AoS 2 - Cities of Sigmar Discussion

[WindstormSCR]

1 hour ago, Frowny said:

Longbeards are a great example where they did this really well, which I like a lot. It's funny to think of them grumbling so hard that they dispel spells and makes them unique without being easily overpowered. I think the new luminarch and hurricanum and battlemages also were changes for the better but also with good interesting warscrolls in their own right.

I think longbeards and phoenix guard are examples of units that both have a similar role but do vastly different things well. both are easily classed as heavy infantry, but the longbeards are unconditional battleline and grumble, while the phoenix guard instead have raw durability vs spells and other non-weapon effects.

Another good example here might have been to let ironbreakers keep the dispel banner, or do something interesting with the cinderblast bomb to give them more of a "charge defense" niche.

I'm still sad about the loss of Order Draconis and Eldritch Council. mostly eldritch council

[Roark]

1 hour ago, WindstormSCR said:

I'm still sad about the loss of Order Draconis and Eldritch Council. mostly eldritch council

I'd like to hope that means there are plans for them in another tome.

[Charlo]

5 hours ago, Roark said:

I'd like to hope that means there are plans for them in another tome.

The models were discontinued mate. They're gone forever unfortunately.

[Malakithe]

Was unit sizes counting towards the 1 per 4 discussed?  All this talk about max size Arkanaut Company. Is that 1 unit of 10 per 4 or one unit of any size per 4?

[PraetorDragoon]

15 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

Was unit sizes counting towards the 1 per 4 discussed?  All this talk about max size Arkanaut Company. Is that 1 unit of 10 per 4 or one unit of any size per 4?

1 unit is 1 unit, regardless of how big it is.

On a different note,  my friend has a bunch of old dwarfs (as in, metal marauder hammerers old) and I wonder what the best city would be for him to try them in. And what the best choice is for his warriors & thunderers.

Edited October 3, 2019 by PraetorDragoon

[zilberfrid]

20 minutes ago, PraetorDragoon said:

1 unit is 1 unit, regardless of how big it is.

On a different note,  my friend has a bunch of old dwarfs (as in, metal marauder hammerers old) and I wonder what the best city would be for him to try them in. And what the best choice is for his warriors & thunderers.

Best choice for warriors is longbeards (though freeguild guard isn't bad), best choice for thunderers is freeguld handgunners, though you could convert a bit and make them iron drakes, or put them on mounts and make them Outriders for the batallion.

I think the best city may be Tempest's Eye, for its movement buff.

Edited October 3, 2019 by zilberfrid

[Izotzuhure]

Even though I'm all for Hallowheart and its magical prowess, the clown possibilities of the Phoenicium seem quite funny: 

x3 Dreadlord on Black Dragon

x3 Drakespawn knights 

x7 Drakespawn chariots /x9 Scorgerunner chariots

Knights hold objectives while dragons and chariots make a v line towards the enemy. Chariots charge, causing impact damage and die (6W & 4+ save only) so they can give +1/+1 to the dragons. You could even swap the 7 drakespawn chariot for 9 scourgerunner ones plus a CP to get some shooting with MW chance, faster and weaker chariots making it easier for the CA to trigger. 

[zilberfrid]

14 minutes ago, Izotzuhure said:

Even though I'm all for Hallowheart and its magical prowess, the clown possibilities of the Phoenicium seem quite funny: 

x3 Dreadlord on Black Dragon

x3 Drakespawn knights 

x7 Drakespawn chariots /x9 Scorgerunner chariots

Knights hold objectives while dragons and chariots make a v line towards the enemy. Chariots charge, causing impact damage and die (6W & 4+ save only) so they can give +1/+1 to the dragons. You could even swap the 7 drakespawn chariot for 9 scourgerunner ones plus a CP to get some shooting with MW chance, faster and weaker chariots making it easier for the CA to trigger. 

While lizardmounting is fun and all, are Drakespawn knights worth it? I'd sooner use 20 blobs of Dark Riders. 20 dark riders are 360 points, 10 drakes are 340, dark riders are more than half the durability

Edited October 3, 2019 by zilberfrid

[Myrdin]

Any one else here waiting for Battlescribe CoS release ?

Was hoping GWs Warscroll builder will be up to date with the release, but ofc that would be expecting to much I guess.

Considering how many units there are, and if like me, you are not interested in the most delicious cheese combos, rather you want a nice fun or thematic army, I find it difficult to pick and choose, and even more so build the list (thus I hope we can see a Battlescribe update for CoS soon).

I wonder if its viable to mix and match units, rather then building your own separate mini factions. I am mostly looking at mixing Feeguild and Wanderers, since Freeguild no longer has Archers.  It seems to me that stuff like Sisters of the Watch, and Shadow Warriors dont really need the buffs from their respective hero to be effective as their in built abilities are self reliant.

Meanwhile the Freeguild does need their general to become truly scary (many people here have already pointed out its not impossible to get 2+/2+ on their units with the correct setup. Thats really nothing to sniff at). 

On the other hand I am looking at the Dark elf chariots (I know I know, they are not DE anymore, but it gets the message across) and I find them fairly nice. 

I have not yet had the option to properly sit down and read page after page after page of how things mix and mash with each other, but is it correct to assume there are battalions who include most units options, rather then all of them being tied to separate subfactions ? (FG, Wanderers, Phoenix temple, etc etc)

[XReN]

8 minutes ago, Myrdin said:

I wonder if its viable to mix and match units, rather then building your own separate mini factions. I am mostly looking at mixing Feeguild and Wanderers, since Freeguild no longer has Archers.  It seems to me that stuff like Sisters of the Watch, and Shadow Warriors dont really need the buffs from their respective hero to be effective as their in built abilities are self reliant.

I think it will work, most factions have similar capabilities. Wanderers , Phoenix Temple and Disspossesed can deploy sturdy combat units. Disspossesed and Freeguild can bring shooting with rend. Freeguild and Darkling Covens have massed no rend shooting. Disspossesed and Freeguild have melee mortal wounds and Wanderers have ranged MWs etc.

 

27 minutes ago, Myrdin said:

but is it correct to assume there are battalions who include most units options, rather then all of them being tied to separate subfactions ? (FG, Wanderers, Phoenix temple, etc etc)

What do you mean by that? All battalions have been anounced and they are tied to sub factions

[Arkhanist]

5 hours ago, Myrdin said:

Was hoping GWs Warscroll builder will be up to date with the release, but ofc that would be expecting to much I guess.

Codex Battletome isn't actually released until Saturday (my copy will likely arrive Monday-ish). I imagine warscroll builder will update soon after the official release.

Edited October 3, 2019 by Arkhanist
wrong system, bad habit!

[Myrdin]

30 minutes ago, XReN said:

I think it will work, most factions have similar capabilities. Wanderers , Phoenix Temple and Disspossesed can deploy sturdy combat units. Disspossesed and Freeguild can bring shooting with rend. Freeguild and Darkling Covens have massed no rend shooting. Disspossesed and Freeguild have melee mortal wounds and Wanderers have ranged MWs etc.

 

What do you mean by that? All battalions have been anounced and they are tied to sub factions

1* Thanks. Looking forward to trying how it works together on the table

2* I asked the question wrongly. What I mean to say was whether the battalions are tied to the keywords like "Free Guild, Darklings, Wandereds, etc" or whether they are tied to something else.  But searching for It I can see they are tied to the specific Cities, and then to specific unit keywords, rather then just the units.

 

20 minutes ago, Arkhanist said:

Codex isn't actually released until Saturday (my copy will likely arrive Monday-ish). I imagine warscroll builder will update soon after the official release.

Really ? Because I already have my hard copy since this Monday. Though I havent had the chance to read it properly yeat (just flipping through the pages quickly). Hmm, in that case good job my LGS for obtaining it early

Edited October 3, 2019 by Myrdin

[Arkhanist]

53 minutes ago, Myrdin said:

Really ? Because I already have my hard copy since this Monday. Though I havent had the chance to read it properly yeat (just flipping through the pages quickly). Hmm, in that case good job my LGS for obtaining it early

Yup, official release date is the 5th. It's been a fair few years since I worked GW retail, but usually UK FLGS would be getting it today. It's presumably sent out earlier to other countries to arrive in time. I've sometimes had stuff posted in time to be delivered  on the Friday, but usually it's timed to arrive on launch day.

Reviewers get it early of course, and GW stores certainly used to get stuff at least a week extra in advance (sooner for really big launches) so they were ready for questions/to get demo stuff painted, but it was held until general release before they'd give out pre-orders (or Friday, if you were very very nice to the staff)

Your LGS was rather naughty letting you have it Monday, but good on them!

[michu]

New article about custom scenery. With printable Hammerhal emblem.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/10/03/building-the-cities-of-sigmargw-homepage-post-3/

Edited October 3, 2019 by michu

[stus67]

Anybody know of any good third party pieces for things like halberds and banners? The freeguild guard ones look like wet ass and I'm planning on doing a lot of conversions.

[Skreech Verminking]

10 minutes ago, stus67 said:

Anybody know of any good third party pieces for things like halberds and banners? The freeguild guard ones look like wet ass and I'm planning on doing a lot of conversions.

Stormvermin halberds, might be an idea if you like them

Edited October 3, 2019 by Skreech Verminking

[Duke of Gisoreux]

2 hours ago, Arkhanist said:

Codex isn't actually released until Saturday (my copy will likely arrive Monday-ish). I imagine warscroll builder will update soon after the official release.

What's a codex?

[zilberfrid]

58 minutes ago, stus67 said:

Anybody know of any good third party pieces for things like halberds and banners? The freeguild guard ones look like wet ass and I'm planning on doing a lot of conversions.

Demigryphs have nice halberds, though that may not be the most appealing pricepoint if you just need the halberds.

Greatswords have 2 banners per 10 models in their box

Edited October 3, 2019 by zilberfrid

[zilberfrid]

2 minutes ago, Duke of Gisoreux said:

What's a codex?

Codex is the 40k term for battletome, as I understand it.

[Duke of Gisoreux]

1 hour ago, stus67 said:

Anybody know of any good third party pieces for things like halberds and banners? The freeguild guard ones look like wet ass and I'm planning on doing a lot of conversions.

I don't like freeguild guard models at all. Luckily I'll have more than enough alternatives so I don't have to use them. Only have to rebase them to round bases.

[Turin Turambar]

12 minutes ago, Duke of Gisoreux said:

I don't like freeguild guard models at all. Luckily I'll have more than enough alternatives so I don't have to use them. Only have to rebase them to round bases.

the boys are back in town

[schwabbele]

Excitement ensues, on the way to the store picking up the tome 😍

[Double Misfire]

Completely anecdotal, but I just caught up with my local GW manager who told me that preorders for the CoS battletome to the store were almost twice that of the recent Space Marine codex. 😳

Probably restricted to folks from my tiny corner of the UK having such good taste, but I figured it was still worth passing on. Wonder if GW will notice the hype CoS is getting sans any actual releases...

[swarmofseals]

On 10/2/2019 at 6:22 AM, JackStreicher said:

Which is bad practice for a company as huge as GW since it gives them the reputation of being sloppy or not caring while also scaring off customers which grow weary of that sloppiness (and the constant power spiral)

they really should have a sceptical Person have a look at their warscrolls before finalizing them (like @swarmofseals who can calculate and adapt unit pricing pretty nicely).

as it stands they don‘t put much or enough effort in making the game as good as it could be.

You mentioned me, so I kinda feel the need to step in and direct you to this post: 

I can't really speak to GW's pre-publication process for battletomes, but I am confident that the idea that they aren't putting effort in is just false. 

I have to admit I haven't followed the discussion super closely, so I'm not sure exactly what comments prompted your post. A brief glance though has shown some people calling for point reductions and saying that various things are overcosted etc.

If that's your concern, I can say with a reasonable degree of confidence that I would not have shared it if I were providing feedback on this book. I actually think that the basic pointing of the units in this book is about as good as I have seen in any tome. There are a few warscrolls that I'd change, but for the most part the internal balance is remarkable given how many warscrolls there are. 

Even when you factor in the various non-allegiance buffs things are quite tight:

Dispossessed have access to +1A in melee, a rr1s to wound bubble, and -1 rend

Freeguild have access to a +1H in melee bubble and a +1H+1W that requires units to be stationary

Wanderers have access to a +1H bubble and a spell that grants cover and MW reflection

Scourge Privateers have access to +1A in melee

Phoenix Temple has access to a rr to wound bubble

Order Serpentis has access to a +1W bubble

Darkling Covens have access to run and shoot/charge and rr1s to wound

These sets of abilities are mostly equivalent, with a couple subsets having a bit more to work with than others. The only faction that I think is a little lower than the others is Darkling Covens, and I think they might stand to get a little more help. 

 

In terms of city vs. city, I also think things are pretty balanced there. Every single city has some very powerful abilities and I think they all can be viable competitively. I do think that a couple cities stand out a bit as likely being better, and there is some chance that Hallowheart is broken. But overall the balance is MUCH better than most books where typically only 1-2 of the "city/temple/etc." choices are even remotely viable. 

 

Overall, I'm much more concerned about this book being overpowered than underpowered but it's not the kind of thing that is just obvious from the numbers. 

 

[stus67]

Why would you think it can be overpowered @swarmofseals?

Edited October 3, 2019 by stus67