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1 hour ago, WatcherintheWater said:

If you are just comparing damage output, and put in the Pistols & the Arkanaut ranged attack, they go up to .048, so basically 40% more damage/point than the Darkshards vs heroes & monsters (.037 vs non-hero/monsters). And the Arkanauts can take 28 wounds before you have to remove a single skyhook.

Darkshards have some other pluses though. They are faster, more maneuverable, and have +1 Bravery. Good point on using a mix of unit sizes, too.

And that the darl shards have a longer effective range. The pistols and such aren't the real draw its all the sky hooks as it's about killing the target you want to kill not the one you are barely in range to kill.

 

If i wanted to math all the ranged units damage id also add in all there melee damage too. 

 

Im also not saging the company are bad, but just better than darkshard as a blanket statement isnt true. 

 

The company gets better if you break a soul scream birdge or other buffs, and the company is better against stuff with a 3+ save or better. Also dark shards will likely have to move for every shooting they do.

Edited by mmimzie

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7 minutes ago, Marc Wilson said:

Do we know if there any Allies for CoS?

Yeah basicly all of order except seraphon, and gretwater fastness cant ally sylvaneth i think. 

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And now for durability

Everything is expressed points per wound to kill (after saves etc.). Higher numbers are therefore sturdier. Rend -1 would obviously be somewhere in the middle. 

image.png.53967221e6f0c6a8fee42dadc92300a7.png

Some Observations:

Standouts here ironically are the sequitors, and to a lesser extent, liberators. Here, I included the price of the castellant (and buying them as a group of 10) and they still easily blow everything else away. If you want a wall, you want sequitors. A Lord arcanum+Sequitors+Castellant in a hallowheart list seems like a great way to both augment and to hold your bunker. 

Killy infantry are predictably pretty fragile. The standout here being pheonix guard which were quite killy but also the top of the list for sturdiness. Ironbreakers also stand out as quite sturdy while also not doing terribly on the damage side of things as we saw earlier.

It is also trivial to get mystic shield off in some lists, which favors higher saves over lower ones. This would likely favor the longbeards and ironbreakers. Dwarves also have access to the only race-specific durability buff in the runelord 6++. 

 

Cavalry/Fast Movers

image.png.71b8a32f3fe9910b8c6f814c41088ef6.png

Note that for the most part, these are all more fragile than true tank units like bleakswords or pheonix guard such as above.

Demigryphs are very sturdy, and remembering that they had quite a punch, look relatively strong overall. Only limitation is their base size, which might make it hard to fit more than 3 into a fight. Maybe MSU. 

Interestingly, dark riders do quite well on this front. I'm really wondering if dark riders will find a home. They are gorgeous models. They have middle-of-the road stats across the board, and maybe add some cheap versatility to a list. I also wonder how they would be in an 'alpha bunker' style list. With 1 cp, in the living city, they can easily get up to form a line 3' away from an enemy. Park a phoenix behind them and throw every debuff on them for -1 to hit and -2 to wound. It would take an enemy most of their turn to chew threw, all the while you set up to score objectives, blast them with spells or set up fortresses of boughs.

Has anybody tried this 'alpha bunker' style list with other armies? I think grots can do it pretty well, vomitting 60 right in the enemies face on turn 1.  

 

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Thanks!

I was planning on a list where Dark Riders screen the Outriders, and Pistoleers charge softer targets.

Freeguild Guard do not do too bad, even the halberds (which are very killy for their points)

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1 hour ago, mmimzie said:

Also dark shards will likely have to move for every shooting they do.

Well they better do, as it's their main advantage over our other shooters. Nearly everything else we have gets some sort of bonus for standing still, while nothing stops darkshards from creeping toward objectives.

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Hi all,

Rather silly interactive quiz for anyone who can't decide which CoS allegiance to use that I've been fiddling around with as a means of procrastination today for your leisure.  May bump it up with some more questions down the line. Feedback as always very welcome. :)

https://doublemisfire.blogspot.com/2019/09/cant-decide-which-city-of-sigmar-to.html

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Also, if anyone's keen to join the currently flourishing Cities of Sigmar WhatsApp group, hit me up with a message and I'll send you the invite link. :D 

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8 hours ago, Frowny said:

And now for durability

Everything is expressed points per wound to kill (after saves etc.). Higher numbers are therefore sturdier. Rend -1 would obviously be somewhere in the middle. 

image.png.53967221e6f0c6a8fee42dadc92300a7.png

Some Observations:

Standouts here ironically are the sequitors, and to a lesser extent, liberators. Here, I included the price of the castellant (and buying them as a group of 10) and they still easily blow everything else away. If you want a wall, you want sequitors. A Lord arcanum+Sequitors+Castellant in a hallowheart list seems like a great way to both augment and to hold your bunker. 

Killy infantry are predictably pretty fragile. The standout here being pheonix guard which were quite killy but also the top of the list for sturdiness. Ironbreakers also stand out as quite sturdy while also not doing terribly on the damage side of things as we saw earlier.

It is also trivial to get mystic shield off in some lists, which favors higher saves over lower ones. This would likely favor the longbeards and ironbreakers. Dwarves also have access to the only race-specific durability buff in the runelord 6++. 

 

Cavalry/Fast Movers

image.png.71b8a32f3fe9910b8c6f814c41088ef6.png

Note that for the most part, these are all more fragile than true tank units like bleakswords or pheonix guard such as above.

Demigryphs are very sturdy, and remembering that they had quite a punch, look relatively strong overall. Only limitation is their base size, which might make it hard to fit more than 3 into a fight. Maybe MSU. 

Interestingly, dark riders do quite well on this front. I'm really wondering if dark riders will find a home. They are gorgeous models. They have middle-of-the road stats across the board, and maybe add some cheap versatility to a list. I also wonder how they would be in an 'alpha bunker' style list. With 1 cp, in the living city, they can easily get up to form a line 3' away from an enemy. Park a phoenix behind them and throw every debuff on them for -1 to hit and -2 to wound. It would take an enemy most of their turn to chew threw, all the while you set up to score objectives, blast them with spells or set up fortresses of boughs.

Has anybody tried this 'alpha bunker' style list with other armies? I think grots can do it pretty well, vomitting 60 right in the enemies face on turn 1.  

 

I tried it with my order allegiance duardin army when the Lord ordinater dropped.

It was more of a 2 army pincer strategy but depending on my opponents mobility and how much was already in combat, I'd shoot away all his squishy backline.

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@Frowny has already posted a lot of math, although his approach is a little different from mine. I've finished crunching the numbers on all of the melee stuff and will hopefully get around to posting it in the next couple of days.

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10 hours ago, Frowny said:

Demigryphs are very sturdy, and remembering that they had quite a punch, look relatively strong overall. Only limitation is their base size, which might make it hard to fit more than 3 into a fight. Maybe MSU. 

Makes sense to take MSU as well for the sake of hammerhal rules - more banners, more command pts

EDIT: More units w/ at least 1 banner.

Edited by The Merchant Prince

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43 minutes ago, The Merchant Prince said:

Makes sense to take MSU as well for the sake of hammerhal rules - more banners, more command pts

I'm unsure on the wording of Hammerhals rules, but large units can have several banners, so  you wouldn't necessarily get more command points from going MSU I think.

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2 minutes ago, Mikkl said:

I'm unsure on the wording of Hammerhals rules, but large units can have several banners, so  you wouldn't necessarily get more command points from going MSU I think.

The wording is not based on number of banners but rather number of units with at least one banner. So you can't take for e.g. 40 freeguild guard with 4 banners and be equivalent to 4 x 10 freeguild guard units, each with a banner. The latter has 4x the chance of benefiting.

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Just now, The Merchant Prince said:

The wording is not based on number of banners but rather number of units with at least one banner. So you can't take for e.g. 40 freeguild guard with 4 banners and be equivalent to 4 x 10 freeguild guard units, each with a banner. The latter has 4x the chance of benefiting.

I see, thanks for clarifying that for me.

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So based on known information, what is the way to go for mostly human non-gunline army? I would love something like multiple demigryph units, freeguild guards and a lot of magic support. Some self-sufficient shooting is possible but mostly for sniping, not carpet bombing.  Is Hammerhal the way to go? 

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1 minute ago, Trayanee said:

So based on known information, what is the way to go for mostly human non-gunline army? I would love something like multiple demigryph units, freeguild guards and a lot of magic support. Some self-sufficient shooting is possible but mostly for sniping, not carpet bombing.  Is Hammerhal the way to go? 

Hammerhal works, but Tempest's eye is also quite human central with a lot of pistoleers and outriders (guns, but not a gunline). Hallowheart gives lots of wizards, and will not need the guns ro do a lot of work.

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8 hours ago, Double Misfire said:

Hi all,

Rather silly interactive quiz for anyone who can't decide which CoS allegiance to use that I've been fiddling around with as a means of procrastination today for your leisure.  May bump it up with some more questions down the line. Feedback as always very welcome. :)

https://doublemisfire.blogspot.com/2019/09/cant-decide-which-city-of-sigmar-to.html

The test did turn out at a city I wanted to make. The fourth choice of cities, but still!

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42 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

The test did turn out at a city I wanted to make. The fourth choice of cities, but still!

Interesting...

What did you get?

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48 minutes ago, Double Misfire said:

Interesting...

What did you get?

Oh sorry! Hammerhal. It must have listened to the music I was listening, which was Hammerfall. I'm going to work towards Tempest's eye, Living City and Hallowheart first though.

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13 hours ago, Marc Wilson said:

Do we know if there any Allies for CoS?

Daughters of Khaine, Fyreslayers, Idoneth Deepkin, Kharadron Overlords (except Tempest's Eye), Sylvaneth (except Living City and Greywater Fastness)

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6 minutes ago, CrashQuest said:

Quick question;

Would anyone object to a High Warden being used as an Anointed on Phoenix?

This would be a better question to ask your opponent, or if you're at an event the event organisers.

The issue is the High Warden is still a model in it's own right (squatted but they still exist), so most people would say yeah go for it, but some might say no.

Also the base sizes are different.

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29 minutes ago, GM_Monkey said:

This would be a better question to ask your opponent, or if you're at an event the event organisers.

The issue is the High Warden is still a model in it's own right (squatted but they still exist), so most people would say yeah go for it, but some might say no.

Also the base sizes are different.

I have a spare 120mm oval base that I plan to transfer the High Warden to.  Really just looking for ways to proxie my IoB Aelves

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I can't see how that would be a problem. It is clearly a griffon type model. It can't be mistaken for anything else at all!

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2 minutes ago, Frowny said:

I can't see how that would be a problem. It is clearly a griffon type model. It can't be mistaken for anything else at all!

Expect he wants it to be a Phoenix

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