AoS 2 - Cities of Sigmar Discussion

[Rentar]

Quote

Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar
City of Origin: Anvilgard
Realm of Origin: Aqshy

Illicit Dealings Options - Extra Artefact, D3 Command Points

Heroes
Fleetmaster (60)
- General
- Command Trait: Blackfang Crimelord
- Retinue = Demigryph Knights
- Adjutant = Freeguild General

Freeguild General (100)

Freeguild General on Griffon (320)
- Artefact of Power: Asphyxia Censer

Celestial Hurricanum with Battlemage (280)
- Artefact of Power: Drakescale Cloak
- Lore of Anvilgard: Vitrioc Spray

Battlemage (Hysh) (90)
- Lore of Anvilgard: Shadow Daggers

Steam Tank with Commander (250)

Battleline
1 Kharibdyss (170)
- Acidic Blood
1 Kharibdyss (170)
- Felgaze
10 Black Ark Corsairs (80)
10 Black Ark Corsairs (80)

Units
10 Freeguild Greatswords (160)
6 Demigryph Knights (360)
- Retinue

2000/2000 Points
D3 Extra Command Points
2/2 Artefacts
127 Wounds

So a somewhat (very) different list to my earlier Phoenix list: On average, a healthy Kharibdyss gains around 1.8 (before saves) from a Fleetmaster's command ability. That's... including average saves etc. around 1.3. That's not really that great, which is why I abandoned my initial versions of this list.

However, what the Kharibdyss offer are a pair of big bodies that're excellent at holding flanks pretty independently. The idea is to have the Demigryphs and Griffon do most of the forward damage, and have the General on foot, the Fleetmaster, and the Greatswords catch up later, with the Kharibdyss holding flanks. The Mages and Corsairs can hold the rear. Honestly, the Corsairs can be swapped out for Freeguild Guard, but I figured that Corsairs work better for hanging back since they actually have a ranged attack. Any opinions?

Edited September 28, 2019 by Rentar

[Acid_Nine]

54 minutes ago, Rentar said:

So a somewhat (very) different list to my earlier Phoenix list: On average, a healthy Kharibdyss gains around 1.8 (before saves) from a Fleetmaster's command ability. That's... including average saves etc. around 1.3. That's not really that great, which is why I abandoned my initial versions of this list.

However, what the Kharibdyss offer are a pair of big bodies that're excellent at holding flanks pretty independently. The idea is to have the Demigryphs and Griffon do most of the forward damage, and have the General on foot, the Fleetmaster, and the Greatswords catch up later, with the Kharibdyss holding flanks. The Mages and Corsairs can hold the rear. Honestly, the Corsairs can be swapped out for Freeguild Guard, but I figured that Corsairs work better for hanging back since they actually have a ranged attack. Any opinions?

I like the list, but I kinda have my doubts on how good Kharibdyss  are. They dont seem too phenominal for how much they cost, and for their healing to work you need to do damage. maybe War Hydras should be used instead? they are still battle line, and they just automatically heal every turn regardless of doing damage. 

also, you can only chose one extra relic, curse or command points, not two unless I didnt see something that said otherwise. Also, why a steam tank commander? Why not use that to boost the numbers of each corsair squad to have more bodies?

[Rentar]

1 minute ago, Acid_Nine said:

I like the list, but I kinda have my doubts on how good Kharibdyss  are. They dont seem too phenominal for how much they cost, and for their healing to work you need to do damage. maybe War Hydras should be used instead? they are still battle line, and they just automatically heal every turn regardless of doing damage. 

also, you can only chose one extra relic, curse or command points, not two unless I didnt see something that said otherwise. Also, why a steam tank commander? Why not use that to boost the numbers of each corsair squad to have more bodies?

True, hydras heal once per turn unconditionally, but Kharibdyss heal each combat phase, which occur twice as often as your turns do. Also, the two deal almost identical amounts of damage with nearly identical profiles, except the hydra has one at range but doesn't have the bravery aura.

Two dealings because of the command trait. 

Steam tank for no real reason tbh. It's just cool. Could easily be subbed out for another model. Hell, you could drop it + a set of corsairs and grab a Frostheart Phoenix to toughen up the initial strike with another big monster that also produces a -1 wound bubble to protect your guys... Or maybe even drop both, swap the general to the Freeguild general and foot and the adjutant to the fleetmaster, and take a phoenix and cogs to help the slower elements of the  army speed up. Plenty of options. 

[Mandzak-Miniatures]

So let’s say your hero/ general is a human (or whatever) you unlock certain things as battle line. But do you still have access to something else that would be battle line, like a wanders unit? And if so what does it count towards?

[Acid_Nine]

42 minutes ago, Rentar said:

True, hydras heal once per turn unconditionally, but Kharibdyss heal each combat phase, which occur twice as often as your turns do. Also, the two deal almost identical amounts of damage with nearly identical profiles, except the hydra has one at range but doesn't have the bravery aura.

Two dealings because of the command trait. 

Steam tank for no real reason tbh. It's just cool. Could easily be subbed out for another model. Hell, you could drop it + a set of corsairs and grab a Frostheart Phoenix to toughen up the initial strike with another big monster that also produces a -1 wound bubble to protect your guys... Or maybe even drop both, swap the general to the Freeguild general and foot and the adjutant to the fleetmaster, and take a phoenix and cogs to help the slower elements of the  army speed up. Plenty of options. 

oh, good points on all. Carry on then! I like the idea of the frostheart, but I think I would personally keep it to the corsairs idea (because pirates me hearty!)

 

so here's my start of a majority elf hammerhall list without knowing the exact layout of relics traits and the like:

Heroes: 

General- Annointed on foot- 80

Annointed on Frostheart pheonix-320

Nomad Prince-120 (Adjutant )

Celestial Hurricanum with Celestial Battlemage-280

Battleline

Phoenix Guard (x30)- 420

Phoenix Guard (x20) -320

Darkshards (x10) -100

Darkshards (x10)-100

Other:

Sisters of the watch x20- 260

So general idea is a mix of a gunline and old style fantasy. pheonix guard goes forward with annointed and pheonix, while darkshards and Sisters of the watch stands by and pelts the enemy with arrows. Nomad prince is to buff the sisters of the watch with more shots, and hopefully I can get 50 shots out of them before they get horribly killed by the enemy.

 

[Thiagoma]

1 hour ago, Acid_Nine said:

oh, good points on all. Carry on then! I like the idea of the frostheart, but I think I would personally keep it to the corsairs idea (because pirates me hearty!)

 

so here's my start of a majority elf hammerhall list without knowing the exact layout of relics traits and the like:

Heroes: 

General- Annointed on foot- 80

Annointed on Frostheart pheonix-320

Nomad Prince-120 (Adjutant )

Celestial Hurricanum with Celestial Battlemage-280

Battleline

Phoenix Guard (x30)- 420

Phoenix Guard (x20) -320

Darkshards (x10) -100

Darkshards (x10)-100

Other:

Sisters of the watch x20- 260

So general idea is a mix of a gunline and old style fantasy. pheonix guard goes forward with annointed and pheonix, while darkshards and Sisters of the watch stands by and pelts the enemy with arrows. Nomad prince is to buff the sisters of the watch with more shots, and hopefully I can get 50 shots out of them before they get horribly killed by the enemy.

 

Some of your point values are wrong. Anointed now cost 100 and the Frosty is 300. The result will be the same in the end tho. Not sure about the other units costs.

[adreal]

Okay so coming up with a wanderers themed living city list

Nomad Prince: 120

-general: Druid of the Everspring: Lifesurge

Nomad Prince: 120

Sorceress: 90

-Cage of Thorns

Assassin: 80

-Spear of the Hunt

Annointed on Frostheart Pheonix: 320

10 Sisters of the Watch: 160

10 Sisters of the Watch: 160

10 Sisters of the Watch: 160

20 Eternal Guard: 260

5 Wild Riders: 130

5 Sisters of the Thorn: 130

10 Shadow Warriors: 110

10 Shadow Warriors: 110

Emerald Lifeswarm: 50

 

[Acid_Nine]

2 hours ago, Thiagoma said:

Some of your point values are wrong. Anointed now cost 100 and the Frosty is 300. The result will be the same in the end tho. Not sure about the other units costs.

I think I only got the anointed wrong based on what I saw points wise on page 52... no matter, I think i’ll Take one squad of black arc Corsair just to make up the 20 points. What do you think of the list though?

[Syrex]

21 minutes ago, Acid_Nine said:

I think I only got the anointed wrong based on what I saw points wise on page 52... no matter, I think i’ll Take one squad of black arc Corsair just to make up the 20 points. What do you think of the list though?

Your sisters of the watch are also off - 160 per 10 rather than 130.
Nomad prince gives them +1hit, not extra shots (Unsure if you were just referencing more hits though).

List looks solid but I'd be tempted to replace Nomad Prince + Sisters with something else - There are better shooting options, but obviously this doesn't help if you don't have alternative models.

[Carnith]

I like the sisters for their shooting. Once they get set up, they can just let loose shots to hammer opponents. Though they fall short on mobility. I like dark shards for their weight of shots and mobility. Shadow warriors for being able to deploy right into cover and get shots at a 2/3/-1/1 profile is really good. 

[Thiagoma]

2 hours ago, Acid_Nine said:

I think I only got the anointed wrong based on what I saw points wise on page 52... no matter, I think i’ll Take one squad of black arc Corsair just to make up the 20 points. What do you think of the list though?

I am not sure, but one thing that i noticed is that Phoenix Guard works best in groups of 20 (in case of a push foward) groups of 10 are great to hold objectives.

[Izotzuhure]

I've been going through the GMG video and I have a question about Hallowheart CA. Could you pass those mortal wounds to your retinue? Let's say a Phoenix Guard unit so they could try to save those MW. And then, the ones you didn't pass, you could save them on a 4+ with the Aqshy item, right? 

[Malakithe]

How does the Amplified Sorceries work? Any spell cast by CoS wizards is the empowered realm version if applicable...meaning what?

[Azamar]

Just now, Malakithe said:

How does the Amplified Sorceries work? Any spell cast by CoS wizards is the empowered realm version if applicable...meaning what?

Meaning if the spell has a boost in a certain realm (for example, rolling 15 dice instead of 12 for the quicksilver swords) it also gets that boost if a cos wizard casts it. Or at least that’s how I understand it. 

[Malakithe]

2 minutes ago, Azamar said:

Meaning if the spell has a boost in a certain realm (for example, rolling 15 dice instead of 12 for the quicksilver swords) it also gets that boost if a cos wizard casts it. Or at least that’s how I understand it. 

So thats for endless spells then? What about the Battlemages personal realm boosts?

[Azamar]

1 minute ago, Malakithe said:

So thats for endless spells then? What about the Battlemages personal realm boosts?

Only information I’ve got is from the community article, which just mentions endless spells.

[AlmGandix3]

1 hour ago, Izotzuhure said:

I've been going through the GMG video and I have a question about Hallowheart CA. Could you pass those mortal wounds to your retinue? Let's say a Phoenix Guard unit so they could try to save those MW. And then, the ones you didn't pass, you could save them on a 4+ with the Aqshy item, right? 

If I remember correctly you gain the cast bonuses that the caster took in mortal wounds and the negated ones don't count. But if you gain the dice roll your good to go with negating

[Malakithe]

5 minutes ago, AlmGandix3 said:

If I remember correctly you gain the cast bonuses that the caster took in mortal wounds and the negated ones don't count. But if you gain the dice roll your good to go with negating

Just heal those wounds back with one of Hallowhearts bazillion cast attempts from 6ish wizards lol

[Kyriakin]

Just found out Anvilguard is in the Realm of Fire. That seems like a weird visual match for Scourge Privateers, and the like.

Feels like they should really be in the Realm of Shadow.

Edited September 29, 2019 by Kyriakin

[zilberfrid]

15 minutes ago, Kyriakin said:

Just found out Anvilguard is in the Realm of Fire. That seems like a weird visual match for Scourge Privateers, and the like.

Feels like they should really be in the Realm of Shadow.

Yeah, the realm lockin is really bugging me.

I can understand the city simply is in a specific place, but I had planned to do stuff that now simply does not fit, and all cities are in two realms, really cutting down on the options.

All in all, I still think the tome is a net positive, but I really hope they do not take out the FP allegiance in GHB 2020, because this book has more limits than any battletome before.

[Kyriakin]

2 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

Yeah, the realm lockin is really bugging me.

I can understand the city simply is in a specific place, but I had planned to do stuff that now simply does not fit, and all cities are in two realms, really cutting down on the options.

All in all, I still think the tome is a net positive, but I really hope they do not take out the FP allegiance in GHB 2020, because this book has more limits than any battletome before.

The Living City is obviously right on the money in terms of its realm, but the rest less-so.

[zilberfrid]

2 minutes ago, Kyriakin said:

The Living City is obviously right on the money in terms of its realm, but the rest less-so.

Phoenix would fit best as a dual between life and fire, because, well, that's what phoenixes are.

Greywater Fastness has very little to do with life, and would better fit metal.

Hammerhal fits Azyr themes.

Anvilgard would fit Beast or Shadow.

and so on.

 

But we can't take realm stuff for the best fit, because they decided they needed to take the old cities and change nothing about them.

[adreal]

Maybe in the next generals handbook they will introduce some new cities in the other realms

[PraetorDragoon]

1 hour ago, Malakithe said:

So thats for endless spells then? What about the Battlemages personal realm boosts?

Amplified Sorceries states that if you cast an enless spell it always benefit from the empowered rule, regardless of realm.

[Izotzuhure]

54 minutes ago, AlmGandix3 said:

If I remember correctly you gain the cast bonuses that the caster took in mortal wounds and the negated ones don't count. But if you gain the dice roll your good to go with negating

This is the description of the CA according to the video: 

"You can use this CA at the start of your hero phase, if you do so you can pick one friendly Hallowheart wizard unit and roll a dice. That wizard suffers a number of MW equal to the roll and in addition until the start of the next hero phase add that roll to the cast roll of all friendly Hallowheart wizard units within 12” of them."

So, technically, you wound't have to suffer the MW in order to gain the extra to your cast, right? Also, if worded this way, you could even use a unit of Sisters of the Thorn to suffer the MW and then they could heal themselves with the healing spell.