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3 hours ago, Mace108 said:

Wow that is amazing! 

I am impressed, have you been to any tournaments with that list? Have you had any trouble against lists that shoot or battle plans which require you to get lots of different objectives? 

I am worried that Phenix Guard will be costed higher once the new GHB comes out, I have not yet purchased 30 of them because of that and COVID-19...

My collection of a cities of sigmar army has been really slowed by COVID and I really don't think GW will open back up when they said they will. 

I haven't had the opportunity to play this in a tournament. I reckon it would do fairly well, though I can't say for sure. Due to Covid-19, I havent been able to test against many meta armies. 

 

I've won against heavy magic and shooty Saraphon lists, and I've won on Focal Points, shifting objectives, so don't see any issue with being spread out across the map.

 

2 hours ago, zilberfrid said:

Maybe Aether Wings would also work for chaff?

That's a great suggestion. Perhaps a Hurricane Raptor unit with a couple of birds could do really well too. Going to play around with a list that has birds, cheers! Only issue I've got is the 1/4 limit to SCE. Since I really enjoy the Knight Incantor in that list.

 

If anyone wants a game through Tabletop Simulator here in the corona times, you are welcome to hit me up :)

Edited by Rune

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25 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

My Warriors of the Hollow Sun are converted!

28B31E44-93AA-444B-99BD-7B134C75A58A.jpeg.008af2c6f990dba71b23a779e20bffff.jpeg80249C7C-F511-4CF0-B7C1-F9F166818370.jpeg.a4115eeb5b418b256a9c374979622953.jpeg

Those shields are bad-ass where did you order them? 

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1 hour ago, Kramer said:

Those shields are bad-ass where did you order them? 

Self-made via Shapeways. I am currently looking for a way to make them cheaper 🤔 maybe I‘ll test other materials (also the print turned out a bit rough).

 

Edited by JackStreicher

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4 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

My Warriors of the Hollow Sun are converted!

28B31E44-93AA-444B-99BD-7B134C75A58A.jpeg.008af2c6f990dba71b23a779e20bffff.jpeg80249C7C-F511-4CF0-B7C1-F9F166818370.jpeg.a4115eeb5b418b256a9c374979622953.jpeg

What are the base models used for those?  At a guess, I would say Karic Acolytes with different shields and some maybe some weapon swaps?  Also maybe some head swaps?

Lastly, what are these guys supposed to be?  Freeguild guard with sword+shield is what is popping into my head, but I'd be interested to know if you were planning them to be something else.

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51 minutes ago, readercolin said:

What are the base models used for those?  At a guess, I would say Karic Acolytes with different shields and some maybe some weapon swaps?  Also maybe some head swaps?

Lastly, what are these guys supposed to be?  Freeguild guard with sword+shield is what is popping into my head, but I'd be interested to know if you were planning them to be something else.

I am planning to use them mainly as Freeguild guard. Yet they’re nice Chaos Barbarians or kairic acolytes.

 

parts used:

Hellstrider Heads, Bloodreaver Heads, Dark Elf Spears (2), Tree Revant blades,  blades of Glade Guard (2), one Idoneth Sword, A Dark Rider Horn, Self-made Shields and as base Acolyte Bodies. 

the conversion is inspired by Duncan Rhodes‘ conversion which I saw on his Instagram.

 

Edited by JackStreicher
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Hi Everyone,

I'm hoping to pick up warhammer again after 7 years. I used to have a pretty good amount of fantasy and played a lot (2500pt dwarves, 1500pt orcs & goblins + some ogre kingdoms).

I've been reading up about AoS and it looks really fun, love the models.

I'm thinking 1000pts of Cities of Sigmar to start. Always wanted to get some empire and I like the large variety of units.

I've got a preliminary list and was wondering if I could get some feedback before I invest in buying things. Doesn't need to be super competitive but I'd like to be able to win my fair share of games if possible.

Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar
- City: Hammerhal

Leaders
Freeguild General (100)
- General
- Command Trait: Blood of the Twelve
- Artefact: The Twinstone

Battleline
20 x Freeguild Handgunners (200)
20 x Freeguild Crossbowmen (200)
3 x Demigryph Knights (180)
- Lance and Sword
10 x Liberators (200)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 2x Grandhammers
- City Role: Honoured Retinue (Must be 5-20 models)

Units
5 x Dark Riders (110)

Total: 990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 87

The idea is 2 big units of missile infantry to shoot with Hold The Line. Then 2 cav units: demigryphs w/lances for killing any tough cookies, then dark riders for objectives, harassing and weak enemies (plus the models are cool). All held together with the liberators plus my free guild general.

A couple questions:

1) At the moment I'm not sure between 20 crossbows and 20 handgunners or 2x20 crossbows. I like the idea of the 80 shot 3+ 2+ using the command ability. However not sure if it's a bit overkill / would leave me struggling against armoured units? Plus handgunners get the stand and shoot, how useful is this?

2) Other options for the liberators? I've been reading and although I like the models people seem to ****** on them in forums. I know sequitors/evocators seem better but I can't fit them in the points cost. I'd quite like having some 'elite' infantry to be able to hold the fort and centre everything. Greatswords seem a bit squishy in comparison, not sure yet.

3) No magic? I think the general is better overall for his Hold the Line ability and killing power. But wondering what people think. How big is magic in AoS?

Any other general advice for a AoS newby would be great.

Looking forward to painting up some models and getting engaged with the community!

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I think you may be hopping on too many legs there.

Gunners can work wonders, especially with a General with them and in groups of 10. Crossbowmen work well against very lightly armoured things, but dark riders and especially steam gyrocopters work even better.

Demis are murderous on the charge, but I am afraid they need a bit more mass and support to work well.

Cities has nice magic, but your list doesn't have it.

I have no opinions about Stormcast, I don't know them well, but do think Phoenix Guards are about the strongest unit Cities has, and using more bodies will be able to protect more of your units.

I'd go for something like the following:

General 100

10 Handgunners (retinue) 100

10 Handgunners 100

20 Freeguild Guard 160

This is your core. It stays in your area to have battleshock immunity. 460 points

Now we want a few other things, wizards, hammers and objective grabbers.

Wizards: Sisters of the Thorn, Hurricanum, Battlemage, Sorceress (battlemage on Griffin is trash, Luminarch and Sorceress on dragon not worth it at 1000 points), 

Hammers: Dark Riders, Pistoleers, Demigryphs, Gyrocopters. The gunners don't have enough range to be damage dealers everywhere, the crossbowmen will really miss their rend.

Objective grabbers: Dark Riders, Pistoleers, Sisters of the Thorn, Shadow Warriors. Gyros and demis have less bodies.

Special mention: Scourge Chariots: really nasty fast units with quite a sticker shock. I won't risk you calculating the real-world cost of these monsters, but a few sprinkles here and there.

A few options for the remaining 540 points:

 

Very mobile:

Sisters of the Thorn 130

Sisters of the Thorn 130

Dark Riders 110

Pistoleers 100

Gyrocopter 70

Two fast wizards, Pistoleers and Dark Riders as chargers and objective grabbers and the Gyrocopter deletes 1/3 of a lightly armoured group. You could do more Dark Riders and a Scourge Chariot, and you wouldn't be wrong.

 

Murdering light armour

3* Gyrocopters 180

Pistoleers 100

Hurricanum with battlemage 280 (with your shooters)

Quite a monetary expense, but I believe these will translate the best to any Cities list you may want.

 

Dark Elves:

Sorceress 90

Darkshards 100 (they'll get eaten by the Sorceress)

3* Scourge Chariots 150

5 Dark Riders

5 Dark Riders

 

 

10 Shadow Warriors 110

Battlemage 90

20 Dark Riders 360

The single group of Dark Riders is quite fearsome, and not ridiculously points expensive per model, they can charge, or be on an objective and shoot.

 

Start of the Battalion

General on Griffin 320

Demigryphs 180

Demigryphs 180

This means changing your core to 2* handgunners (200) and a Battlemage (90), or go all in, and replace that core with the rest of the battalion.

Edited by zilberfrid

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Thanks for such an indepth response. Lots of good options to think about.

Definitely going to sub out the liberators for 20 freeguild guard for the cheaper points and synergy I think.

Then maybe also cut the crossbows for more darkriders plus a battlemage with 50pt spare for an endless spell. So much variety with CoS.

Also not really thought amount monetary cost too much yet so thats definitely a concern haha.

 

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On 4/15/2020 at 12:51 AM, zilberfrid said:

I think you may be hopping on too many legs there.

Gunners can work wonders, especially with a General with them and in groups of 10. Crossbowmen work well against very lightly armoured things, but dark riders and especially steam gyrocopters work even better.

Demis are murderous on the charge, but I am afraid they need a bit more mass and support to work well.

Cities has nice magic, but your list doesn't have it.

I have no opinions about Stormcast, I don't know them well, but do think Phoenix Guards are about the strongest unit Cities has, and using more bodies will be able to protect more of your units.

I'd go for something like the following:

General 100

10 Handgunners (retinue) 100

10 Handgunners 100

20 Freeguild Guard 160

This is your core. It stays in your area to have battleshock immunity. 460 points

Now we want a few other things, wizards, hammers and objective grabbers.

Wizards: Sisters of the Thorn, Hurricanum, Battlemage, Sorceress (battlemage on Griffin is trash, Luminarch and Sorceress on dragon not worth it at 1000 points), 

Hammers: Dark Riders, Pistoleers, Demigryphs, Gyrocopters. The gunners don't have enough range to be damage dealers everywhere, the crossbowmen will really miss their rend.

Objective grabbers: Dark Riders, Pistoleers, Sisters of the Thorn, Shadow Warriors. Gyros and demis have less bodies.

Special mention: Scourge Chariots: really nasty fast units with quite a sticker shock. I won't risk you calculating the real-world cost of these monsters, but a few sprinkles here and there.

A few options for the remaining 540 points:

 

Very mobile:

Sisters of the Thorn 130

Sisters of the Thorn 130

Dark Riders 110

Pistoleers 100

Gyrocopter 70

Two fast wizards, Pistoleers and Dark Riders as chargers and objective grabbers and the Gyrocopter deletes 1/3 of a lightly armoured group. You could do more Dark Riders and a Scourge Chariot, and you wouldn't be wrong.

 

Murdering light armour

3* Gyrocopters 180

Pistoleers 100

Hurricanum with battlemage 280 (with your shooters)

Quite a monetary expense, but I believe these will translate the best to any Cities list you may want.

 

Dark Elves:

Sorceress 90

Darkshards 100 (they'll get eaten by the Sorceress)

3* Scourge Chariots 150

5 Dark Riders

5 Dark Riders

 

 

10 Shadow Warriors 110

Battlemage 90

20 Dark Riders 360

The single group of Dark Riders is quite fearsome, and not ridiculously points expensive per model, they can charge, or be on an objective and shoot.

 

Start of the Battalion

General on Griffin 320

Demigryphs 180

Demigryphs 180

This means changing your core to 2* handgunners (200) and a Battlemage (90), or go all in, and replace that core with the rest of the battalion.

Why do you say hand gunners are only good in groups of 10. I haven't played with them but was planning on getting a unit of 30 and using a soul scream bridge to move them directly where I want them. I was also looking at running a unit of 30 crossbows in the same army to hold my objective and have the range to deal damage while doing so. 

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2 hours ago, Mace108 said:

Why do you say hand gunners are only good in groups of 10. I haven't played with them but was planning on getting a unit of 30 and using a soul scream bridge to move them directly where I want them. I was also looking at running a unit of 30 crossbows in the same army to hold my objective and have the range to deal damage while doing so. 

They aren't only good in groups of 10. But they are probably best used there, since their longrifles are great, which they can get 3 off if you run 3 groups of 10.

Crossbows doesn't have the same leader bonus, and are much weaker when reduced to under 10, so it's best to run them in larger numbers.

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3 hours ago, Rune said:

They aren't only good in groups of 10. But they are probably best used there, since their longrifles are great, which they can get 3 off if you run 3 groups of 10.

Crossbows doesn't have the same leader bonus, and are much weaker when reduced to under 10, so it's best to run them in larger numbers.

Especially in Hammerhal, Hammerhal generates command points for every unit (with a banner, most units have banners).

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On 4/15/2020 at 10:24 PM, Rune said:

They aren't only good in groups of 10. But they are probably best used there, since their longrifles are great, which they can get 3 off if you run 3 groups of 10.

Everyone loves units of 10 for them, but I usually take a unit of 20.  I'd rather have the reliable shooting buff to the regular grunts, and a unit of 20 makes a reasonable General's Honor Guard, since they are usually hanging out in the same table space

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What’s the hot take for freeguild guard?

whats the best equipment for the job. Their role will probably screen and protect ranged units and objectives. I can think arguments for all three. 

but the main purpose is to incorporate all my old dwarf warriors. So front rank with dwarfs, humans (and maybe elves) striking over them. So another suggestion would be great as well.  

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31 minutes ago, Kramer said:

What’s the hot take for freeguild guard?

whats the best equipment for the job. Their role will probably screen and protect ranged units and objectives. I can think arguments for all three. 

but the main purpose is to incorporate all my old dwarf warriors. So front rank with dwarfs, humans (and maybe elves) striking over them. So another suggestion would be great as well.  

I'd say that sword shield works best for protection. The extra save is a big deal, if your damage output comes from ranged or spells.

25mm bases can easily attack two ranks deep, so the spears don't bring as much as it may seem. Their possible bonus vs charging units also gives only to hit, not wound, and it's pretty easy to get 2+ to hit already.

Halberds might make sense when you play in Tempest's Eye, if you can keep them all within 12 of the Aura of Glory caster. They get to a pretty good attack that way at 2/2+/3+/-1/1. This means they do want bigger blobs though, which means harder to get within the caster.

This is all theoretical though, I myself don't really play, just build and paint a bit.

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6 hours ago, Kramer said:

What’s the hot take for freeguild guard?

whats the best equipment for the job. Their role will probably screen and protect ranged units and objectives. I can think arguments for all three. 

but the main purpose is to incorporate all my old dwarf warriors. So front rank with dwarfs, humans (and maybe elves) striking over them. So another suggestion would be great as well.  

Hot take: Shields are the best general option.  Going from a 5+ save to a 4+ save drastically increases their survivability, and they can still fight in 2 ranks anyways.  No matter what you do, guard aren't going to be your damage dealers - they are going to be your screen, or a blob to sit on objectives.  This doesn't really matter though, because most of the cities damage comes from their ranged weapons, and having a durable screen is what those ranged damage dealers are looking for.

If you did want cheap damage dealers, halberds are an option.  Not a particularly great option, but an option.  You can get them to 2+/3+/-1 for their hit profile, however they are going to be consistently lacking compared to the various infantry damage dealers available to the cities.  For 160 points you get 21 attacks.  For 160 points, you can get greatswords that have a 4+ save instead of a 5+, AND they have a chance of dealing mortal wounds.  And greatswords are the most expensive of the damage options.  The only point at which halberds start getting decent compared to the other options is when you have Aura of Glory in Tempest Eye, 160 points for 41 attacks vs 160 points for 31 attacks.

Lastly, spears.  I seriously can't come up with a good use for these.  Yes, they can fight in 3 ranks, but their buff is +1 to hit units that charged.  But they already hit on a 2+ if there are 20+ of them.  But at what point do you want to run spears with a 5+ save vs swords with a 4+?  If they were actual damage dealers, it might be worth it.  But the guard exist to be a screen, at which point you are wondering why fighting in 3 ranks is going to be worth it.

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I’m an old Empire general from way back in 98,  when the Halfling Hot Pot and War Wagon were still kicking around and you could kill someone if you filled a sock with all the metal models and hit them with it. 
 

that said, I’m wondering if it’s possible and/or worthwhile to create a functional and fun pure Empire army with this codex and rule set. I’ve read CoS are best served as an amalgamation, but I really just want to recreate the ranks of brightly colored infantry, shining knights, smokey artillery pieces, and magic and mighty heroes leading them. 
 

will this army stand the test of time, or will it get blasted or charged off the table time and again until it makes its way to the bin (or eBay)? I may have to settle for waiting on the upcoming Old World Warhammer launch methinks. 

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4 hours ago, Paladin of Khorne said:

I’m an old Empire general from way back in 98,  when the Halfling Hot Pot and War Wagon were still kicking around and you could kill someone if you filled a sock with all the metal models and hit them with it. 
 

that said, I’m wondering if it’s possible and/or worthwhile to create a functional and fun pure Empire army with this codex and rule set. I’ve read CoS are best served as an amalgamation, but I really just want to recreate the ranks of brightly colored infantry, shining knights, smokey artillery pieces, and magic and mighty heroes leading them. 
 

will this army stand the test of time, or will it get blasted or charged off the table time and again until it makes its way to the bin (or eBay)? I may have to settle for waiting on the upcoming Old World Warhammer launch methinks. 

Depends - do you want a Freeguild army or do you want an Empire army?  Because the two are slightly different.

For freeguild only, you are probably best to go with a combined arms list that has a general on foot back with some handgunners, with some freeguild guard to screen, and then have an offensive force of a general on griffon + demigryph knights.  Probably works best in Hammerhall, but this list has a few weakness's, primarily in that they don't bring any magic to the table.

If you want an Empire army though, you get to bring in the Collegiate Arcane - aka, the wizards.  This is probably going to be a better army, because you can bring a hurricanum, as well as a few battlemages along, and more importantly - endless spells.  The biggest one is the Soulscream Bridge, which lets you jump your gunners/crossbows forwards to let you get the benefit of stand and shoot (both unit abilities and the buff from the freeguild general).  But you also get the hurricanum buff to help your units out when they aren't buffed by a general, or if you want them to be able to move and fight.

As for tournament lists, there have been one or two freeguild based lists, which use guard for screening and handgunners/wizards for damage that have done well (5-0 or 4-1), as well as lists built around Irondrakes or Sisters of the Watch.  However, all of the tournament lists have been built around either tempest eye (with the hawk eyed buff) or hallowheart with all the magic available.  Additionally, all the ones that I remember were running the soulscream bridge, even if they didn't rely solely on it.

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4 hours ago, Paladin of Khorne said:

I’m an old Empire general from way back in 98,  when the Halfling Hot Pot and War Wagon were still kicking around and you could kill someone if you filled a sock with all the metal models and hit them with it. 
 

that said, I’m wondering if it’s possible and/or worthwhile to create a functional and fun pure Empire army with this codex and rule set. I’ve read CoS are best served as an amalgamation, but I really just want to recreate the ranks of brightly colored infantry, shining knights, smokey artillery pieces, and magic and mighty heroes leading them. 
 

will this army stand the test of time, or will it get blasted or charged off the table time and again until it makes its way to the bin (or eBay)? I may have to settle for waiting on the upcoming Old World Warhammer launch methinks. 

Bad news is: Pure Empire probably won't be the most competitive thing ever.

Good news is: Everything else. It's still pretty competitive. Out of all the old factions Empire is probably the strongest to run solo. Its models encompass entirety of Freeguild and Collegiate arcane, plus better half of Ironweld Arsenal. That's a lot of units to choose from. Second: CoS is extremely counts-as friendly. All those old Empire units that don't have rules anymore? You can use them! And, as we seem to be talking Hot-pot era, there's *a lot* to choose from!

Just for some examples:

Empire archers / halflings? They're shadow warriors now.

Empire knights? Drakespawn knights. Not the best of our units, but it's there.

Horse archers? (yeah we're going old school here ;)) Dark riders.

War Wagon? Either one of the wizard wagons, or a scourgerunner, whatever you prefer.

Engineer? Cogmsith. obviously.

Teutogen guard if you're lucky enough to have those models? Hammerers. With ulric priest runesmith to join them.

Imperial ****** dwarfs, because it was a thing that existed? Do they carry guns, hammers, large axes or shields? Because they can be any duardin units there is, honestly.

So, yeah. With pure human-only warscroll, you'll manage. With some creative thinking, you get to use basically entire army list, have fun!

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13 hours ago, Paladin of Khorne said:

will this army stand the test of time, or will it get blasted or charged off the table time and again until it makes its way to the bin (or eBay)?

Yes it will. Lot of variation and playstyles available in cities of sigmar. Even if you limit yourself to the empire models. 

and with some clever proxying you get even more options. :) 

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I got a list in mind. Would love some feedback on it, Please tweak it if you think it can get better and would love to hear the best city to play it with. 

1x Hurricanum with mage 

1x Anointed (General) 

1x Freeguild General 

1x Battle mage 

 

30x Pheonix Guard 

30x Pheonix Guard 

20x Handgunners 

20x Handgunners 

 

10x Shadow Warriors 

1x Soulscream Bridge 

 

Basic ide is to teleport the 40 handgunners + General with bridge and delete something. Mass Guard to move up and hold objectives/kill stuff. 

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So points have been leaked that are relevant to the cities (source here: https://war-of-sigmar.herokuapp.com/bloggings/4654)

Most stormcast units have gone down by a few points (ex. liberators/sequitors by 10 points, judicators by 20 points, Incantor's by 20, Lord-Arcanum's by 10-20 points, various dracothian guard by a bit, etc).  Probably the most commonly used unit is Incantor's going down by 20.

Sylvaneth - no leaks yet.

Kharadron Overlords - The boats went down by 20-30 points each.

Cities:

Battlemages up by 20 to 110
Scourge Runner Chariots up by 20 to 80
Steam tanks down by 20 to 180
Steam Tank Commanders down by 20 to 230
Executioners down by 10 to 120/300
Black Guard down by 10 to 130
Greatswords down by 20 to 140/360
Warden King down by 10 to 100
Longbeards down by 10 to 100
Ironbreakers down by 20 to 110

Now, this has not been confirmed, so it is possible that these numbers are off (though at least the stormcast ones seem highly likely, as they are pictures from the book).  However, if we assume that these are correct, I think this leads to some interesting things.

First off, many armies will go up by a little bit due to battlemages going up.  Also, the people spamming Scourge Runner Chariots are probably going to be unhappy.  However, Ironbreakers start looking a lot better at 110 points, and getting an extra attack over longbeards giving a re-roll 1's to wound aura make them a bit more appealing.  Executioners and black guard going down also seem interesting.  Aside from battlemages going up for Hallowheart armies though, most of these units appear to be tweaks to underused units, and I'm not sure that any currently existing armies are going to be significantly affected by these changes.

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I would not put any faith in any of those points, it seems a wishlist from someone that doesn't know half the units.

* Formatting is weird, omitting words that I would expect in there, like battleline status.

* Most adjustments are 20-40 points, while earlier adjustments were most often 10.

* Battlemage going up makes no sense without a new warscroll. 10pts less than an incantor...

* Sorceress staying when battlemage goes up is weird.

* Flying Sorc and BM stay at points?

* Common Kharadron picks go down, while Skywardens and Brokk stay at cost, why?

* Warchanter stays at points when other Orruk casters others go up?

Counterpoint:

* What seems like an official answer format directly above the points

 

This is possibly an early draft, but I very much doubt that it has much value.

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@readercolin if accurate the Scourgerunner changes have serious implications for some Living City armies in addition to chariot spam lists. We may see some shift toward Gyrocopters/Gyrobombers.

I'm also not quite sure what to make of the rest of the changes. It's hard to evaluate Longbeards and Ironbreakers without understanding what's happening to the massive regiment costs. If Longbeards go down to 100/240 then they will be really defensively efficient with shields. But if they are going down to 100 flat and losing the MR discount then I'll be less excited. Shaves 10 points if you are using them solely to buff Irondrakes, I guess. Still wouldn't love Ironbreakers at that cost but they'd be pretty defensively efficient. If no MR bonus then they are just the same cost as they were before at all unit sizes, and I just don't really see a competitive reason to take them.

The elite infantry point changes don't make much sense to me at all. Greatswords were already likely the best of the offensive elite infantry options, and yet they are going down more than the worse Executioners? At 12 points per model greatswords are really quite impressive on offense and not that egregious defensively either. They still have the core problem of being a slow, offensively focused unit... but when they get stuck in they are going to do some serious work.

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