCraic]

In addition to the above:

Troggoth Hag melee weapon has been tweaked too (crushing bulk) - now D6 damage (up from D3) but lost the rend 

Fimir also lost their command (including an extra attack from the leader), were slowed down further by having their movement characteristic reduced, and had their bravery reduced. Also the slim chance of a mortal wound is offset somewhat by losing the slim chance of double damage.

I liked the Basilisk at 160 until I remembered the Jabberslythe was 150!

Very sad that the Dread Maw had its 4+ everything save heavily nerfed, that was kinda the whole point.

Awesome to see the new Rogue Idol warscroll, that and the Colossal Squig look great in my opinion! 

[PlasticCraic]

Also fimir had their battleline if status removed at the same time they finally got a warscroll for their leader  

[PlasticCraic]

And one more for ya - the big Gargant can now pile in from 6" away, so it can run / retreat and still get into combat striking first ?

[Thostos]

Digging through kit storage area looking for that big squig thing?

[kenshin620]

While I dont agree with the cost hike, I do understand the Hag wound nerf. She had a bizarrely large amount of wounds, more than your average greater daemon!

[Malakree]

46 minutes ago, kenshin620 said:

While I dont agree with the cost hike, I do understand the Hag wound nerf. She had a bizarrely large amount of wounds, more than your average greater daemon!

To be fair that's pretty characteristic of trolls/troggoths, the only demons which should be comparable are the nurgle ones.

Given that the GUO is at 16 for similar points her wounds are reasonable.

The other greater demons should have less wounds than her but excel in their own areas, no-one is going to argue that her attack tables are close to a bloodthirster for example.

Edit: There is also a really important rules point which makes her unique spell fantastic.

From the rules far.

Q: Some abilities allow me to re-roll a successful (or unsuccessful) roll. When this is the case, is the success or failure based on the roll before or after any modifiers are applied?
A: Re-rolls happen before any modifiers are applied, so the success or failure will always be based on the unmodified roll. Note that, when an ability says you can re-roll a failed roll, you may want to consider the effect that modifiers may have before deciding to re-roll the dice. For example, if a roll succeeds on a 4+ and you have a +1 modifier, you probably don’t want to re-roll  ‘failed’ rolls of 3, because they will become successful after the modifier is applied!

The reason this is so important is that it means if a unit has "reroll failed saves" on a 4+ *cough* fyreslayers *cough* then they can only reroll UNMODIFIED rolls of a 1, 2 or 3. If you their saves are at -1 from the hags spell or -2 from the spell+rend then a roll of a 4 is a fail but can't be rerolled.

Add in how much harder it is, for everyone but stormcast, to get +save and suddenly her spell helps us get round some of the most agregeous models without resorting to mortal wounds.

Equally the 30" unbinding is fantastic for her spellspite and the reduced power of mystic shield just further improves her ability to use her signature spell.

This equally applies to the -1 to hit. As an example a unit of brutes would be hitting on 4+ but only rerolling 1/2s which is a massive reduction in power.

Overall though she might have been nerfed I think the changes around her mean she was actually BUFFED.

[gnaleinad]

I think everyone is missing an important point.

The Squig Gobba can charge now. 

It has a pretty good combat stats even though it's really meant for shooting, 6 shots with 3+ To hit and wound at large unit is really good!!

[Shearl]

Fimir warriors lost their ability to take banners and musicians. 

I'm happy the noble has been made into a hero and not just a unit champion, but I wish he made the warriors battleline.

@RuneBrush If you run into anyone from Forge World at an event, please mention that a man in Rhode Island needs some new Fimir.

 

[Gemzo]

I love the idea of adding some monsters to a Beastclaw army, to continue with the beastly theme.  But these would only be allowed in a mixed Destruction list, right?

[gnaleinad]

3 minutes ago, Gemzo said:

I love the idea of adding some monsters to a Beastclaw army, to continue with the beastly theme.  But these would only be allowed in a mixed Destruction list, right?

Sadly it will break the allegiance bonuses. Mix destruction only for now.

[Gemzo]

1 minute ago, gnaleinad said:

Sadly it will break the allegiance bonuses. Mix destruction only for now.

That may be the road I go.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like the BCR allegiance bonuses aren't that spectacular.   A Beast Hammer battalion, plus some frost sabers, plus monsters for maximum beasty-ness would be fun.  

 

[gnaleinad]

Destruction is lacking battalions!!! 

Even the Chaos Dwarfs are getting their battalions?!?

The Moonclan, Gitmob, Greenskinz, Gutbusters and Spiderfang feel no love..

No love at all GW!

[Malakree]

6 minutes ago, Gemzo said:

That may be the road I go.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like the BCR allegiance bonuses aren't that spectacular.   A Beast Hammer battalion, plus some frost sabers, plus monsters for maximum beasty-ness would be fun.  

 

Depends on the new destruction stuff etc. 

You can take the Troggoth Hag though as troggoths are potential allies for all destruction factions.

[Backbreaker]

Nice update ! I just wish we could play a mammoth... ?

[Skumbaagh]

Squig gobba was 120 or 140 points before so the increase wasn't that bad. 

[Skabnoze]

2 hours ago, gnaleinad said:

The Moonclan, Gitmob, Greenskinz, Gutbusters and Spiderfang feel no love..

All of the Moonclan Forgeworld monsters just got better across the board.  That seems like some love to me...

I'll take what I can get.

[Skabnoze]

I could be wrong, but the Bonegrinder did not seem to previously have the Aleguzzler keyword and now he does.  That seems like a pretty big boost to me since I think it implies that he could now be chosen as an Ally.  He is now also 400 points.

I love me some giants - so it looks like now is the time to start spit-balling a Bonegrinder conversion (not overly fond of the FW model).

[Skabnoze]

I think the Troll Hag's warscroll damage profile is hilarious.  The last row is for 14+ wounds suffered, but she only has 14 wounds total now.  So that entire row is utterly meaningless since she would be dead.

On the whole, I still like her despite losing 2 wounds and -1 rend from her bulk.  The 2 wounds don't seem like that big a deal to me since she still has a ton of regeneration.  The rest of her abilities are effectively the same, but with the core rules increase to unbinding range her spell-spite ability is a whole lot nastier I think.  I am ok with that trade-off.

[michu]

High warden warscroll Has the same thing with wound table. I think it's made for situations where model get additional wound thanks to command trait or artefact.

[Skabnoze]

5 minutes ago, michu said:

High warden warscroll Has the same thing with wound table. I think it's made for situations where model get additional wound thanks to command trait or artefact.