AoS 2 - Cities of Sigmar Discussion

[Thalassic Monstrosity]

23 minutes ago, prochuvi said:

Have the 40% of your expensive and loved army deleted by gw and try not be negative

Believe it or not I did. And before that I played both Bretonnia and Tomb Kings.

One thing that hasn't been brought up: with the range being so severely trimmed down, does anyone else think there's a chance the cities might lose their keyword restrictions?

Edited August 6, 2019 by Thalassic Monstrosity

[Skreech Verminking]

2 hours ago, prochuvi said:

Old armys or models who got full revamp with a new tome and didnt got units deleted:

Lon(all even nagash is old,only new ghosts werent in fantasy)

Skavens

Beast of khaos

Flesh eater

Well I mean the skaven haven’t lost as many models as the cities of Sigmar armies; but er still lost a chunk of it.

for example we have lost the deathrunner from silver tower, and the poisoned wind globe weapon team.

we have also lost like the better looking ratogres, the warlord and the newer engineer, which got squatted, but since most of their models still are beeing Sold, either in metal, finecrap, or just bad looking, O guess they technically don’t really count as squatted.

still technically everything that came later, was made out of plastic while looking some what cool, got squatted.

really tells you how much Gw hates plastic and good looking skaven.

[Skreech Verminking]

1 hour ago, Thalassic Monstrosity said:

Believe it or not I did. And before that I played both Bretonnia and Tomb Kings.

One thing that hasn't been brought up: with the range being so severely trimmed down, does anyone else think there's a chance the cities might lose their keyword restrictions?

No not really, but I guess we will see.

[antoara]

I think there is always the option of using those models that have no rules with rules of other models. In fact, my army is a mix of elves and humans, but I use them all as free peoples. Another example is a guy I played with that used tomb kings as legions of Nagash, or another that played bretonnians as flesh eaters, like if the army were the ilusion that themselves were living. People need to realize that although we like a game organized by a company, we need to be inteligent consumers about the product that they are selling us.

[JackStreicher]

14 hours ago, DionTheWanderer said:

Ellyrian Reaver

Are they squatted too?

[zilberfrid]

2 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

Are they squatted too?

The only high elf units left are shadow warriors, phoenix guard, flamespire phoenix and frostheart phoenix. Maybe the reavers were gone before, maybe now, but they are gone.

[Skarn]

12 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

The only high elf units left are shadow warriors, phoenix guard, flamespire phoenix and frostheart phoenix. Maybe the reavers were gone before, maybe now, but they are gone.

Im excited to see what they do with Tyrion's Aelves, but all these units being squatted is a sad day indeed

[zilberfrid]

1 minute ago, Skarn said:

Im excited to see what they do with Tyrion's Aelves, but all these units being squatted is a sad day indeed

You could see something in the remains, it is possible they took the aesthetic from these kits. 

[Knight Scáthach of Fimm]

A lot of Freeguild players seem to mostly be upset about the militia guard of all things. It seems like they were some kind of top tier unit that everyone took and invested in, when they really weren't, not even close. Sword and shield is the most common one followed by halberdiers. Secondly, they don't have a kit and haven't since AoS began, which, with a little foresight, would suggest that they would be axed when any update came out; I'd have loved to make some for aesthetics purposes, but knew they wouldn't stick around. And no, converting them is not a valid option from GW's point of view; everything must come in the box if it has in-game consequences.

Freeguild got the best of an already positive (for them) update. For the most part, they're sticking around. Sure, I have 20 archers that became invalid, but I'd rather have a new book and rules in exchange for an OK unit that I field as chaff. The general options aren't that big a deal, unless you're on horseback (of which, people have suggested, is likely to be remedied with a plastic solo kit, as that is both concurrent with GW's current practice of giving new solo models, and was an absolutely bizarre change considering it had a good kit the whole time. The current general available has a sculpted base, like a wight king, and you need to physically cut that base out of the plastic and put it on a circle!)

If you have a foot general, you simply won't be able to fire that pistol your boss is pointing etc. He's still here. My general is the Ludwig Schwarzhelm model so believe me, I'm suffering too, especially if the banner goes, but again, it's hardly a big deal in the grand scheme of things. We're trading some options of a single hero, a single unit, and a warscroll option that hasn't existed in model form for years, in exchange for the means to become relevant to the bigger game as a whole.

Besides, you could always be an elf player. Freeguild aren't the ones really suffering here.

[zilberfrid]

1 hour ago, Knight Scáthach of Fimm said:

A lot of Freeguild players seem to mostly be upset about the militia guard of all things. It seems like they were some kind of top tier unit that everyone took and invested in, when they really weren't, not even close. Sword and shield is the most common one followed by halberdiers. Secondly, they don't have a kit and haven't since AoS began, which, with a little foresight, would suggest that they would be axed when any update came out; I'd have loved to make some for aesthetics purposes, but knew they wouldn't stick around. And no, converting them is not a valid option from GW's point of view; everything must come in the box if it has in-game consequences.

Freeguild got the best of an already positive (for them) update. For the most part, they're sticking around. Sure, I have 20 archers that became invalid, but I'd rather have a new book and rules in exchange for an OK unit that I field as chaff. The general options aren't that big a deal, unless you're on horseback (of which, people have suggested, is likely to be remedied with a plastic solo kit, as that is both concurrent with GW's current practice of giving new solo models, and was an absolutely bizarre change considering it had a good kit the whole time. The current general available has a sculpted base, like a wight king, and you need to physically cut that base out of the plastic and put it on a circle!)

If you have a foot general, you simply won't be able to fire that pistol your boss is pointing etc. He's still here. My general is the Ludwig Schwarzhelm model so believe me, I'm suffering too, especially if the banner goes, but again, it's hardly a big deal in the grand scheme of things. We're trading some options of a single hero, a single unit, and a warscroll option that hasn't existed in model form for years, in exchange for the means to become relevant to the bigger game as a whole.

Besides, you could always be an elf player. Freeguild aren't the ones really suffering here.

I was converting 30 models to be militia, so that's a net loss. I liked the archers, and was trying to add them to cart but the stock was out before the site indicated as such. We lost ally options in Devoted and Ironweld.

The bigger loss is of course the general. Nobody gives him a great weapon, so if that's the only option, general sniping (which already was prevalent) you lost one save and the war banner. And yeah, the general we kept is horrible. There is a reason it was not on the warscroll, or in any army (as general, I could picture him in a greatsword unit, somewhere in the back). If it isn't replaced, GW is just stalling in trashing Freeguild.

We do not know whether Freeguild will keep an allegiance in the next GHB or if we need to use the city allegiance, and do not know what is in the book, so the only things we do know are negative. If there is no new plastic, we don't know the faction can get culled at any time, but I really suspect it will not last into 3.0. If there is new plastic, we have a better chance.

And no, we were far from hit the worst, Wanderers cut in half, Disposessed cut in half, Devoted and high elves mostly removed, those were the ones really hurt.

The most galling thing is the communication. Let's do a timeline

July 20:

"The arrival of Cities of Sigmar does mean a handful of Order units will be leaving the range and becoming Warhammer Legends later this year. We’ll be providing a full list of which ones closer to the time."

July 28:

Adding models to cart does not work, not yet marked as unavailable in the morning, but no longer available in the evening. Squatting watch is started on TGA. Reddit does not yet believe anything is wrong.

July 28-August 2:

More and more units becoming unavailable, War altar changed availability from no longer available to temporarily in the US to hide the squatting from being underway.

August 3 0:00: All sets now discontinued to "Last chance", New Zealand has a banner up and mailed a list, silence for the rest of the world.

August 3: 11:00: Banner up and mail sent for the rest of the world, the latter not with a list, but a general description. By this time over half of the models were gone. Models already out of stock worldwide were still 

August 3: 21:00: Gencon reveal of more Space Marines

August 4, somewhere in the afternoon, the last loremasters were gone.

August 5: Banners down from GW site. 27 warscrolls are affected, in 29 boxes. 

 

So, neither a handful of models, nor a list provided beforehand, and "later this year" meant in two weeks.

Edited August 6, 2019 by zilberfrid

[antoara]

2 hours ago, zilberfrid said:

I was converting 30 models to be militia, so that's a net loss. I liked the archers, and was trying to add them to cart but the stock was out before the site indicated as such. We lost ally options in Devoted and Ironweld.

The bigger loss is of course the general. Nobody gives him a great weapon, so if that's the only option, general sniping (which already was prevalent) you lost one save and the war banner. And yeah, the general we kept is horrible. There is a reason it was not on the warscroll, or in any army (as general, I could picture him in a greatsword unit, somewhere in the back). If it isn't replaced, GW is just stalling in trashing Freeguild.

We do not know whether Freeguild will keep an allegiance in the next GHB or if we need to use the city allegiance, and do not know what is in the book, so the only things we do know are negative. If there is no new plastic, we don't know the faction can get culled at any time, but I really suspect it will not last into 3.0. If there is new plastic, we have a better chance.

And no, we were far from hit the worst, Wanderers cut in half, Disposessed cut in half, Devoted and high elves mostly removed, those were the ones really hurt.

The most galling thing is the communication. Let's do a timeline

July 20:

"The arrival of Cities of Sigmar does mean a handful of Order units will be leaving the range and becoming Warhammer Legends later this year. We’ll be providing a full list of which ones closer to the time."

July 28:

Adding models to cart does not work, not yet marked as unavailable in the morning, but no longer available in the evening. Squatting watch is started on TGA. Reddit does not yet believe anything is wrong.

July 28-August 2:

More and more units becoming unavailable, War altar changed availability from no longer available to temporarily in the US to hide the squatting from being underway.

August 3 0:00: All sets now discontinued to "Last chance", New Zealand has a banner up and mailed a list, silence for the rest of the world.

August 3: 11:00: Banner up and mail sent for the rest of the world, the latter not with a list, but a general description. By this time over half of the models were gone. Models already out of stock worldwide were still 

August 3: 21:00: Gencon reveal of more Space Marines

August 4, somewhere in the afternoon, the last loremasters were gone.

August 5: Banners down from GW site. 27 warscrolls are affected, in 29 boxes. 

 

So, neither a handful of models, nor a list provided beforehand, and "later this year" meant in two weeks.

The thing that bothers me the most is the warscrolls changing, because I recently started a Hallowheart army and i have already build almost all the army, which is collegiate arcane and freepeoples.

Edit: By the way, where did you see the thing abaout warscrolls?

Edited August 6, 2019 by antoara

[zilberfrid]

10 minutes ago, antoara said:

The thing that bothers me the most is the warscrolls changing, because I recently started a Hallowheart army and i have already build almost all the army, which is collegiate arcane and freepeoples.

Edit: By the way, where did you see the thing abaout warscrolls?

For the culling, just a manual count of units, taking out doubles. GW stated the units would go to legends, which means thier warscrolls will get canned.

For CoS, they already stated the warscrolls would be updated. Losing militia is almost assured (militia is long out of prod), and the only reason for keeping this thing instead of the general would be that one or more of the options that general has are lost.

Edited August 6, 2019 by zilberfrid

[antoara]

1 minute ago, zilberfrid said:

For the culling, just a manual count of units, taking out doubles. GW stated the units would go to legends, which means thier warscrolls will get canned.

For CoS, they already stated the warscrolls would be updated. Losing militia is almost assured, and the only reason for keeping this thing instead of the general would be that one or more of the options that general has are lost.

So freeguild General with shield is going to be lost? Won't they remake it?

[zilberfrid]

4 minutes ago, antoara said:

So freeguild General with shield is going to be lost? Won't they remake it?

We don't know. I don't want to believe that they would leave us with the Empire Captain, but then, I think quite a few player did not want to believe what happened in friday's "night of the long knives".

[Aden]

7 hours ago, antoara said:

I think there is always the option of using those models that have no rules with rules of other models. In fact, my army is a mix of elves and humans, but I use them all as free peoples. 

You beat me to it! If you're model represents the same thing as another model, why not count it as that other model? Far as I've seen people don't really mind as long as the base size properly corresponds.  

Edited August 6, 2019 by Aden
Clarity

[Enochi]

Sigh this is such a cluster ******. 

Honestly the "Best" time if GW wanted to can these units was back in when AoS 2.0 came out. People would have been mad but would have taken it as growing pains of a developing game. It wouldn't have even been as bad if they did it during one of the GHBs. But they did it in the worst way possible. By creating high expectations with the cities of sigmar book then sneakily eliminating a huge chunk of units vastly increased the malcontent with GWs actions. Now they are letting players stew in the betrayal while focusing on 40k means no one is going to give the new book a fair shake and its going to have to be Well "Above-average" to pacify these players. 

I get that GW wants players to buy new models that is understandable. They are a business. But the method should be by creating models that makes me want to buy them not saying I can't play with my current models anymore. 

I mean think about it this way. If they had made DoK, Idoneth, or Sylvaneth have some really good units to ally in with the old aelf line people would have picked them up so supplement their own forces. Then slowly grown their new "allies" into an army of their own. This would have engendered good will towards GW by those players for giving them models to play with and feeling at least included. To really hammer if home if they wanted. Make a couple of "Alliance warscrolls" that feature a new unit with an old one from a different range to really help push it. 

I mean this isn't rocket science. 

[Forrix]

12 hours ago, Thalassic Monstrosity said:

Believe it or not I did. And before that I played both Bretonnia and Tomb Kings.

One thing that hasn't been brought up: with the range being so severely trimmed down, does anyone else think there's a chance the cities might lose their keyword restrictions?

I strongly think the old faction keywords (dispossessed, wander, ect) will be gone. We'll have Aelf, Duardin, and Free People (or something like human) keywords instead. The aelfs still have a lot of unit kits left but are pretty lacking in heroes if you look at the subfactions (only 1 hero for Wanderer left). It would make sense if they just merge them together. I think Aelves, Duardin, and Free People will each have a minor allegiance ability like the skaven clans then the Seven Free Cities will each have their own major allegiance ability that supports a certain play style or emphasis taking Aelves, Duardin, or Free People.  

[Thalassic Monstrosity]

15 minutes ago, Forrix said:

I strongly think the old faction keywords (dispossessed, wander, ect) will be gone. We'll have Aelf, Duardin, and Free People (or something like human) keywords instead. The aelfs still have a lot of unit kits left but are pretty lacking in heroes if you look at the subfactions (only 1 hero for Wanderer left). It would make sense if they just merge them together. I think Aelves, Duardin, and Free People will each have a minor allegiance ability like the skaven clans then the Seven Free Cities will each have their own major allegiance ability that supports a certain play style or emphasis taking Aelves, Duardin, or Free People.  

That's what I think we'll see as well!

[zilberfrid]

30 minutes ago, Forrix said:

I strongly think the old faction keywords (dispossessed, wander, ect) will be gone. We'll have Aelf, Duardin, and Free People (or something like human) keywords instead. The aelfs still have a lot of unit kits left but are pretty lacking in heroes if you look at the subfactions (only 1 hero for Wanderer left). It would make sense if they just merge them together. I think Aelves, Duardin, and Free People will each have a minor allegiance ability like the skaven clans then the Seven Free Cities will each have their own major allegiance ability that supports a certain play style or emphasis taking Aelves, Duardin, or Free People.  

The issue with the disposessed and wanderer keywords, is that the lines are incomplete. Aelf is also quite a big keyword, encompassing DoK, IDK, Dark elves, High elf remains and Wanderer remains. I don't know what they'll do, but it's not an easy one.

Edited August 6, 2019 by zilberfrid

[Carnith]

2 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

The issue with the disposessed and wanderer keywords, is that the lines are incomplete. Aelf is also quite a big keyword, encompassing DoK, IDK, Dark elves, High elf remains and Wanderer remains. I don't know what they'll do, but it's not an easy one.

I mean that's pretty easy to do. If it is just Aelves, then you stipulate that it's only Aelves that appear in this book, and if any aelves outside of the book are allowed, say DoK for some city, then it'll only affect them for that city. The nomad Prince might have some rule for Cities units to gain some benefit, he might only affect aelves, or I think in a weird case, only the current wanderers. I don't think we will see faction keywords for the most part considering Swifthawks are 1 units (unless shadow warriors are moved to another faction like Phoenixes or Wanderers), or devoted are just down to their troops. So baring a surprise of new model lines to fill back in some factions, racial keywords is my bet on where things go.

[kuroyume]

21 hours ago, Double Misfire said:

Karl Franz as either a major Sigmarite saint

There's already some vague hints that the Celestant-Prime could  be Karl Franz reforged.

[Forrix]

58 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

The issue with the disposessed and wanderer keywords, is that the lines are incomplete. Aelf is also quite a big keyword, encompassing DoK, IDK, Dark elves, High elf remains and Wanderer remains. I don't know what they'll do, but it's not an easy one.

I wasn't thinking about elf and duardin keywords outside of Cities of Sigmar. I think the wanderer and possibly dispossessed keywords will be going away.

1.) There will be a new keyword for aelves/duardin specific to Cities of Sigmar (for duardin this could just be dispossessed).

2.) The allegiance abilities for aelves/duardin will only be active in a Cities of Sigmar army but will effect aelves/duardin outside of that allegiance if taken in a Cities of Sigmar army (aka allies). I like this option more but it will be harder to balance. It would allow a smoother integration of KO into Tempest's Eye (the city we know can also take KO in allegiance).

[zilberfrid]

21 minutes ago, kuroyume said:

There's already some vague hints that the Celestant-Prime could  be Karl Franz reforged.

I think it was stated that he was a king from somewhere. Emperor and Prince, not king.

[JackStreicher]

7 hours ago, Knight Scáthach of Fimm said:

consequences

 

And yes, I always act like an absolute adult. 🤣

 

„Besides, you could always be an elf player. Freeguild aren't the ones really suffering here.“

luckily I collect Dark Elves which weren‘t affected that much. =} Besudes, after thousands of years the Dark Elves finally succeeded since High elves are pretty much eradicated 🤘🏽

Edited August 6, 2019 by JackStreicher

[Thalassic Monstrosity]

36 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

Besudes, after thousands of years the Dark Elves finally succeeded since High elves are pretty much eradicated 🤘🏽

 

Insult to injury, after Asuryan revealed that Malekith was the true Phoenix King.

Isha: "Isn't Malekith the one responsible for thousands of elven deaths?"

Asuryan: "Yes I'm high Karen, what does it matter?"