AoS 2 - Cities of Sigmar Discussion

[Maturin]

6 hours ago, TheadTheOgorSlayer said:

also does their command ability (the death frenzy one that allows dead models to fight) need a general? Or does it just need a unit to use? I only have a 1d4chan description and it makes it sound like the unit uses the ability not a hero. Sounded weird tho so idk

It's part of their warscroll : https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls//aos_flagellants_eng.pdf

[dekay]

3 hours ago, Maturin said:

Bad idea, it's at the battleshock phase that the MW occurs, not when then flagellants are killed.

But the extra attack buff just requires flagellants dead in the same turn, and that's what I think @TheadTheOgorSlayer is aiming for. Killing them with your own spells (or things like luminark, i guess) seems like a viable tactic. Plus guys killed in your own hero phase will trigger battleshock too, just make sure they get close enough to the enemy in movement/charge phases.

Second thing, 'death frenzy' - if you mean Phoenicium command ability, it doesn't need a general. However, it needs to be a hero on phoenix (either flame or frost) so you'll need to include at least one (why wouldn't you, those things are crazy good and you get +1 W for using them in Phoenicium. Unless youre *dead* set on no bird no elf thing ). You choose said hero, and the skill works on any models within range on him. Multiple units if you manage to fit them around him.

EDIT:

Given it some more thought:

In isolation, your thoughts of buffing flagellant are correct and yes, that's how they're meant to be used. However (and yeah, I'm repeating my point from several other threads, sorry if I bore you guys ;)), keep in mind that you're basically asking 'i want to play the Phoenix city but without the phoenix. will I win?'. Answer is 'probably no'. You will do a lot of heroic dying, though, so that's one objective accomplished. 

Flagellants buffed by killing them with your own spells are good. With throwaway units to trigger Phoenicium trait, they're better. But they're objectively worse than flagellants additionally buffed by hurricanum, proper spell support and within range of aforementioned phoenix aura. CoS may *seem* like an army where you can do heavy theming to the point of using just 2-3 units or however many your subfaction might have, but even Slaanesh will seem like a terrible tome if you restrict yourself to using, say seekers only, and absolutely no keepers of secrets because it doesn't fit your theme. Army structure matters.

Edited January 1, 2020 by dekay

[TheadTheOgorSlayer]

@dekay but dem elves... Dey smell funny  

Looking at their rules.... maybe... I could fit one or two in.... the above list was for 1k so I can get one then all flagellants. Then at 2k I could add the other thing you said. 

My next army project after orruks is going to be a themed one with conversions and greenstuff. A death cult sounded a little cool and flagellants plus the Phoenix city seemed a solid way to represent. My other ideas are hobgoblins, water nymphs (just water themed Sylvaneth basically), flying goblin pirates, and fly people.

We shall see what I end up making 

[TheArborealWalrus]

On 1/1/2020 at 8:54 AM, TheadTheOgorSlayer said:

but dem elves... Dey smell funny

Don't think of them as smelly elves on top of uppity pigeons. Instead think of them as the objects of your cult's devotion. What are they worshipping? What are they inspired by? Maybe the ice ones are aging those nearby who don't follow the cult, or maybe the mortal wounds aren't flames but the souls being sucked out of your foes? The huricanum (if you wanted to bring one) could be a mobile altar to their god (possibly Nagash?) It's all about theming what you "need" to be a fightable list so that everything fits. Take my huricanum for example. It is a mobile command center on a floating dais. The thought of a altar in my practically minded legions felt silly, so instead I chose something that fell in line with my theme.

I love your theme and am interested to see what you do with it. Don't give up! Also those other ideas sounded cool too. What would the hobgoblins represent?

[TheadTheOgorSlayer]

30 minutes ago, TheArborealWalrus said:

Don't think of them as smelly elves on top of uppity pigeons. Instead think of them as the objects of your cult's devotion. What are they worshipping? What are they inspired by? Maybe the ice ones are aging those nearby who don't follow the cult, or maybe the mortal wounds aren't flames but the souls being sucked out of your foes? The huricanum (if you wanted to bring one) could be a mobile altar to their god (possibly Nagash?) It's all about theming what you "need" to be a fightable list so that everything fits. Take my huricanum for example. It is a mobile command center on a floating dais. The thought of a altar in my practically minded legions felt silly, so instead I chose something that fell in line with my theme.

I love your theme and am interested to see what you do with it. Don't give up! Also those other ideas sounded cool too. What would the hobgoblins represent?

The hobgoblins would be using beasts of chaos rules. I was thinking with the whole orruks getting bigger in AOS that maybe goblinoids could get a little bigger too. But instead of just size gorkamorka also gave them extra kunnin. The armour debuffs are gorkamorka sending visions of the best moments to stab the enemy in the urty bits. And it would also give the feeling of the old worlds goblins. Particularly the chariot riding gobbos who rode in great caravans across the old world

[Double Misfire]

So an overall potentially interesting day of reveals for CoS - the Archaon vs Bonereapers campaign book means we'll almost certainly get one down the line for the Gordrakk vs Excelcis/Azyr plot that's been hyped just as much.

I wonder if the new High/pointy aelves will grow out of CoS's exisiting Phoenix Temple (or even Shadowblade) stuff, the same way Nighthaunt were an expansion of the four ghost warscrolls in Legions of Nagash... 🤔

[dekay]

1 hour ago, Double Misfire said:

So an overall potentially interesting day of reveals for CoS - the Archaon vs Bonereapers campaign book means we'll almost certainly get one down the line for the Gordrakk vs Excelcis/Azyr plot that's been hyped just as much.

Given how those thing usually go, it's also possible we'll get some new endless spells from the new expansion. Previous one had some.

[Kramer]

Cogfort pistoliers anyone 😍

[zilberfrid]

54 minutes ago, Kramer said:

Cogfort pistoliers anyone 😍

Yeah, ****** the elves, this is what I want!

The flyers also work to make the gap between Kharadron and Tempest's Eye blurry. I can see these as humans among the Dahwi Edrinriggers/Skywardens, or a palatable variant of the Knight Azyros. 

But look at these. They must have known they'd be nabbed for Tempest's Eye. Double pistols, repeater arms, and a military saber (in the other picture).

Robot space cowboys, the lot of them.

[Kramer]

49 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

or a palatable variant of the Knight Azyros. 

Oh that's very very good.

I like the idea of using them for Endrinriggers as well as I still find it bit annoying the method of propulsion is visually not really there. But then I would feel the need to change the skyships to sail powered as well. Which makes it a very extensive project 😅

[zilberfrid]

2 minutes ago, Kramer said:

Oh that's very very good.

I like the idea of using them for Endrinriggers as well as I still find it bit annoying the method of propulsion is visually not really there. But then I would feel the need to change the skyships to sail powered as well. Which makes it a very extensive project 😅

I am going for combined kharadron and steam/gearpunk humans now, and I'm still wondering what to do for a human frigate. The Archeopter is an option, but it isn't all that.

First I need to do some lorecrafting for the combined city/skyport, so I can slot everything in better.

(current projects: too many

• Halfling Hallowheart (small, some 20 more models and some terrain and I'll call it done
• Mountaintop Tempest's Eye/Kharadron Overlords (big. Very, very big.)
• Vanilla Hammerhall (I think I have a 80% of a 2k list ready, maybe just finish it to get it off my list))

[Kramer]

7 hours ago, zilberfrid said:

I am going for combined kharadron and steam/gearpunk humans now, and I'm still wondering what to do for a human frigate. The Archeopter is an option, but it isn't all that.

First I need to do some lorecrafting for the combined city/skyport, so I can slot everything in better.

(current projects: too many

• Halfling Hallowheart (small, some 20 more models and some terrain and I'll call it done
• Mountaintop Tempest's Eye/Kharadron Overlords (big. Very, very big.)
• Vanilla Hammerhall (I think I have a 80% of a 2k list ready, maybe just finish it to get it off my list))

If you use these wings for the Endrinriggers I feel the airship should match that style. 
Maybe you could use some of the Drucari range? 

 

or the skitari flying transport that’s shown in the video in the same article? Even if you only use the wings it’s a perfect match design wise then. 
 

[zilberfrid]

17 minutes ago, Kramer said:

If you use these wings for the Endrinriggers I feel the airship should match that style. 
Maybe you could use some of the Drucari range? 

 

or the skitari flying transport that’s shown in the video in the same article? Even if you only use the wings it’s a perfect match design wise then. 
 

You know, the Drukhari range is quite a good idea. Take out a few spikes, and you have shapes similar to the Steam Tank.

It actually fits better than the Archeopter (the flyer in the picture). Thanks!

[Kramer]

3 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

You know, the Drukhari range is quite a good idea. Take out a few spikes, and you have shapes similar to the Steam Tank.

It actually fits better than the Archeopter (the flyer in the picture). Thanks!

Now that you mention it. It does have the same sloped armour panels. Glad to be of help. 

[swarmofseals]

Looking over the CanCon/Call to Glory lists I continue to be shocked that basically nobody is running Cities as a gunline. I guess there was one guy playing Greywater artillery, but that's about it!

[dekay]

1 hour ago, swarmofseals said:

Looking over the CanCon/Call to Glory lists I continue to be shocked that basically nobody is running Cities as a gunline. I guess there was one guy playing Greywater artillery, but that's about it!

When it comes to weird, more important thing is that Anvilgard Serpentis list actually worked well. And that's actually wonderful news. That's like, three seperate 'X is useless' dispelled at once

[JackStreicher]

43 minutes ago, dekay said:

When it comes to weird, more important thing is that Anvilgard Serpentis list actually worked well. And that's actually wonderful news. That's like, three seperate 'X is useless' dispelled at once

Depends.

seems like he just needed something to tank out objectives (Drakespawns) while the dragons did the heavy lifting?

It‘s also important to know that such niche lists are hard to deal with since no body knows what they do

Additionally it is „only“ place 8 in one tournament.

 

edit: The Subfaction and the knights are still bad, I guess he surprised his opponents with his monster mash

Edited January 28, 2020 by JackStreicher

[dekay]

8 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

Depends.

seems like he just needed something to tank out objectives (Drakespawns) while the dragons did the heavy lifting?

It‘s also important to know that such niche lists are hard to deal with since no body knows what they do

Additionally it is „only“ place 8 in one tournament.

 

edit: The Subfaction and the knights are still bad, I guess he surprised his opponents with his monster mash

Oh I'm not saying they're suddenly good. They clearly aren't, just numbers wise. But given the fact that someone managed to get some actual performance out of them, they're not useless. Hard to use? Probably. Depending on being very non-meta? Likely. But still, top 10 on big tournament.

Yeah I'd assume that dragons and chariots (also of drakespawn variety - also nice to see) did most of the killing, but even if knights were just an objective holder, it's still good there's any possible reason to get them on the table.

[Gecktron]

10 hours ago, dekay said:

When it comes to weird, more important thing is that Anvilgard Serpentis list actually worked well. And that's actually wonderful news. That's like, three seperate 'X is useless' dispelled at once

I was also excited to see a Hammerhalian Lancers army among the top 10!

[SwampHeart]

13 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

Additionally it is „only“ place 8 in one tournament.

That's a top 5% finish in a field of 220, its not 'only' 8. Its a top 10 at the largest AoS event in the world. 

Edited January 28, 2020 by SwampHeart

[SwampHeart]

14 hours ago, swarmofseals said:

Looking over the CanCon/Call to Glory lists I continue to be shocked that basically nobody is running Cities as a gunline. I guess there was one guy playing Greywater artillery, but that's about it!

Most people I've talked with who've tested it (and this is my experience as well) find that pure gun line falls apart. It looks good on paper until you play something like IDK or LC that null deploys or you just play Warclans and you can't do enough damage before 5 'Ardboyz wipes out 30 Handgunners at a time. Its a turns 1-2 monster but just lags hard after those turns to armies that hold up

[swarmofseals]

1 hour ago, SwampHeart said:

Most people I've talked with who've tested it (and this is my experience as well) find that pure gun line falls apart. It looks good on paper until you play something like IDK or LC that null deploys or you just play Warclans and you can't do enough damage before 5 'Ardboyz wipes out 30 Handgunners at a time. Its a turns 1-2 monster but just lags hard after those turns to armies that hold up

Yeah, I would assume IDK would be a challenging matchup. Maybe Warclans as well. The non-viability of the strategy seems like an exaggeration though given the melee-less Hallowheart lists that dominated GTs while doing less damage than a pure shooting army could (and while ostensibly having the same weaknesses to null deployment etc.)

[JackStreicher]

2 hours ago, SwampHeart said:

That's a top 5% finish in a field of 220, its not 'only' 8. Its a top 10 at the largest AoS event in the world. 

Yup, yet it was a niche list no one really knew how to handle I suspect.

how many games were played (per player) at cancon?

[SwampHeart]

18 minutes ago, swarmofseals said:

Yeah, I would assume IDK would be a challenging matchup. Maybe Warclans as well. The non-viability of the strategy seems like an exaggeration though given the melee-less Hallowheart lists that dominated GTs while doing less damage than a pure shooting army could (and while ostensibly having the same weaknesses to null deployment etc.)

Hallowheart's best finish was 1st at BnG and since then has hovered in the top 10 a few times. It is also incredibly vulnerable to null deploys. Regarding the viability, feel free to give it a go. I tried it and had limited success with old Skyhook spam Company in TE but I found that I lagged out at the end of games and generally found this to be a shared experience with others I discussed the concept with. 

Hallowheart and Gunlines in general are amazing king maker armies at GTs - they'll do exceptionally well for most of the field but ultimately what they serve is as a check on who can make the podium, the armies with the tools to beat them will podium and keep the pure gunline/magic gun lines in the 4-1 also ran territory.  Also if you look at the lists that did well at LVO/CanCon this weekend, the Hallowhearts that succeeded were defintely blended lists that leaned on shooting but brought some significant elements of movement and or combat. 

[SwampHeart]

2 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

how many games were played (per player) at cancon?

6 rounds, he won 5 of them. He beat Khorne x2, FEC, Mawtribes x2 and lost to Mawtribes once. There's also another Anvilguard player (Andrew Bigwood) who went 4-2 with a similar list (beat Petrifex Elite on stream during round 4).