AoS 2 - Cities of Sigmar Discussion

[Fulcanelli]

25 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

If you want to make it more distinct from a couldron of Blood, you could use something like the Realm Key as a topper, or a signalling system to explain the +1 attack.

Agree, what I care about this sort of conversion is to not confuse my opponent with other existing units.
In this case the cauldron is a distinctive piece, I wonder how it could be taken for a hurricanum...

Edited December 23, 2019 by Fulcanelli

[AlmGandix3]

How good are handgunners as your main battleline? I saw some lists using two max units and sometimes even more.

Is the overwatch good enough?

Edited December 23, 2019 by AlmGandix3
Added another question

[SwampHeart]

6 hours ago, AlmGandix3 said:

How good are handgunners as your main battleline? I saw some lists using two max units and sometimes even more.

Is the overwatch good enough?

Fantastic - they're high value. They take buffs well and aren't overly punished by moving. Additionally stand and shoot takes a melee unit and turns it into a pseudo melee unit on the turn they're charged. It can of course be worked around and isn't going to win a game entirely on its own but it really makes charging them so much less attractive than a regular ranged unit. I can't see leaving home without 20-30. 

[Kramer]

7 hours ago, AlmGandix3 said:

How good are handgunners as your main battleline? I saw some lists using two max units and sometimes even more.

Is the overwatch good enough?

From my limited point of view absolutely. 
A screen that strike first if you charge it while bypassing all strikes first abilities. Yes please. 
and of course there are ways around it but anything that forces your opponent to make difficult choices I’d always take.  
but that also suits my playstyle. 

[TheArborealWalrus]

Probably a poor idea, but I was struck by the thought of dudes in plate with guns and thought of the grundstock thunderers. With a khemist  I feel they could do quite well with the longer range and better armour than gunners. Slap +1 to wound on them and they could be a mobile fire base. Thematic too if you wanted to represent a shooty army's elite infantry as not using swords.

So the actual question is has anyone tried the Grundstcorp out? Are they worth it as allies or do you have to go  Tempests eye? Do allies count as "friendly" unit/hero for bodyguard/advisor purposes? (it doesn't actually list it needing to be a cities unit unless I missed that in the FAQ)

On a separate note. I've been trying to find a good close combat unit that isn't around 400pts in the army. Something that could reasonably mess up a monster if they strike first and cheap enough that you could include a duplicate without making your entire army about them. (600pts of the army was what I had been shooting to be in the ballpark of)The closest I've found are the phoenix guard, but they have the reputation as a "golden unit"  in my group so I'm trying to avoid them if I can. I tried out an all combat army theme and … well, it wasn't very effective. Too squishy, or too pillow fisted in my limited free guild trial run. I'll be trying out lances on the gryphs to see if they can put out the hurt (preferably with +1 to wound) next.

What has everyone else been using as the combat wing of their army? Am I crazy to want to engage in melee with our army? Are the small 10 man units of the elites worth taking? (greatswords, black guard, ect)

[Aelfric]

I'm waiting for the new KO battletome before commiting to buying into them - although I am quite keen.  My Cities army are all Aelven at the moment.  Just painting up ten converted Aelven Handgunners with a couple of Humans in (planning to build another 10) and would like to add some sort of Duardin to mix it up a bit.

[Gwydion]

Warden King and two units of 20 Hammerers comes close. Even without the Warden King, the Hammerers are pretty solid.

[stratigo]

2 hours ago, Gwydion said:

Warden King and two units of 20 Hammerers comes close. Even without the Warden King, the Hammerers are pretty solid.

Being completely honest, hammerers are just too basic. They don’t cheat hard enough to be good in a competitive meta. Not like the current all stars of melee in aos

[Gwydion]

4 hours ago, stratigo said:

Being completely honest, hammerers are just too basic. They don’t cheat hard enough to be good in a competitive meta. Not like the current all stars of melee in aos

I'll take your word for it. Don't have any experience with uber-competitive AoS. But he didn't specify that he was looking for something in a competitive meta, just:

7 hours ago, TheArborealWalrus said:

Something that could reasonably mess up a monster if they strike first and cheap enough that you could include a duplicate without making your entire army about them.

And, frankly, the Hammerers qualify just fine for that.

Edited December 25, 2019 by Gwydion

[Skreech Verminking]

On 12/22/2019 at 11:26 PM, Alessio said:

I'm looking for some converions ideas to make an hurricanum looking more "elvish".

Maybe convertinga drakespawn chariot or a daughters of khain shrine.

Do you have any suggestions?

 

Yeah I had an idea from a long time ago.

it’s basically putting a altar of chaos onto a mawcrushers back, and an elfish sorcerers onto the altar.

The idea was mostly showing How grimdark the dark elves ones were with the help of some chao bitz and greenstuff.

But since I probably won’t be going back to my dark elves anytime soon, I guess I’ll be passing the idea to you guys.

[Arathorn185]

So what everyone Verdict on Retinue after two months? Is it worth it?

[zilberfrid]

1 hour ago, Arathorn185 said:

So what everyone Verdict on Retinue after two months? Is it worth it?

I'd say absolutely. There is a lot of lord sniping on the field, and most of our lords are super squishy, well, at least the lords that are applicable to retinue.

[SwampHeart]

23 hours ago, Arathorn185 said:

So what everyone Verdict on Retinue after two months? Is it worth it?

Must use? Our army relies consistently on heroes being on the table and getting buffs spread out so you really need to make sure those heroes stay alive anyway possible. Its a rare day that my general isn't in cover near his retinue. 

[Fulcanelli]

Which unit have you chosen as retinue for your general?
I'm particularly interested in the freeguild range.

[dekay]

53 minutes ago, Fulcanelli said:

Which unit have you chosen as retinue for your general?
I'm particularly interested in the freeguild range.

Freeguild guard with shields for some durability if you want a dedicated retinue unit, any of your small units of shooters that you need to keep your general close to anyway, just to cut the costs. But if you want them tough, use dwarves instead. Apart from that, dreadspears and bleakswords are a perfect retinue for a sorceress general if you ever plan to branch out to other subfactions (and you should at some point ; ))

[Rune]

2 hours ago, Fulcanelli said:

Which unit have you chosen as retinue for your general?
I'm particularly interested in the freeguild range.

Handgunners for a general you keep in the back. They loose less from going under 10 models. 

 

Guards for close combat.

[zilberfrid]

2 hours ago, Fulcanelli said:

Which unit have you chosen as retinue for your general?
I'm particularly interested in the freeguild range.

Phoenix guard have the best chance of negating the damage, but handgunners would be a good thing to be useful when the general isn't in batle, and to dissuade chargers.

[Fulcanelli]

Thanks @dekay, @Rune and @zilberfrid for replies. 

I want to run a Freeguild General on foot; handgunners as retinue is a good idea, in order to benefit from Hold the line and protect my general.

It's kinda funny that it would be aesthetically nice to see my General with a group of Greatswords, like bodyguard élite warriors, but it seems the worst choice.

[dekay]

Another thing to discuss:

Griffon mage or dragon sorceress? Cost is the same, and so is, broadly speaking, function.

Griffon is 1' faster. Dragon has 1 more wound. Griffon bites a bit harder, but dragon gets breath weapon (that, unless used on hordes, is not very reliable).

Save is a pretty bad 5+ on both, so they won't be tanking any hits, sadly, especially compared to their non magical versions.

Sorceress gets bladewind for some mortal wound output. Battlemage gets amber spear for arguably better mortal wound output, and wildform, one of our better utility spells.

Sorceress can get +2 to cast when she kills a minion, battlemage +1 next to a hurricanum and situational another +1 when fighting in Ghur (if we're using realm rules. I wouldn't bank on it)

The biggest difference, sorceress gets two command abilities, one unique, both awesome when used on black guard. So, obviously, if you *do* have black guard, sorceress proably wins out, but apart from that, as a solo caster / monster? Opinions?

[Double Misfire]

On 12/27/2019 at 10:38 AM, Fulcanelli said:

Which unit have you chosen as retinue for your general?
I'm particularly interested in the freeguild range.

Phoenix Guard

 

[Aelfric]

Just finished my first unit of Handgunners and thought I'd post a few pictures.  Not really gone beyond basic kitbashing before, but I had an image in my head of Aelven Musketeers and had to give it a go.  Hope you  like them.  

[mikethefish]

On 12/24/2019 at 3:10 PM, TheArborealWalrus said:

So the actual question is has anyone tried the Grundstcorp out?

As the rules stand, the all-rifle version of the Grundcorp are definitely worth taking.

That being said, the Grundcorp are one of the units most folks expect to see have big changes in the upcoming book, so...standby.

[TheArborealWalrus]

On 12/27/2019 at 1:40 PM, dekay said:

Griffon mage or dragon sorceress?

Of course if you're going for a darkling focused list I'd say dragon sorceress, but for a more generalized combat/magic monster I'd go with the griffon mage. More consistent melee damage(flat with possible additional attacks), I'd argue a more versatile magic load out(with more potential damage), and I just love the griffon model. The -2 rend and potentially 6 damage is very good though. The difference in speed/wound count is negligible since both are faster than what they'd likely be running with. That's if we look at them in a vacuum against each other of course. I'd say taking a darkling contingent (black guard, some meat shields, and the sorceress) is definitely more valuable though. 700 or so points for a dangerous murder blob with magic support? That's pretty good. You can't really do that with the griffon wizard. So I guess it really depends on what you're trying to get out of your list (as usual). I'd be more inclined to add a coven detatchment than just the griffon wizard. He's probably something I'd take for fun, but for face smashing probably the coven. Alone? I'd probably leave both at home and pick something that synergized more.  My area is rather competitive though. Mileage will likely vary. Also you could use your old high elves as the coven

On 12/25/2019 at 3:07 PM, Arathorn185 said:

So what everyone Verdict on Retinue after two months? Is it worth it?

I'd say if you can take it, do so. It costs you nothing and you might not have to use it, or it could save the game. Biggest thing for a retinue is knowing where your general will be and make what he/she is hanging out with be the bodyguard. For my freeguild I've used both gunners and guard as the retinue, but alas greatswords are too valuable to throw in front of attacks. Obviously phoenix guard are the best retinue with a save vs mortals. General rule would be to pick something reasonably expendable by where your leader will usually be, or pick something who's job is only to be the retinue(/reserve unit).

 

[TheadTheOgorSlayer]

I have but one question....

is spamming flagellants in the phoenix’s city a viable strategy? And I mean just the angry insane holy men plus a general. No birds. No elf’s. Just pure unadulterated FLAILING

my list idea is:

a caster 90 pts

40 man squad 

bunch of 10 man squads

some endless spell to help me kill my guys while buffing them up, maybe burning head? Who knows

(don’t have book so don’t know the points)

 

basically the idea is too die. In sigmars holy name. Not looking for a competitive list that’ll whoop slaanesh (although I’m sure he/she/it would love that ) just one that can rock with other mid tiers and maybe win some games. Thoughts?

also does their command ability (the death frenzy one that allows dead models to fight) need a general? Or does it just need a unit to use? I only have a 1d4chan description and it makes it sound like the unit uses the ability not a hero. Sounded weird tho so idk

 

Edited January 1, 2020 by TheadTheOgorSlayer

[Maturin]

6 hours ago, TheadTheOgorSlayer said:

some endless spell to help me kill my guys while buffing them up, maybe burning head? Who knows

Bad idea, it's at the battleshock phase that the MW occurs, not when then flagellants are killed.

 

6 hours ago, TheadTheOgorSlayer said:

basically the idea is too die. In sigmars holy name. Not looking for a competitive list that’ll whoop slaanesh (although I’m sure he/she/it would love that )