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8 hours ago, Myrdin said:

This might be a dumb question but:

Can Hurricanum Run, and then still use its Storm of Shemtek ability ?

SoS is resolved in the shooting phase but is not a shooting attack. But at the same time I can see the counter argument as well.

Alternatively if the answer to the first question is NO, then can a Hurricanum  move, run, of its SoS if it was the target of the Tempest Eye City ability that allows it to run and shoot ?

It's definitely a shooting attack so you can't run and shoot unless using something that allows it. What ability are you thinking of?

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8 hours ago, Kringle said:

It's definitely a shooting attack so you can't run and shoot unless using something that allows it. What ability are you thinking of?

Tempest Eye COMMAND ABILITY:
Rapid Redeploy

You can use this command ability in your shooting phase. If you do so, pick 1 friendly TEMPEST’S EYE unit that is wholly within 12" of a friendly TEMPEST’S EYE HERO. That unit can shoot even if it ran in the same turn.

If the Storm of Shemtek ability is treated as shooting attack then I think the answer is yes as far as Rapid Redeploy goes. I was mostly unsure whether its a shooting attack.

Thats why I said its a dumb question. I never had the reason to "run" with my Hurricanum. Move ? yes, but never run. And There was a situation where I strongly considered this to pull of a certain setup, but wasnt sure if its possible to do so and still use the SoS ability.

Edited by Myrdin
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10 hours ago, Myrdin said:

Tempest Eye COMMAND ABILITY:
Rapid Redeploy

You can use this command ability in your shooting phase. If you do so, pick 1 friendly TEMPEST’S EYE unit that is wholly within 12" of a friendly TEMPEST’S EYE HERO. That unit can shoot even if it ran in the same turn.

If the Storm of Shemtek ability is treated as shooting attack then I think the answer is yes as far as Rapid Redeploy goes. I was mostly unsure whether its a shooting attack.

Thats why I said its a dumb question. I never had the reason to "run" with my Hurricanum. Move ? yes, but never run. And There was a situation where I strongly considered this to pull of a certain setup, but wasnt sure if its possible to do so and still use the SoS ability.

Like Kringle said, it's definitely a shooting attack. It has a Missile Weapon profile. It just doesn't roll to hit and wound like a normal weapon. 

An example of a non-shooting attack ability that happens in the shooting phase would be something like Rockgut Troggoths Throwin' Boulders. 

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Morning all,

I've resurrected an old article series I tried out back in the Season of War: Firestorm days (admittedly only producing a single article for), examining how to get the most mileage out each of the different city allegiances, kicky off with my much beloved Greywater Fastness:

https://doublemisfire.blogspot.com/2020/02/the-lonely-realmsphere-guide-greywater.html

Feedback very very welcome, I'd love to know how informative and/or entertaining this guide was, and if I've missed anything obvious out. :) 

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Hello guys!

I share with you my Hallowheart army. I'm going to two big tournaments in France in the next weeks and I will take this list. Hope you like the minis!

Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar
 - Mortal Realm: Aqshy
 - City: Hallowheart

LEADERS
Sorceress (90)
- General
- Command Trait : Warden of the Flame 
- Spell : Lore of Whitefire - Roaming Wildfire (Hallowheart Wizard)
- Hallowheart 2nd Spell : Elemental Cyclone
Battlemage (90)
- Spell : Lore of Whitefire - Crystal Aegis (Hallowheart Wizard)
- Hallowheart 2nd Spell : Ignite Weapons
- City Role : General's Adjutant (Must be 6 wounds or less)
- Mortal Realm : Hysh
Celestial Hurricanum With Celestial Battlemage (280)
- Artefact : Cleansing Brooch 
- Spell : Lore of Whitefire - Sear Wounds (Hallowheart Wizard)
- Hallowheart 2nd Spell : Warding Brand
Sorceress on Black Dragon (300)
- Witch Rod
- Spell : Lore of Whitefire - Sear Wounds (Hallowheart Wizard)
- Hallowheart 2nd Spell : Warding Brand

UNITS
10 x Freeguild Handgunners (100)
- City Role : Honoured Retinue (Must be 5-20 models)
30 x Darkshards (300)
30 x Black Guard (420)
3 x Scourgerunner Chariots (150)
5 x Tree-Revenants (80)
- Allies

ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS
Soulscream Bridge (80)
Soulsnare Shackles (40)
Umbral Spellportal (70

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Another city allegiance guide up, and this time for the very much maligned Anvilgard, focusing on capitalising on a couple of hidden gems to bring them to a competitive level. Big shout out to @dekay for helping out and casting an eye over it before it was published:

https://www.doublemisfire.com/2020/02/the-lonely-realmsphere-guide-anvilgard.html

 

Feedback very welcome as per :) 

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Hey guys, looking for some advice for a game coming up this Friday. We're playing total commitment from the GHB 2019, and I'm playing against Ossiarch. I've got two lists I'm considering taking, but not sure which to go for. My opponent normally had katakros, a catapult, 2 or 3 smaller heroes, 3 x 10 guard, a harvester and a unit of SIX (I know) necropolis stalkers.

I'm weighing up between Hammerhal and Hallowheart. I've got an extra command point with hammerhal and its basically all the minis I have in my collection. Hallowheart is based more around ****** loads of magic and hoping for mortal wounds whereas my hammerhal plan is to hold one side and advance on the other with my more offensive troops. What do you guys think I should go for? Any constructive criticism welcome. Thanks.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 2/25/2020 at 8:33 PM, Stega314 said:

Hey guys, looking for some advice for a game coming up this Friday. We're playing total commitment from the GHB 2019, and I'm playing against Ossiarch. I've got two lists I'm considering taking, but not sure which to go for. My opponent normally had katakros, a catapult, 2 or 3 smaller heroes, 3 x 10 guard, a harvester and a unit of SIX (I know) necropolis stalkers.

I'm weighing up between Hammerhal and Hallowheart. I've got an extra command point with hammerhal and its basically all the minis I have in my collection. Hallowheart is based more around ****** loads of magic and hoping for mortal wounds whereas my hammerhal plan is to hold one side and advance on the other with my more offensive troops. What do you guys think I should go for? Any constructive criticism welcome. Thanks.

 

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I am keen to take a list with flagellants so keen to know what you think about them. I saw you took them in the hallowheart list. 

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  • 3 weeks later...

I've fielded Flagellants a few times and I can tell you that they're awful in a vacuum, but their high number of attacks mean that as soon as buffs start affecting them, they are capable of becoming blenders. With room for +3 to hit and +2 to wound before they're at 2+/2+, there's no such thing as a redundant buff on a Flagellant.

They require more tactical thought than most units and positioning is key, since you want them in combat at the same time as other troops so that ideally they can strike after their opponent and reap the additional attacks they get from taking damage.

The other reason that positioning is key is their battleshock ability. Get into combat with a powerful unit and make sure that one of the opponent's heroes is within 6" of one of the Flagellants, then in the battleshock phase it's entirely possible to spring a nasty surprise on the enemy by having a bunch of fleeing Flagellants assassinate the hero. Doing a mortal wound on a 4+ is statistically a pretty good use of a Flagellant so Bravery penalties are actually not as scary for them as they are for most hordes (unless you're not within 6" of an enemy).

They break a couple of other traditional rules as well: because they have no armour save, mortal wounds aren't a big deal to them, and because they get extra attacks after taking casualties, enemies who always strike first can even find themselves at a disadvantage.

Overall, I love them, though they will often disappoint. They're at their best in big units, with buffs from, e.g. the Celestial Hurricanum, Knight-Azyros, and various command traits and artifacts, attacking (or at least screening against) high-value targets. They're at their worst fighting cheap enemy battleline, unsupported. If you're looking for an anvil for enemies to get bogged down against, almost any other Cities of Sigmar melee infantry does it better. If you're looking for sneaky tricks and you have ability to outmaneuvre the enemy, you'll be pleasantly surprised by Flagellants.

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14 hours ago, StapMyVitals said:

I've fielded Flagellants a few times and I can tell you that they're awful in a vacuum, but their high number of attacks mean that as soon as buffs start affecting them, they are capable of becoming blenders. With room for +3 to hit and +2 to wound before they're at 2+/2+, there's no such thing as a redundant buff on a Flagellant.

They require more tactical thought than most units and positioning is key, since you want them in combat at the same time as other troops so that ideally they can strike after their opponent and reap the additional attacks they get from taking damage.

The other reason that positioning is key is their battleshock ability. Get into combat with a powerful unit and make sure that one of the opponent's heroes is within 6" of one of the Flagellants, then in the battleshock phase it's entirely possible to spring a nasty surprise on the enemy by having a bunch of fleeing Flagellants assassinate the hero. Doing a mortal wound on a 4+ is statistically a pretty good use of a Flagellant so Bravery penalties are actually not as scary for them as they are for most hordes (unless you're not within 6" of an enemy).

They break a couple of other traditional rules as well: because they have no armour save, mortal wounds aren't a big deal to them, and because they get extra attacks after taking casualties, enemies who always strike first can even find themselves at a disadvantage.

Overall, I love them, though they will often disappoint. They're at their best in big units, with buffs from, e.g. the Celestial Hurricanum, Knight-Azyros, and various command traits and artifacts, attacking (or at least screening against) high-value targets. They're at their worst fighting cheap enemy battleline, unsupported. If you're looking for an anvil for enemies to get bogged down against, almost any other Cities of Sigmar melee infantry does it better. If you're looking for sneaky tricks and you have ability to outmaneuvre the enemy, you'll be pleasantly surprised by Flagellants.

Have you tried using them in Phoenecium?

 

I'm going to attempt a list with 6*10 Flagellants.

 

When one group of 10 dies, which they'll do easily due to the +7 armor save, then that same group gets to fight back with the Phoenecium command ability. And since more than 5+ died, that's 40 attacks back. They'll also be at +1/+1 due to the Phoenecium battle trait. If they charged too, that means they'll do 14 damage back on a +4 armor save unit.

 

 

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15 hours ago, Rune said:

Have you tried using them in Phoenecium?

 

I'm going to attempt a list with 6*10 Flagellants.

 

When one group of 10 dies, which they'll do easily due to the +7 armor save, then that same group gets to fight back with the Phoenecium command ability. And since more than 5+ died, that's 40 attacks back. They'll also be at +1/+1 due to the Phoenecium battle trait. If they charged too, that means they'll do 14 damage back on a +4 armor save unit.

A concern with attempting this is that each time you attempt this you will have to spend a command point.  Sadly for the Phoenicium, it doesn't really have any way to generate a bunch of those.

You get 1 per turn.
Then on a 4+ you can get one from an adjutant.
Then you can get 1 from bringing 2 phoenix's in the battalion (which is 750 points right there).

And that's it.  So turn 1, you have a 50/50 shot of starting with 2 or 3 command points, and then each turn after that you gain an average of 1.5 command points.  I'm not sure that is enough to be spamming a bunch of MSU units.

Considering that they die to a stiff breeze, I would actually look to take advantage of the slightly larger units, and try to run units of 20 instead.  3 units of 20 cost as much as 6 units of 10, but carry buffs and command point usage significantly better.  If you have a battlemage as your general, they also still count as your battleline, leaving 1430 points remaining in your list for assorted other stuff.  Additionally, since they are on 25mm bases, you should still be able to get 15-20 of them into combat on the pile in.

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Appreciate the input! 

Three reasons to your points for why I'm first going to try them in small units of 10 - at least at first. 

It's so important they die, as that's how I get the +1/+1 from the battle trait. I don't want the opponent to have too many options in their combat phase to select a unit to fight that won't kill one of my units.

The command point is on models within 12", so no conga lining into range. 

As you say, I won't have a lot of command abilities, so they will lot be used for rerolling 1s. 

 

Might have to buy a command point. I'll keep you posted on how it goes.

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On 3/25/2020 at 12:07 AM, Rune said:

Have you tried using them in Phoenecium?

 

I'm going to attempt a list with 6*10 Flagellants.

 

When one group of 10 dies, which they'll do easily due to the +7 armor save, then that same group gets to fight back with the Phoenecium command ability. And since more than 5+ died, that's 40 attacks back. They'll also be at +1/+1 due to the Phoenecium battle trait. If they charged too, that means they'll do 14 damage back on a +4 armor save unit.

 

 

I haven't tried this, largely because I don't have a phoenix model. I'd also point to the specific wording of the rules for taking wounds and the command ability:

"Wounds are allocated one at a time to models in the target unit"

"Once the number of wounds allocated to a model during the battle equals its Wounds characteristic, the model is slain. Place a slain model to one side - it is removed from play"

and 

"...if a friendly PHOENICIUM model is slain...that model can fight before it is removed from play."

I think an opponent could credibly argue that the first Flagellant to die gets no bonus attacks when he fights, the second to fifth to die get +1 attack, and the final five get +2 attacks for a total of 34 attacks (35 with a prophet). Furthermore, of the first unit to die, none of them get the +1/+1 to hit and wound, because the attacks are carried out before each model is slain, one at time, so none of them is fighting after the first unit is wiped out in the phase and only certain models benefit from the Glorious Martyrs rule.

EDIT: Alternatively, if you interpret "slain" and "removed from play" as two separate events, the first Flagellant could benefit from the +1 attack of Glorious Martyrs as he has been slain at the time of the attack, then the fifth Flagellant onward would get +2 attacks for a total of 36 (37) attacks from the unit. That way the final Flagellant to die WOULD get the +1 to hit and wound. Either way the strategy wouldn't be quite as devastating though.

Edited by StapMyVitals
New interpretation of the rules occurred to me.
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44 minutes ago, StapMyVitals said:

I haven't tried this, largely because I don't have a phoenix model. I'd also point to the specific wording of the rules for taking wounds and the command ability:

"Wounds are allocated one at a time to models in the target unit"

"Once the number of wounds allocated to a model during the battle equals its Wounds characteristic, the model is slain. Place a slain model to one side - it is removed from play"

and 

"...if a friendly PHOENICIUM model is slain...that model can fight before it is removed from play."

I think an opponent could credibly argue that the first Flagellant to die gets no bonus attacks when he fights, the second to fifth to die get +1 attack, and the final five get +2 attacks for a total of 34 attacks (35 with a prophet). Furthermore, of the first unit to die, none of them get the +1/+1 to hit and wound, because the attacks are carried out before each model is slain, one at time, so none of them is fighting after the first unit is wiped out in the phase and only certain models benefit from the Glorious Martyrs rule.

EDIT: Alternatively, if you interpret "slain" and "removed from play" as two separate events, the first Flagellant could benefit from the +1 attack of Glorious Martyrs as he has been slain at the time of the attack, then the fifth Flagellant onward would get +2 attacks for a total of 36 (37) attacks from the unit. That way the final Flagellant to die WOULD get the +1 to hit and wound. Either way the strategy wouldn't be quite as devastating though.

I think you are correct with your logic. It'll largely only be a minus for the first Flagellant unit to die though, onwards in that turn it'll be almost the same.

An added bonus is that the model gets to fight, so it can pile in another 3" and then do the attack, possibly on a different model than what it at first seemed to be fighting.

Edited by Rune
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On 3/25/2020 at 2:37 AM, StapMyVitals said:

I've fielded Flagellants a few times and I can tell you that they're awful in a vacuum, but their high number of attacks mean that as soon as buffs start affecting them, they are capable of becoming blenders. With room for +3 to hit and +2 to wound before they're at 2+/2+, there's no such thing as a redundant buff on a Flagellant.

They require more tactical thought than most units and positioning is key, since you want them in combat at the same time as other troops so that ideally they can strike after their opponent and reap the additional attacks they get from taking damage.

The other reason that positioning is key is their battleshock ability. Get into combat with a powerful unit and make sure that one of the opponent's heroes is within 6" of one of the Flagellants, then in the battleshock phase it's entirely possible to spring a nasty surprise on the enemy by having a bunch of fleeing Flagellants assassinate the hero. Doing a mortal wound on a 4+ is statistically a pretty good use of a Flagellant so Bravery penalties are actually not as scary for them as they are for most hordes (unless you're not within 6" of an enemy).

They break a couple of other traditional rules as well: because they have no armour save, mortal wounds aren't a big deal to them, and because they get extra attacks after taking casualties, enemies who always strike first can even find themselves at a disadvantage.

Overall, I love them, though they will often disappoint. They're at their best in big units, with buffs from, e.g. the Celestial Hurricanum, Knight-Azyros, and various command traits and artifacts, attacking (or at least screening against) high-value targets. They're at their worst fighting cheap enemy battleline, unsupported. If you're looking for an anvil for enemies to get bogged down against, almost any other Cities of Sigmar melee infantry does it better. If you're looking for sneaky tricks and you have ability to outmaneuvre the enemy, you'll be pleasantly surprised by Flagellants.

How do do you use them if the other player is going to be screening everything? I was thinking maybe they will be good against OBR because they do mortal wounds and I avoid the 3+/3+ save. 

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7 hours ago, Mace108 said:

How do do you use them if the other player is going to be screening everything? I was thinking maybe they will be good against OBR because they do mortal wounds and I avoid the 3+/3+ save. 

I'm not going to say Flagellants are some undiscovered super unit that's going to dominate the meta, so it's fully possible your opponent will screen effectively and that'll be that. However, there's screening, and there's screening so that not a single model of your blob of Movement 6 troops get within 6" of their vulnerable enemy hero after pile-in. I suspect that the latter will be a much greater tactical challenge. If even a single Flagellant gets within 6" of a soft target, and the battleshock phase is devastating enough for you, that can be a choice hero sniped by the sacrifice of quite a cheap unit.

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As I'm clearing through my Ogre Pile of Shame, I'm considering moving to CoS next.
I want to go full human, with plenty of blackpowder and Greatswords ideally. Basically full Empire vibe if possible.
Could anyone give me some pointers of City and lists to build towards so I'm spending money in the right places?
I don't mind being competitive or not, just ideally not getting blown apart every time I put my models down on the table...

Cheers all! 

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7 minutes ago, Cchalmers said:

As I'm clearing through my Ogre Pile of Shame, I'm considering moving to CoS next.
I want to go full human, with plenty of blackpowder and Greatswords ideally. Basically full Empire vibe if possible.
Could anyone give me some pointers of City and lists to build towards so I'm spending money in the right places?
I don't mind being competitive or not, just ideally not getting blown apart every time I put my models down on the table...

Cheers all! 

You want a Celestial Hurricanum, and then there are different options:

Tempest's Eye: Pistoleers and General on Griffin will be your mainstay.

Hammerhall: General on Griffin (again) with lots of demis. Probably a General with gunners for your backline, with guards to defend, and possibly greatswords for a bit extra omph.

Greywater: Try to get an Empire Engineer, and your artillery and handgunners will be quite potent. Do keep some guards on hand to screen, and a battlemage for the various transgressions of the Geneva convention in your spell list.

Greatswords work best close to a general, but the general on foot is quite static (giving less chance to actually come into melee) and the general on griffin too fast for the Greatswords. 

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On 4/1/2020 at 5:34 PM, StapMyVitals said:

I'm not going to say Flagellants are some undiscovered super unit that's going to dominate the meta, so it's fully possible your opponent will screen effectively and that'll be that. However, there's screening, and there's screening so that not a single model of your blob of Movement 6 troops get within 6" of their vulnerable enemy hero after pile-in. I suspect that the latter will be a much greater tactical challenge. If even a single Flagellant gets within 6" of a soft target, and the battleshock phase is devastating enough for you, that can be a choice hero sniped by the sacrifice of quite a cheap unit.

Yeah I also think that it would be fun to be able to do that. 

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28 minutes ago, Mace108 said:

That list looks really fun, how do you setup and use it tactically? 

It really is loads of fun. Currently my favourite list.

 

The heroes and Phoenix guard are the core of the list. Flagellants too, but you can also use Freeguild Guards with halberds. For the rest I've been using various different units.

The Flagellants die so easily. They'll buff your whole army with +1/+1 for the entire combat phase. Try and put your opponent in a situation where he is likely to give you that buff. If they charged they have +2/+2 themselves, and with the Phoenecium command ability they get to fight when they die. Which triggers their own warscroll ability, so a unit of 10 will get 37 attacks on +3/+2. 

Behind them you've got your Phoenixes. One to drop mortals on their backline (consider giving it Thermal Rider cloak, possibly accompanied by Gyrocopters), and one to engage with the enemies strongest unit. 

Knight-Azyros is there to provide the Human keyword for Flagellants, but also to be a tanky hero with great movement they can keep the +1 save on the Phonixes by being within 12" when he heals them.

Re-roll 1s isn't too bad either. 

Battlemage is there for Phas Protection and another source or command points and +1 save for the Phoenix.

Behind the screen of Flagellants there are the Phoenix Guards. Who will hit on +2/+2, and re-roll all hits and wounds for great stable damage. 

Lastly I've been experimenting with different high damage units to really benefit from the "Death frenzy". Wild riders are pretty decent. Demis could be used too. Also tried with a Prime. Greatswords is what I'm going to try next.

 

Give it a try! I can try and record a game next when I have one, but the sound will be in Danish so might not be so interesting for you.

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6 hours ago, Rune said:

It really is loads of fun. Currently my favourite list.

 

The heroes and Phoenix guard are the core of the list. Flagellants too, but you can also use Freeguild Guards with halberds. For the rest I've been using various different units.

The Flagellants die so easily. They'll buff your whole army with +1/+1 for the entire combat phase. Try and put your opponent in a situation where he is likely to give you that buff. If they charged they have +2/+2 themselves, and with the Phoenecium command ability they get to fight when they die. Which triggers their own warscroll ability, so a unit of 10 will get 37 attacks on +3/+2. 

Behind them you've got your Phoenixes. One to drop mortals on their backline (consider giving it Thermal Rider cloak, possibly accompanied by Gyrocopters), and one to engage with the enemies strongest unit. 

Knight-Azyros is there to provide the Human keyword for Flagellants, but also to be a tanky hero with great movement they can keep the +1 save on the Phonixes by being within 12" when he heals them.

Re-roll 1s isn't too bad either. 

Battlemage is there for Phas Protection and another source or command points and +1 save for the Phoenix.

Behind the screen of Flagellants there are the Phoenix Guards. Who will hit on +2/+2, and re-roll all hits and wounds for great stable damage. 

Lastly I've been experimenting with different high damage units to really benefit from the "Death frenzy". Wild riders are pretty decent. Demis could be used too. Also tried with a Prime. Greatswords is what I'm going to try next.

 

Give it a try! I can try and record a game next when I have one, but the sound will be in Danish so might not be so interesting for you.

Wow that is amazing! 

I am impressed, have you been to any tournaments with that list? Have you had any trouble against lists that shoot or battle plans which require you to get lots of different objectives? 

I am worried that Phenix Guard will be costed higher once the new GHB comes out, I have not yet purchased 30 of them because of that and COVID-19...

My collection of a cities of sigmar army has been really slowed by COVID and I really don't think GW will open back up when they said they will. 

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