AoS 2 - Cities of Sigmar Discussion

[stus67]

Anyone know of any art or descriptions of Glymmsforge outside of Soul Wars? I know Glymmsmen wear mauve and black uniforms but that's basically it. It's what I plan on theming my army around, but while using tempest eye or hallowheart rules.

[XReN]

12 hours ago, Arkhanist said:

Have a look at the lists people at putting up, and see how many people are including any dispossessed who *aren't* old dwarf players trying to make use of the handful of units that are left. It's hardly any. It doesn't help that none of the batallions include dispossessed.

Okay, I'm new to the Cities, I haven't been an Empire or Elf or Dwarf player in FB or AoS and I'm goiong to include dorfs in my Greywater lists because they can do what I need them to do. 

Irondrakes - Second best missle unit in the book point for point when buffed with Runelord and standing still, the only one better are Sisters of the watch when buffed by nomad Prince and standing still whille having the same bravery and the best save across all missle infantry in the book. Not to mention that you can wreck the living hell out of any monster if use msu Drakes 

Ironbreakers - 3+ save infantry that can be buffed to 3 rending attacks - nowhere near being bad, they easily rival Sequitors and unlike Eternal Guard they can actually move whille being excelent in defence

Longbeards - a great buff unit, that is their purpose and they can do it well whille not being super expensive, 2nd complaint also works with Irondrake's superb shooting

Hammerers - they are right in the middle compared to all other "elite" infantry in the book and not easier to kill than other such units except Phoenix Guard.

I know that duardin got nerfed, but they are in a solid place in this book.

[gronnelg]

How are you guys finding Cities of Sigmar - Are they a decent army? What kind of list are good in particular?

[zilberfrid]

11 minutes ago, gronnelg said:

How are you guys finding Cities of Sigmar - Are they a decent army? What kind of list are good in particular?

I have not played yet, just building and painting, but other people have had quite a bit of success with Hallowheart, and mixed results with Greywater and Anvilgard (the latter not working as well as expected).

[Myrdin]

Irondrakes are pretty darn nice. To bad I dont have the proper thematic miniatures to field them.  Same with Gyrocopters with the steam gun. Need to figure out something for those to fit my Catpon-Niphay army

In regards to CoS > I havent have had the option to play them yet, for real life reasons, but from what I can see when I compare them to my BoC army, they are great. Have good internal sinergies with units like Hurricanum and Luminark giving army wide buffs, meaning any combination of units you choose can still benefit from those.

I do find the lack of variety in character type a bit annoying though. One would expect that a mounted version should not be an issue for our characters, especially since the miniatures did exist, and there is actual cavalry in the book. You might wanna use the heroes with the cavalry, and for that reason you would need mounts. Unfortunately it seems there was a lack of foresight in this regards, so while we do have plenty cav options. all of them lack the one attachable mounted hero > and no a gryf/dragon hero are not the same as a cheap dude on horse/deer/drakespawn who is there primarily for the buff and some add on dmg. Also Nomad Prince not having access to Bow is just weird.

The book really does shine though in the Army selection department. You can build your army in so many different combinations and variations of those combinations, that for people who like me, like to play each game with a slightly different list, there is plenty of replay ability (for the lack of better term) every time with a different setup.

Also as a BoC player, having this magnituted of ranged options is like..... Boooom... Mind Blown   as I mentioned in my older post, they got it all > MW shooting, Mass shooting, Rend shooting, D3 dmg shooting, Artillery (admittedly, lack of Cannons is weird).  Its a "make your choice" army.

 

As for basic units, the one I feel most drawn to seems to be the Halberd Freeguild Guard. 3x10/20 units, standing around our lines securing positions and slowly advancing forward. With Hurricanum, these 80pts units become low level elite infantry and with a Freeguild General on foot, they become proper elite infantry 2+/2+/-1/1, despite having just 1 attack. 

There is so  many nice units in the book, that both old and new players will find something they like.  Both look, role and performance wise my favorite units are these: Free guild Guard with halberds, Shadow Warriors, Scourgerunner Chariot, Wild Riders, Demigryf Knights

These are units I tend to use as the core of most of my lists and then fill in the rest. As you can see its rather interesting mish mash form all the subfactions.

And I think this is one of the most fun and also most appealing aspects of this book. The array of choices (sure there are some dissapointments as well but ) is huge, even if you dont include KO, SCE or Sylvaneth. The army has the potential for both fun and competitive scene games alike. 

And dont even get me started (coz this post would be even longer than it already is) on the HUGE + that is the hobby aspect of customizing, modeling, roleplaying etc your City! Make your own city, with its own unique theme (role and model wise, rule wise you still have to use one of the existing 6) and let your imagination run wild!

Edited October 23, 2019 by Myrdin

[Osiris]

So I’ve started CoS as my main Sigmar army, while it’s going to be a slow grow army I am trying to keep it purely Freeguild. 

 

Im planning on having 3*20 Halberdiers, 1*20 Crossbows, 2*20 Handgunners as a core. Beyond that no real clue yet beyond wanting Greatswords. Probably Hammerhal because lots of banners and would increasing Guard unit size help. Or switching to SnS on 1 or 2 units?

[Grendel]

Is anyone else not a bit disappointed by the lack of spread of cities throughout the Realms?

I'm assuming Wizards don't have to be from the same realm as their city?

[Bladedwind]

Going to be in a campaign game with a friend soon. It's an old grudge match of Dwarves vs Skaven, 1k game. He's bringing a swarm of clan rat, along with some Rat Ogres and possibly a Hellpit.

 

Here's the list and ny idea:

 

Greywater Fastness 

1 Warden King

1 Runelord 

20 Ironbreakers

20 Handgunners (Proxied with Thunderers to keep the army all dwarves)

10 Longbeards

3 Gyrocopters with Steam Guns.

 

My idea is to treat my Gyros like a shooting line and screen them as I advance, and use them to absolutely MELT his Clan Rats horde, and then use the other models as needed, with Handgunners focusing his heroes and monsters

Edited October 23, 2019 by Bladedwind
Small correction

[dekay]

12 minutes ago, Grendel said:

I'm assuming Wizards don't have to be from the same realm as their city?

Yeah wizards' realm isn't restricted by anything. Also, all endless spells are always empowered regardless of the relm, too (some people were getting confused by this ; )).

As for other realms - it is a bit of a shame, and we're all quietly hoping for Glymmsforge (Shyish) and Excelsis (Ghur) added at some point. Excelsis seems to be going towards being a major plot point in Gordrak's story, Ghur gains prominence in current plot with Beastgrave, too, so getting rules for Excelsis in future expansion or white dwarf article isn't out of question.

[The Golem]

6 minutes ago, dekay said:

Excelsis seems to be going towards being a major plot point in Gordrak's story, Ghur gains prominence in current plot with Beastgrave, too, so getting rules for Excelsis in future expansion or white dwarf article isn't out of question.

If Excelsis is getting rules in a White Dwarf, I hope they'll add a warscroll for Arika Zenthe and a tutorial on how to kitbash her.

Edited October 23, 2019 by The Golem

[Myrdin]

12 minutes ago, The Golem said:

If Excelsis is getting rules in a White Dwarf, I hope they'll add a warscroll for Arika Zenthe and a tutorial on how to kitbash her.

Looking just at the artwork thats not a hard to do project. Depending on ones funds and how much they want to invest, I think 3 kits used could be (though you might be able to do with just 2). 

the old HE Queens Guard model head, Far seer torso from Artel studios (the dynamic pose one), and weapons and bits from DE Corsairs should do the trick nicely. Hands can be easily cut and re positioned, covering the gap with a little greenstuff as you go.   

Yeah, it would be nice to get more Cities from other realms as well. (I`d love the KO > make your own Port, City builder. But I fear it would be either too weak, or to OP in regards to the combination of Trait, Artifacts and abilities.

[zilberfrid]

3 hours ago, Myrdin said:

There is so  many nice units in the book, that both old and new players will find something they like.  Both look, role and performance wise my favorite units are these: Free guild Guard with halberds, Shadow Warriors, Scourgerunner Chariot, Wild Riders, Demigryf Knights

These are units I tend to use as the core of most of my lists and then fill in the rest. As you can see its rather interesting mish mash form all the subfactions.

Have you thought of just giving the Freeguild Guard with halberds an extra attack?

Also, don't forget the Pistoleers and Dark Riders:

• Dark Riders are not that much more expensive per body than elite infantry when taken at 20 models, but are really fast, have a good missile attack, and have 2 wounds each (with 4+ save).
• Pistoleers deal a boatload of damage in Tempest's Eye, having the option of retreating, shooting, charging, shooting and then attacking.

Pistoleers are awesome sets, with 15 heads per 5 models and a boatload of extras, Dark Riders are not as nice per set, but Empire Knights can make good standin for them.

Edited October 23, 2019 by zilberfrid

[Myrdin]

2 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

Have you thought of just giving the Freeguild Guard with halberds an extra attack?

Also, don't forget the Pistoleers and Dark Riders:

• Dark Riders are not that much more expensive per body than elite infantry when taken at 20 models, but are really fast, have a good missile attack, and have 2 wounds each (with 4+ save).
• Pistoleers deal a boatload of damage in Tempest's Eye, having the option of retreating, shooting, charging, shooting and then attacking.

Its not about whats optimal or good. The units I listed are units I personally find appealing and fun one way or another and somehow always end up in my lists, even if I try not to include them  

 

[zilberfrid]

17 minutes ago, Myrdin said:

Its not about whats optimal or good. The units I listed are units I personally find appealing and fun one way or another and somehow always end up in my lists, even if I try not to include them  

Heh, I understand you. I have not yet made every unit for a single list, but have more models than what I need for any single list I have.

I am just in a cav building spree at the moment *puts another box of pistoleers in the shopping cart*.

[SwampHeart]

19 hours ago, Arkhanist said:

Have a look at the lists people at putting up, and see how many people are including any dispossessed who *aren't* old dwarf players trying to make use of the handful of units that are left. It's hardly any.

What are you even talking about? Irondrakes, Gyrocopters, Hammerers, and Longbeards (situational for their buff) are all being used in lists right now. 

[Gwydion]

So far as I can tell, Pistoliers are the only unit in the book that has the option to take a musician where the musician doesn't provide +1 to run and charge rolls. It only gives +1 to charge. This strikes me as odd and I'm wondering if it's a typo, though it didn't get addressed in the recent errata. What do you all think? Is there some reason this one unit would need to break the consistency on musician options for this army? Would an additional 1" on their run be too much?

[zilberfrid]

22 minutes ago, Gwydion said:

So far as I can tell, Pistoliers are the only unit in the book that has the option to take a musician where the musician doesn't provide +1 to run and charge rolls. It only gives +1 to charge. This strikes me as odd and I'm wondering if it's a typo, though it didn't get addressed in the recent errata. What do you all think? Is there some reason this one unit would need to break the consistency on musician options for this army? Would an additional 1" on their run be too much?

The Dark Riders have the same, but Outriders don't.

Curious, if the musician is somehow tailored per unit, how to explain the crossbow/handgun ones?

[Gwydion]

3 hours ago, zilberfrid said:

The Dark Riders have the same, but Outriders don't.

Curious, if the musician is somehow tailored per unit, how to explain the crossbow/handgun ones?

Huh. You're right. Looks like I missed them and Drakespawn Knights also having only the +1 charge on their musicians. And Phoenix Guard for infantry. Weird selection of guys to not have it. But I guess that makes it less likely to be a typo.

Edited October 24, 2019 by Gwydion

[stus67]

Anybody get any good games in yet with these guys? I'm still building up an army so I have't gotten the chance.  I haven't seen any tournaments with them in it either.

[Nicholunch]

Running a Tempest's Eye Duardin based list with a KO theme. I did a battle report with a friend that won the Nova GT this past year and his Slaanesh army. This was a few weeks ago and I was still warming up to the army but definitely learned a bit. I changed my list slightly for the tournament the next weekend. Added 10 more Arkanauts (40 total) and 1 Gyrocopter, taking out 10 drakes and dropping the emerald lifeswarm. Was the right move. Gotrek and shooting is great against the meta armies right now...but tough for board control as duardin usually are.

For the tournament: 3W, 2L
Game 1 - Major loss against SCE. They had A LOT of deep striking units. Their ballistas and evocators got in behind me and cleaned me out from behind. Lesson 1, always let the other play go first if I have the choice. Lesson 2, don't sacrifice getting deployed on from behind without proper defense. Lesson 3, focus fire. Kill the damn unit off the objective you want if you got the shots.

Game 2 - Major loss against Nurgle. Made me go first on starstrike, bridged to the middle-right half. Shot lots and lots of blight kings and his general. These seem to be the bane of my shooting existence. Played everything right...except focus firing the one unit off the objective. Finally learned by game 3!

Game 3 - Major win against Ironjawz. Made me go first on focal points. I bridged to the middle, killed his shaman and warchanter, almost killed both Mawkrushas turn 1. Turn 2, Gotrek finished off one Mawkrusha, shooting did the the one in. Player conceded. 

Game 4 - Major win against Gloomspite Troggoths. Made me go first on border war I think. The 4 objective version of knife in the heart. I didn't bridge, but ran up a little. Used CP and shot the skyhooks. Killed his troggoth hag first turn. He spent 2 turns running and charging. I survived the initial charge and killed all his trolls. Ran gotrek up the left, killed the other half of his trolls and bridged to the other corner with my runelord for the major on round 3. 

Game 5 - Minor win against Sylvaneth. He went first on relocating orbs. He took out all 40 Arks in turn 1 with Durthu. 0.0 ...I replied by taking Durthu and running gotrek up the middle to chase the orb. He held the middle, I positioned to bunker if the orb came back my way and it did on round 3. I made him go first, took the objective and got 3 points for the tie. Did more points than him for the minor.

Bridges were super versatile. Gotrek, although small model, has a big radius because noone wants to fight him. Great for objective bunkering.

 

[stus67]

@Nicholunch I was at Nova and met that guy. Pretty cool dude. Just really glad I didn't get matched against him lol

[Nicholunch]

14 minutes ago, stus67 said:

@Nicholunch I was at Nova and met that guy. Pretty cool dude. Just really glad I didn't get matched against him lol

Yeah, I'm glad I didn't face him at Crucible (orlando tournament) too! The Blades of Khorne guy, Chris, that I had on a previous batrep won the Crucible tournament. Beat Will! But they play a lot together so it's always a good matchup there.

[Sputnik]

Could someone please do me a favour and let me know what leaders and units are options in Path To Glory? I'm particularly interested to know if Sylvaneth  are an option for a Living City Path To Glory campaign. Thanks!

[soots]

On 10/23/2019 at 5:03 AM, tripchimeras said:

Thanks for putting in the leg work.  Super good stuff!  I think I would disagree with some of the conclusions you came to in your original post though.  Mainly on  Executioners I feel like they are worse then blackguard for only 10 pts less and fill the exact same role so why would you ever field them competitively?  I also think we all need to be careful when looking at the buffs.  Think Eternal Guard also are being overrated here..

For me I think elite infantry seems to be fitting into 3 tiers based on early observations and the mathhammer I have seen so far for competitive play, obviously very early goings but:

Phoenix Guard seem to be alone at the top tier and can basically function in any city or build without a lot of buff bubbles needed imo.  Hammerers, Greatswords, and Blackguard are tier 2, with being potentially the most efficient unit for a role but very much being  city/army dependent.  Then there is tier 3 which is basically everything else in the elite infantry mould (infantry that is not default battleline and over 100pts). 

What about eternal guard you may wonder?  The list of conditions needed to make them competent I think are just a bit too oppressive and restrictive to make them worth the price of Hammerers and on par with anything in the top 2 tiers, I just don't think there is a good enough reason to preference them in almost any situation that will appear regularly.  Remember that there purpose is not to charge, which means they represent a purely defensive role.  The opponent has no obligation to engage them if they can avoid it, or they will lose the singular bonus that puts them in the conversation.  Additionally their complete lack of rend hides a significantly weaker damage output then the stats first suggest.  Against a 4+ save opponent they do less damage standing still then every other elite unit I have mentioned above AND Executioners.   Defensively they are purely worse then phoenix guard, offensively they are worse then all the other elites against something with any armour, all of this for a unit that can't move so long as it wants to be effective.  Not great imo.

I still dont rate Phoenix guard efficiency wise. Sequitors are tougher most of the time. and output considerably more. 16pts is a killer.

I agree with restrictive roll of Eternal guard.  The big bonus to them is they get their bonus every turn except for the turn they charge. So they are great at securing objectives or anvilling infront of a gunline. This is important to us because our shooting is an anomoly and is far more efficient than our melee. I definitely wouldnt take them as our only elite, but they are one of the best units in the game at what they do

Blackguard vs executioners is arguable. I agree blackguard are indeed better. But at 30x Blackguard are still 14pts and executioners become 11pts.  The only difference to me is rend vs mortal wounds.. The melee advantage of blackguard is easily offset by the point cost imo.  You can get an extra 20x 3/4 attacks and bodies with a crossbow unit you can buy with the savings.

[mmimzie]

4 hours ago, soots said:

Blackguard vs executioners

damage is in the math. blackguard math batter so pt for pt your getting more out of the damage even against various armor values. So if you can fit the guard in they are better. Lastly the executioners NEED that discount to be worth the take i think, where as a smaller BG squad is a thing. That said i'd almost always take the full squad because of that 2" range.

 

 

4 hours ago, soots said:

I still dont rate Phoenix guard efficiency wise. Sequitors are tougher

This is sort of true,  again you come to that thing you said with executioners where it depends on what you can fit as both are betting on the discount for relevance. 

PG also get easy access to ignore battleshock and can always clap back as hard as they take where as sequitors in CoS can only either be tanky or defensive. 

Sequitors also do poorly in the slannesh match up and in any battleshock match up.  Also they don't have the same model count as PG.

So i think it all depends on your general, or if your taking a castelant if your going to take either, both are quite the investment. The pheonix being a ~300 pt investment or a 100pt annointed or losing 2 units of SCE.