AoS 2 - Cities of Sigmar Discussion

[dekay]

7 hours ago, TheArborealWalrus said:

Might just be a matter of luck, but any ideas?

The most universal way would be trying to hide him behind something bigger. LoS blocking terrain is ideal but immobile and you don't get to decide its location. Big models are your second best choice. Do you have a Hurricanum? Most Cities list have one, and they're easy to hide behind.

Apart from that.. our heroes will die quite often, hard to fully prevent it. Try not to put too much functionality into a single character - if enemy has to choose between two kinda useful characters, they both have greater chance of surviving than a single very useful one.

[zilberfrid]

Our general lost a few options that would make him more durable, due to the choice to make the Empire Captain the counts as General (thus losing the shield), and loss of Indomitable.

That said, I would encourage you to leave the actual commanding of the troups to one General, and being the General to another, if the catapult becomes common, put him on a Griffin.

Not only is this a brilliant model, but the catapult is a murderer for foot lords, and one of the reasons I doubt the OBR are balanced. The griffin dude has a lot more wounds and a better save, so isn't as squishy.

I don't have the time to check it, but if the catapult deals mortal wounds, just sticking Ignax's scales on him also works.

Lastly, note that you already have battleshock immunity on your half of the field.

[gronnelg]

Are there any viable options for making a list primarly out of Wanderer units (and possibly a dab or two of Sylvaneth)? 
Have Wandereres retained any of their old abilites, or gained new ones?

[GM_Monkey]

2 minutes ago, gronnelg said:

Are there any viable options for making a list primarly out of Wanderer units (and possibly a dab or two of Sylvaneth)? 
Have Wandereres retained any of their old abilites, or gained new ones?

Living city allows you to mix in Sylvaneth units, 1 in every 4. The wanderer warscrolls have been updated, so you can run a mostly wanderer force, however we now lack and hero choice or hero spellcaster, so a pure Wanderer is a little hard. But the main core is still there.

[dekay]

38 minutes ago, gronnelg said:

Are there any viable options for making a list primarly out of Wanderer units (and possibly a dab or two of Sylvaneth)? 
Have Wandereres retained any of their old abilites, or gained new ones?

Living City, as mentioned, should be the first place you look at. Most its abilities are pretty wanderer-friendly. Plus, it allows Sylvaneth units.

Wanderers kept almost all of their units (except glade guard) in the culling preceding the battletome, but lost most of their heroes. You are now left only with Nomad Prince (and Sylvaneth characters) so if you want, say, a hero wizard, you have to look somewhere else. But, good news is, Battlemages have no restrictions when it comes to spell targets,  and require no particular support to function, so they work great with wanderer heavy army (including both wizardmobiles).

Also, If you happen to be one of the old Wood Elves players, Living City is the best place to make a good use of a dragon dreadlord, so anyone in possession of the old forset dragon model suddenly can rejoice ; )

And remember that Shadowblades provide great source of rules for glade guard and glade riders (with shadow warriors and dark riders, respectively) if you wanted to use more of the old models.

 

As for the old abilities - Wanderers lost all the allegiance stuff they had in GHB, but gained the ity allegiance abilities instead. The new ones are, arguably, better.

Edited November 12, 2019 by dekay

[SwampHeart]

11 hours ago, TheArborealWalrus said:

Even with look out sir and a bodyguard he got obliterated first by ironblasters and then by bone reaper catapults.

This seems like both bad luck and bad positioning. An Ironblaster should be hitting on 5s against a 3+ save model (unless something crazy has happened your general should be in terrain on round 1). Then you're passing half the wounds off on a 4+ to your retinue, the chances of an Ironblaster sniping your general turn one are very low. The OBR catapult is a bit worse because its fixed damage with a better to hit but the counter point is it has no rend so it should take 3 wounds to get you to fail one save of which you should on average only take 2-3 wounds from. 

[Myrdin]

Wait a sec guys. The OBR catapult doesnt just deal MW. 2 of its abilities say "the model is slain". That a hard removal, not just simple wounding of a unit.

[dekay]

9 minutes ago, Myrdin said:

Wait a sec guys. The OBR catapult doesnt just deal MW. 2 of its abilities say "the model is slain". That a hard removal, not just simple wounding of a unit.

It's once per game shot on 200 point behemoth. And if it's undamaged, it rolls with -3 modifier, making it extremely unreliable as alpha strike sniper. Yeah it sucks if it happens to succeed right at the start of battle and there's no real way of protecting yourself against it, but it has only around 40% chance of killing a 5 wound model.

I'm unsure, though, does that thing require line of sight? If yes, it's still relatively easy to hide from it. If not, well, it's best not to put too much faith into a single 5w character then...

[TheArborealWalrus]

On 11/12/2019 at 2:47 AM, Double Misfire said:

Bigger bodyguards. We've got Stormcast as an option for a reason

I was considering that. Wanted to bring out the old retributers again, see if they're any good still. Might be large enough to hide the boss, he's rather tall though...

On 11/12/2019 at 2:48 AM, dekay said:

The most universal way would be trying to hide him behind something bigger.

True. After getting penned into my deployment zone by beastclaws the game before, I opted to maintain pressure on the center. Relying on my 40 swordsmen and the pheonix guard to protect the boss. Unfortunately ironblasters are about double the height of a man so he just peeked over. Even more difficult against the catapult as it's around Nagash's height. I have a luminark, it's more that the huricanum feels shooting focused and I want to rely mostly on combat if I can. (Our players were scarred by an all shooting free guild list at a tournament back in the day. Trying to avoid those memories) It's rather difficult to do though.

On 11/12/2019 at 3:00 AM, zilberfrid said:

Lastly, note that you already have battleshock immunity on your half of the field

Unfortunately that's for hammerhal only, I was playing hallowheart. Alas, no more shield or banner, but at least you can't just idly poke him with a stick in melee anymore. I love the griffon model, but he always has underperformed when I use him. I'm reluctant to use my points on him. I might give him another shot if this keeps up though.

On 11/12/2019 at 6:46 AM, SwampHeart said:

An Ironblaster should be hitting on 5s against a 3+ save model

He was using the shooting mawtribe which gives an artifact that hands out +1 to hit against heroes/monsters. That combined with two of them and the double shot command ability was dangerous. Admittedly I should have thought about my set up more, as I could have held off, but I was thinking about the beastclaw game. He also got 3 hits that did 16 wounds (0 passed saves+ near max damage = oof). Also failed all 3 saves against the catapult (which does need line of sight). Like I said, might have just been bad luck.

I think I'll try using some phoenixes so that my opponent has something else to think about alongside a trial run of the stormcast helpers. I should make someone else my general, but I might not for thematic reasons. We'll see. I'll try it next weekend and let you know how it goes. (side note): Are batreps ok here? Are people interested in hearing them? 

Edited November 13, 2019 by TheArborealWalrus

[Double Misfire]

1 hour ago, TheArborealWalrus said:

I was considering that. Wanted to bring out the old retributers again, see if they're any good still. Might be large enough to hide the boss, he's rather tall though...

Ha! What mini are you using for your general?  

[AlmGandix3]

18 hours ago, dekay said:

I'm unsure, though, does that thing require line of sight? If yes, it's still relatively easy to hide from it. If not, well, it's best not to put too much faith into a single 5w character then...

In it's current wording the abilities don't need line of sight sadly. Maybe this will get an errata later down the line.

[Duke of Gisoreux]

33 minutes ago, AlmGandix3 said:

In it's current wording the abilities don't need line of sight sadly. Maybe this will get an errata later down the line.

What makes you think it doesn't need line of sight? All its special attacks are listed as separate missile weapon profiles and thus according to the core rules it needs line of sight like any other regular missile attack.

Quote

In order to attack with a missile weapon, the model using the weapon must be in range of the target unit (i.e. within the maximum distance, in inches, of the Range listed for the weapon making the attack), and the target unit must be visible to the model with the weapon

 

If it wouldn't need line of sight, it had to be explicitly  mentioned in the Mortek Crawler's warscroll. Like the Trebuchet for example:

Quote

Arcing Shot: This unit can shoot at enemy units that are not visible to it. If it does, subtract 1 from the hit roll for the unit’s Rocks and Masonry attack.

 

Edited November 13, 2019 by Duke of Gisoreux

[dekay]

Checked, @Duke of Gisoreux is right, it seems. Crawler only ignores attack sequence. Attack sequence begins with rolling to hit. So before that, crawler uses standard rules, and therefore must see its target.

[AlmGandix3]

@Duke of Gisoreux

@dekay 

Thanks for pointing that out I did misread it at first. Now I don't think the crawler is that op anymore, but still strong

[TheArborealWalrus]

23 hours ago, Double Misfire said:

Ha! What mini are you using for your general?  

He's a custom sculpt. Started life as a chaos chariot driver though. Retributer and temporary swordsman for scale. I've got more work to do on him, so he's not done yet. Based off of https://www.deviantart.com/l3monjuic3/art/House-Leo-Centurion-794039437.

Spoiler

 

Edited November 13, 2019 by TheArborealWalrus

[dekay]

10 hours ago, TheArborealWalrus said:

He's a custom sculpt. Started life as a chaos chariot driver though. Retributer and temporary swordsman for scale. I've got more work to do on him, so he's not done yet. Based off of https://www.deviantart.com/l3monjuic3/art/House-Leo-Centurion-794039437.

Nice model, but yeah, might be problematic to hide even behind stormcast. Nothing that some behemoth wouldn't solve though ; )

[zilberfrid]

1 hour ago, dekay said:

Nice model, but yeah, might be problematic to hide even behind stormcast. Nothing that some behemoth wouldn't solve though ; )

Plus, I am not exactly eager to use Stormcast in my army. My current general holds his sword aloft, I think that will change to a bit more forward.

[MrCharisma]

Some of you may find Faction Focus: Cities of Sigmar valuable. The video is 4 hours long and I've time stamped the best I could in the episode description. Between a human, aelf & duardin player... we attempt to deconstruct the book as best as possible, and to be honest; we could have done another 2+ hours.

 

Edited November 15, 2019 by MrCharisma

[Mikkl]

2 hours ago, MrCharisma said:

 

Some of you may find Faction Focus: Cities of Sigmar valuable.

 

I saw it yesterday, it was a great rundown, so thank you!

 

Has anybody here played with Ironbreakers?
I have aquired two  Greywater Watch start collecting boxes and I have heard a lot of praise for the Irondrakes, but I really prefer the Ironbreaker models. So I would love to hear any suggestions on how to use them effectively. And what is the best equipment for the leader?

Cheers!

Edited November 15, 2019 by Mikkl

[Maturin]

3 hours ago, MrCharisma said:

Some of you may find Faction Focus: Cities of Sigmar valuable. The video is 4 hours long and I've time stamped the best I could in the episode description. Between a human, aelf & duardin player... we attempt to deconstruct the book as best as possible, and to be honest; we could have done another 2+ hours.

Didn't you make a mistake with the timestamps ?

[FPC]

1 hour ago, Mikkl said:

I saw it yesterday, it was a great rundown, so thank you!

 

Has anybody here played with Ironbreakers?
I have aquired two  Greywater Watch start collecting boxes and I have heard a lot of praise for the Irondrakes, but I really prefer the Ironbreaker models. So I would love to hear any suggestions on how to use them effectively. And what is the best equipment for the leader?

Cheers!

I have a bunch on the way.  I haven´t used them yet tho.  In theory they sound good.  A nice 3+ save that become 2+ in round 1 (go first, run forward, make your opponent cut through 30 wounds of 2+ saves).   Their attack profile is only ok, but with 2 separate buffs available that add attacks it wouldn´t be hard to have each one dishing out 4 3+/4+/-/1 attacks.  Throw in a Runelord and you can get a little rend. Stick 10+ Longbeards nearby and grumble for reroll 1s to wound.  Things can quickly add up.  CoS is already big on synergy.  A nice wall of these could still put out some good damage and let your other units (counter-charging Hammerers, Great Weapon Longbeards, Irondrake) get into position.

Now, my strategy above falls to pieces if you don´t go first, and probably isn´t exactly super competitive.

[Asgog]

Hey everyone. So after reading through everything well as much as I could haha 😂. I have put together a list that I was wondering what y’all thought about.

 

 

Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar
- City: Tempest's Eye

Leaders
Aether-Khemist (140)
Knight-Incantor (140)
Celestial Hurricanum With Celestial Battlemage (280)
Sorceress (90)

Battleline
40 x Arkanaut Company (480)
30 x Darkshards (300)
30 x Eternal Guard (330)
10 x Freeguild Guard (80)
- Swords and Shields
10 x Freeguild Guard (80)
- Swords and Shields

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Soulscream Bridge (80)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 146

 

I’m looking at trying to go to quite a few events next year so this army needs to be at least somewhat competitive whilst still fun to play. 

 

Anyway let me know what you think good or bad. 

[Brodylan]

Has anyone had much success with artillery? Had my first 2k game with the greywater fastness battery, and while being a big distraction, they didn’t do too much. Irondrakes and gyrocopters on the other hand were absolutely amazing. 

[TheArborealWalrus]

11 hours ago, Brodylan said:

Has anyone had much success with artillery? Had my first 2k game with the greywater fastness battery, and while being a big distraction, they didn’t do too much. Irondrakes and gyrocopters on the other hand were absolutely amazing. 

- *shrug*  Mine has been a great assistant for killing stuff and generally maiming, but enough to carry the list? Not really. 

 

Battle report time! These are from 2 weeks ago, so the details are fuzzy, but here was my list. I'll get into the disaster battles later.

Spoiler

 

2,000pts hallowheart, 11 drops

100pts - Freeguild General - general , veteran of the burning crusade 

90pts -Battle wizard - advisor, the tome that let's him know all hallowheart's spells, light wizard

60pts - Cogsmith - 2 guns

280pts - 40 freeguild swordsmen

200pts - 20 handgunners

200pts - 20 crossbowmen

180pts - 3 demigryphs - halberds

180pts - 3 demigryphs - halberds

420pts - 30 greatswords

160pts - 20 freeguild halberdiers

130pts - hellstorm rocket battery

 

First battle  Mission: (I unfortunately don't remember, but we were long ways and close)

opponent: Ogres shooty mawtribe 
 

Spoiler

 

Tyrant - general , -1 to be wounded within 12" artifact , 3+ armour

Butcher with gut pot.

2x 6 leadbelchers

4 leadbelchers

2x ironblasters

9xmaneaters

 

- I set up in the center with the swordsmen securing the front and demis on my flanks. Everyone else kind of squidged in behind the swordsmen wall. There wasn't a lot of cover between us. I could shoot him first turn so he decided to go first. Moved up and peppered the swordsmen, killing a reasonable number, the maneaters then  made a long charge into the swordsmen. They wiped out the unit, but the greatswords were in range to assist and killed 5 of them with the general slaying another, fortunately for them they had the immune to battleshock trait and were fine. My turn I put the -1 to be hit on the greatswords and failed the other spell while the boss ordered our shooters to hold the line. Halberds rush in to attempt another meat wall while the handgunners wipe out the remaining maneaters and the other shooters effectively neutralized a larger leadbelcher unit. My demis manage to charge in and tie up the remaining leadbelchers, killing one each. Priority comes up and I win it, which was basically gg. The greatswords charged the ironblasters, killing both and injuring the butcher, tyrant slaughters the halberdiers (who charged him) and one of the demi units fluffs its saves and is wiped. The ogres freed themselves from the demis and the heroes were both slain by the greatswords (tyrant charged in) at great cost. I think he killed 14 of them. At that point we called it. 

Game two: also don't remember*shrug*( short way but squared deployment)t vs Shooty Ogres
Opponent's List:

Spoiler

Tyrant - general , -1 to be wounded within 12" artifact , 3+ armour

butcher

butcher with pot

3x4 leadbelchers

2x 4 maneaters

2 x ironblasters

 

- This time I put my shooters off on the sides with demigryphs acting as shields and flankers. Swordsmen in the middle in front of the artillery and other melee troops(plus command staff). He deployed pretty evenly across with the maneaters on the flanks and the blasters in the middle. I chose to go first as I once again could reach him with shooting. Both demi units moved just in range to grab the objectives. I used hold the line on the crossbows who wiped out a leadbelcher unit. The handgunners moved up and killed another model from a different unit and the hellstorm wounded an ironblaster. In response the ironblasters shot my greatswords, killing 8, and the army moved up. Strangely the belchers shot my gryphs instead of my shooters, did a couple of wounds. The maneaters on my right made a charge into the handgunners and gryphs while the tyrant and other maneaters made it into the swordsmen. Carnage ensues. 8 handgunners and a demigryph go down for 2 maneaters, 24 or so swordsmen are massacred for 3 maneaters and the tyrant's injury. (greatswords were supporting). Turn roll off and … he gets it. Unfortunately for him there's not much more he can do, he's already fully committed. Lost a gryph from the left, 7 handgunnerst, and 5 greatswords to shooting. The tyrant could only hit the swordsmen and killed another 10 or so. They responded and cleared that flank. The maneater tried  to kill the gryph but left him with one wound. He's injured and then finished off by the handgunners. My turn, I fail to cast spells and then moved the halberds at the ironblasters, greatswords went at remaining leadbelchers and the gryphs went to help there. In shooting the wounded belchers were finished(crossbows) and the butcher injured(hellstorm). The greatswords kill the pot butcher who was hanging by the belchers' remains and the halberds are wiped out by the butcher and cannons for the wounded cannon (probably a mistake). Turn roll off and my opponent wins it. The butcher goes for my hangunners while the blasters try to finish the swords to push and grab my home base. 2 swords are left and the blasters fail their charges. Butcher gets killed by overwatch and then we called it.

- Greatswords were definitely MVP. Saved my bacon from danger both games. Very expensive unit though. Would be reluctant to use them as bodyguards because of that. The guard are kind of  disappointing, but do well enough as meat shields. Everything else was just pretty okay. Ranged appears to be our strength, although I know that it isn't something that can be relied on to do so. One double turn and your shooting masterplan falls apart.  Sticking with a similar list in the next 3 games.

[FPC]

11 hours ago, TheArborealWalrus said:

- *shrug*  Mine has been a great assistant for killing stuff and generally maiming, but enough to carry the list? Not really. 

 

Battle report time! These are from 2 weeks ago, so the details are fuzzy, but here was my list. I'll get into the disaster battles later.

  Hide contents

 

2,000pts hallowheart, 11 drops

100pts - Freeguild General - general , veteran of the burning crusade 

90pts -Battle wizard - advisor, the tome that let's him know all hallowheart's spells, light wizard

60pts - Cogsmith - 2 guns

280pts - 40 freeguild swordsmen

200pts - 20 handgunners

200pts - 20 crossbowmen

180pts - 3 demigryphs - halberds

180pts - 3 demigryphs - halberds

420pts - 30 greatswords

160pts - 20 freeguild halberdiers

130pts - hellstorm rocket battery

 

First battle  Mission: (I unfortunately don't remember, but we were long ways and close)

opponent: Ogres shooty mawtribe 
 

  Hide contents

 

Tyrant - general , -1 to be wounded within 12" artifact , 3+ armour

Butcher with gut pot.

2x 6 leadbelchers

4 leadbelchers

2x ironblasters

9xmaneaters

 

- I set up in the center with the swordsmen securing the front and demis on my flanks. Everyone else kind of squidged in behind the swordsmen wall. There wasn't a lot of cover between us. I could shoot him first turn so he decided to go first. Moved up and peppered the swordsmen, killing a reasonable number, the maneaters then  made a long charge into the swordsmen. They wiped out the unit, but the greatswords were in range to assist and killed 5 of them with the general slaying another, fortunately for them they had the immune to battleshock trait and were fine. My turn I put the -1 to be hit on the greatswords and failed the other spell while the boss ordered our shooters to hold the line. Halberds rush in to attempt another meat wall while the handgunners wipe out the remaining maneaters and the other shooters effectively neutralized a larger leadbelcher unit. My demis manage to charge in and tie up the remaining leadbelchers, killing one each. Priority comes up and I win it, which was basically gg. The greatswords charged the ironblasters, killing both and injuring the butcher, tyrant slaughters the halberdiers (who charged him) and one of the demi units fluffs its saves and is wiped. The ogres freed themselves from the demis and the heroes were both slain by the greatswords (tyrant charged in) at great cost. I think he killed 14 of them. At that point we called it. 

Game two: also don't remember*shrug*( short way but squared deployment)t vs Shooty Ogres
Opponent's List:

  Reveal hidden contents

Tyrant - general , -1 to be wounded within 12" artifact , 3+ armour

butcher

butcher with pot

3x4 leadbelchers

2x 4 maneaters

2 x ironblasters

 

- This time I put my shooters off on the sides with demigryphs acting as shields and flankers. Swordsmen in the middle in front of the artillery and other melee troops(plus command staff). He deployed pretty evenly across with the maneaters on the flanks and the blasters in the middle. I chose to go first as I once again could reach him with shooting. Both demi units moved just in range to grab the objectives. I used hold the line on the crossbows who wiped out a leadbelcher unit. The handgunners moved up and killed another model from a different unit and the hellstorm wounded an ironblaster. In response the ironblasters shot my greatswords, killing 8, and the army moved up. Strangely the belchers shot my gryphs instead of my shooters, did a couple of wounds. The maneaters on my right made a charge into the handgunners and gryphs while the tyrant and other maneaters made it into the swordsmen. Carnage ensues. 8 handgunners and a demigryph go down for 2 maneaters, 24 or so swordsmen are massacred for 3 maneaters and the tyrant's injury. (greatswords were supporting). Turn roll off and … he gets it. Unfortunately for him there's not much more he can do, he's already fully committed. Lost a gryph from the left, 7 handgunnerst, and 5 greatswords to shooting. The tyrant could only hit the swordsmen and killed another 10 or so. They responded and cleared that flank. The maneater tried  to kill the gryph but left him with one wound. He's injured and then finished off by the handgunners. My turn, I fail to cast spells and then moved the halberds at the ironblasters, greatswords went at remaining leadbelchers and the gryphs went to help there. In shooting the wounded belchers were finished(crossbows) and the butcher injured(hellstorm). The greatswords kill the pot butcher who was hanging by the belchers' remains and the halberds are wiped out by the butcher and cannons for the wounded cannon (probably a mistake). Turn roll off and my opponent wins it. The butcher goes for my hangunners while the blasters try to finish the swords to push and grab my home base. 2 swords are left and the blasters fail their charges. Butcher gets killed by overwatch and then we called it.

- Greatswords were definitely MVP. Saved my bacon from danger both games. Very expensive unit though. Would be reluctant to use them as bodyguards because of that. The guard are kind of  disappointing, but do well enough as meat shields. Everything else was just pretty okay. Ranged appears to be our strength, although I know that it isn't something that can be relied on to do so. One double turn and your shooting masterplan falls apart.  Sticking with a similar list in the next 3 games.

I wouldn't be too impressed with these results.  Not sure how, but your opponent was 280 points below 2000 in the first game, and 120 points short in the second game (assuming those are actually 6 in each Maneater unit.  If not, they were even shorter on pts).  I can't imagine they were just going for extra CPs.  Are you sure those lists are accurate? 

Sounds like they took Maneaters in 4s in the second game, but they're bought in multiples of 3.