AoS 2 - Cities of Sigmar Discussion

[Frowny]

Some thing that stand out to me

Stormcast + hallowheart. Stormcast don't have any innate buffs to cast but here you can easily get +A lot. 

Living city+gyrobombers. You can use the command trait for an extra move, not only giving enormous map preassure but you can also double bomb something. 6d3mw will cripple many targets. Probably a suicide mission though.

eternal guard +sisters of thorn: 2+ save if stationary. Maybe use to make a hallowheart bunker for all your wizards.

Living city spell + Frost heart pheonix: -2 to wound is pretty tasty. 

Demigryphs+ hammerhal. They hit really hard on the charge. So people my want to hit them to stop the charge. But then you are engaged in the hero phase and can command point to free yourself up. Still pretty killy not on the charge too.

Knight azyros+ outriders with tempest eye +1 wound item Fast enough to actually keep up with them. Rr1s and +1 wound are both nice. Or you could go nuts and give everything to a hurricanum for +1/+1. 

Celestial hurricanum+everything. This is going to be allied everywhere. Good spell,+1 hit bubble, storm is also great. It was strong early in aos, and even though the warscroll isn't changed much, the point drop is very strong.

 

Questions for you all:

Best city for tanks? Living city for the heal every turn or tempests eye to get them in position and make them extra sturdy turn 1? Or hallowheart for the spell shrug.... Ironically ironweld seems like nearly the worst.

Longbeards vs ironbreakers? Longbeards are slightly sturdier for their points but ironbreakers have an extra attack. Is +1 attack worth it for 20 points on what is fundamentally a wall/screen type troop? The grumble is fine but doesn't seem likely to make that much for difference. 

[Izotzuhure]

I think I really like the idea of a Hallowheart army. What do you think of the following ?:

Lord Arcanum with 4+ mortal wound save

3 battlemages as part of the battlalion

Frostphoenix with book and healing spell 

Gotrek

20 spearmen as retinue for the Lord Aecanum

2x 10 sword and shield guards

Umbral spellportals

Swords

Pendulum

Palisade 

Purple Sun

 

Between the CA and the battalion I should have an average of +4 to cast. I cast the portals, throw everything inside, and then, question time, could I disperse an Endless Spell casted in the same hero phase? Cause then I could give the general the +3 to disperse to ensure nothing comes back through them. 

Gotrek and The phoenix run to the points. I can use the Ghur spell to give Gotrek +2 to run and charge without affecting everyone. They should be able to put on a fight while the guard come from the back line to help contest objectives. 

I don't know, I like the idea of Gotrek and a self-healing phoenix fighting while endless spells wreck havoc around them with 9 spells per turn. 

The general should be a key target for the opponent, but with a +3/+4, LoS! and the retinue should survive quite well. I would also have ulgu and hysh plus the palisade for defense and affect their movement  

I've never played a heavy ES plus magic army, but this looks fun. 

 

Edited September 29, 2019 by Izotzuhure

[High Overlord Xenu]

Anyone know the exact wording of the "1 in 4" rule? There is currently some debate in my group whether a Tempest's Eye army could take two units of Handgunners, a unit of Liberators, and a unit of Arkanauts for example and have it be legal.

[zilberfrid]

2 minutes ago, High Overlord Xenu said:

Anyone know the exact wording of the "1 in 4" rule? There is currently some debate in my group whether a Tempest's Eye army could take two units of Handgunners, a unit of Liberators, and a unit of Arkanauts for example and have it be legal.

I'd think it works exactly like what allies now have, no need for a different wording, that said, I don't know whether that's a shared or seperate resource.

So

3 CoS +1 SC is legal, 3 CoS +1 KO is legal, but 2 CoS, 1 KO, 1 SC? I don't think so. I'd say 6 CoS + 1 SC +1 KO is legal, and 3 CoS 1 SC 1 KO is not.

[Duke of Gisoreux]

6 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

I'd think it works exactly like what allies now have, no need for a different wording, that said, I don't know whether that's a shared or seperate resource.

So

3 CoS +1 SC is legal, 3 CoS +1 KO is legal, but 2 CoS, 1 KO, 1 SC? I don't think so. I'd say 6 CoS + 1 SC +1 KO is legal, and 3 CoS 1 SC 1 KO is not.

You are wrong. RAW it's legal to have 2 CoS + 1 KO + 1 SC in a Tempest's Eye army or 2 CoS + 1 Sylvaneth + 1 SC in a Living City army.

[zilberfrid]

14 minutes ago, Duke of Gisoreux said:

You are wrong. RAW it's legal to have 2 CoS + 1 KO + 1 SC in a Tempest's Eye army or 2 CoS + 1 Sylvaneth + 1 SC in a Living City army.

Ok, carry on then.

[Olmdebil]

would also love to know it for sure , how this "1 Out of 4" thingi works , as i didnt own that much CoS units

[Mutton]

Ironbreakers are way too expensive. Compare their warscroll to regular Liberators (who are 100 and people still hardly use them), and Liberators are just flat better except for the Save. In a world with so many mortal wounds, +1 save doesn't do a lot of good. They needed some kind of extra ability to make them worth 130. And did they need to be +3, +4? They don't fill any role except for extremely expensive chaff.

Longbeards are the choice now. 20 points cheaper, can get the same 3+ Save, and can grumble.

[Thiagoma]

4 hours ago, eciu said:

Does the artifact which allows hero to cast spell also give him WIZARD tag ?

Nope, just the cast.

[Popisdead]

56 minutes ago, Duke of Gisoreux said:

You are wrong. RAW it's legal to have 2 CoS + 1 KO + 1 SC in a Tempest's Eye army or 2 CoS + 1 Sylvaneth + 1 SC in a Living City army.

woah, chill a bit.  First off, you have not read the rules.  So not sure what rules you are quoted as having been written.  We have a guy reading stuff on youtube.  Also RAI and RAW are dumb terms people use to bend rules.  they are the same thing.  The designer intended for the rule to be written as they did.  

41 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

Ok, carry on then.

hahaha.

 

[PraetorDragoon]

What are peoples opinions on Helstorm Rocket Batteries? I was thinking to include some Ironweld to support the Anvilgard SC.

[Nasnad]

What do you all think of black guards, and dreadspears/bleakswords/darkshards? .. Also how are dark riders vs pistolers and outriders?

[eciu]

24 minutes ago, Thiagoma said:

Nope, just the cast.

No crazy Wizard Steam Tank ;(

[Luke.w]

Fairly optimized Hallowheart list:

Anointed on Frostheart Phoenix  320

Celestial Hurricanum with battlemage   280
-Ignax's Scales
-Sear Wounds
-Elemental Cyclon  

Battlemage; Hysh  90
-Roaming Wildfire
-Warding Brand

Battlemage; Ghyran  90
-Ignite Weapons
-Crystal Aegis

Sorceress  90
-Sear Wounds
-Ignite Weapons

Knight-Azyros  100

10 Freeguild Guard  80

10 Freeguild Guard  80

20 Phoenix Guard  320

3 Vanguard-Palladors  180

10 Shadow Warriors

Prismatic Palisade  30

Umbral Spellportal  70

Aethervoid Pendulum  50

Gemenids of Uhl-Gysh  60

Emerald Lifeswarm  50


2000/2000

Thoughts? The plan is to sit back 12-18" from the enemy and throw spells into the backline. Phoenix temple units provide a solid, healing wall and the layers of debuffs should neutralise most melee threats. the guard can chaff the flanks whilst the palladors and shadow warriors can pick-off weakened support and grab objectives.

[Frowny]

47 minutes ago, Mutton said:

Ironbreakers are way too expensive. Compare their warscroll to regular Liberators (who are 100 and people still hardly use them), and Liberators are just flat better except for the Save. In a world with so many mortal wounds, +1 save doesn't do a lot of good. They needed some kind of extra ability to make them worth 130. And did they need to be +3, +4? They don't fill any role except for extremely expensive chaff.

Longbeards are the choice now. 20 points cheaper, can get the same 3+ Save, and can grumble.

Ironbreakers have 2 attacks each, making then nearly twice as killy as liberators. And a 3+ save to liberators 4+ rr1s, so they are sturdier as well. and 10 bodies for objectives and smaller bases so you can easily fight in 2 ranks. Not saying they are perfect but I think you are missing something

[Mutton]

1 minute ago, Frowny said:

Ironbreakers have 2 attacks each, making then nearly twice as killy as liberators. And a 3+ save to liberators 4+ rr1s, so they are sturdier as well. and 10 bodies for objectives and smaller bases so you can easily fight in 2 ranks. Not saying they are perfect but I think you are missing something

Liberators also have 2 attacks each. Ironbreakers are barely sturdier, and no more sturdier against mortals, which like I said, are everywhere. Liberators also get grand hammers and Lay Low the Tyrants. And remember, nobody even uses Liberators. Regardless, 130 is simply too much for a unit that does no damage and will die in droves to any kind of mortal wound ability/spell.

[The Merchant Prince]

4 hours ago, zilberfrid said:

Ah, that's too bad. Great companies, I hardly knew ye.

So locked in with this then. More choice in rulesets, none in realms.

I don't know. This is called Cities of Sigmar, not Cities of Sigmar; Aqshy and Ghyran.

Maybe Lethis and Excelsior get a White Dwarf, but seeing as there is no new plastic, I don't expect any commitment from GW.

No, you can only choose Aqshy or Ghyran.

Yeah considering FP lose access to the GHB allegiance ability, we really should have access to any realm artifact-wise

[Mandzak-Miniatures]

I’d like to know a little more about the HallowHeart battalion.

• +1 to cast and unbinding rolls if they're within 6" of a friendly wizard from this battalion.

How does this exactly work? If you are already sinking points to have 2-4 wizards in this group is it really worth it? That is if it doesn’t just work on the wizard unit themselves?

what is everyone’s thoughts about the HallowHeart magic resistance save roll?

I am seeing more people include lord arcanum as generals, can we take any of the stormcast heroes/ characters as heroes/generals (provided it’s not specific to one particular city)?

[Frowny]

You get 10 ironbreakers models for 130. You only get 5 liberators models. It's the same wounds but liberators get 10 attacks while the ironbreakers get 20. Even with the grandhammer ironbreakers win easily

[Galamund]

1 hour ago, PraetorDragoon said:

What are peoples opinions on Helstorm Rocket Batteries? I was thinking to include some Ironweld to support the Anvilgard SC.

I am very, very interested in this subject. I ran 3 before and really liked them and want to continue doing so.

They're FAR more durable now, since your crew can't get sniped away by a stiff breeze. That balances out the substantial loss in damage output. d6 was swingy but when it worked, it worked. The loss of Ignore LOS is actually worse I think, since they're now a harder unit to use.

I was thinking of using them in a pure gunline Greywater Fastness list. 3 of them in the Battalion with a Cogsmith (required for the Battalion) and a Hurricanum (auto-include unit now imho) nearby give a hell of a alpha strike: 18 shots hitting on 3sRR1 on the first turn at 39", which does 10-12 wounds to something with a 4+ invul save. With a bit of luck it can one-shot a KoS!

[Acid_Nine]

Alright, Second try on an elf hammer hall list using points I know for sure (kinda) for this.

General: annointed -100pts

Lieutenant: sorceress- 90pts

Annointed on Frostheart phoenix: 320pts

Annointed on Firepheonix: 300pts

 

Battle line 1: x20 phoenix Guard- 320pts

Battle line 2: x20 Phoenix Guard- 320pts

Battle line 3: x10 phoenix Guard-160pts

battle line 4: x10 darkshards- 100pts

battle line 5: x10 darkshards- 100pts 

battle line 6: x20 bleakspears- 180pts

________________________________________

 

Okay, so not sure how this would do. I got a good base of a lot of pheonix guard,  some extras just in case, a lot of darkshard shooting  and a lot of banners to try and get command points to boost everyone's ability. not a lot of magic, I admit, but I got fast units to try and get the most out of hammerhall's command abilities in the phoenix, and plenty of bodies to throw around.

 

[Undeadly]

1 hour ago, Nasnad said:

What do you all think of black guards, and dreadspears/bleakswords/darkshards? .. Also how are dark riders vs pistolers and outriders?

They're intresting, and while not super impressive at first, they can do some good stuff. Black Guard are probably the most killiest of the 4 Elite Swordsmen, beating out Great Swords due to their 2" range. They may not have the crazy survivability of Phoenix Guard, they 

Executioners are just kinda rubbish now, since they lost half their MW output, leaving them as weaker Greatblades. They are just flat out bad.

 

Dreadspears and swords aren't terrible, they have a bit more offense and defense when unbuffed then their Freeguild Guard counter parts, but lack the killing power that they can get from Freeguild General, Size bonuses and Halberds.  Dreads won't be beating them in combat, but that 4+ save and extra 1" 

Bleakshards are fantastic in my opinion; they are one of the few archer units to have a base 2, and a decent stat of +4(+3 if at 10+)/4+ which can be buffed up via spells and abilities. That means you can actually move and reposition them, instead of leaving them as a static firing position. When combined with the Sorceress' CA that lets them run, they can actually cover a lot of distance and lay down a lot of fire power.

Dark Riders are a bit tougher, with a 4+ save vs the pistoliers. While Pistoliers are better for running down dying units and finishing off, while the Outsiders are better for picking off some wounds here and there. Dark Riders are better at melee on the charge, and are a bit faster.  They can sorta act like a poor man's Eel, since they do get 2 damage on the charge, as well 15 rather crummy shots.

 

 

[spenson]

27 minutes ago, Acid_Nine said:

Okay, so not sure how this would do. I got a good base of a lot of pheonix guard,  some extras just in case, a lot of darkshard shooting  and a lot of banners to try and get command points to boost everyone's ability. not a lot of magic, I admit, but I got fast units to try and get the most out of hammerhall's command abilities in the phoenix, and plenty of bodies to throw around.

 

I think it's a bit of a shame not to take the 60 points discount for the max size unit of phoenix guards.

Did you choose a city yet? Living City is one of the best in my opinion if your general is an anointed on phoenix. The command trait to give +1 save (and +1 to wound) is awesome and their spell lore is my favorite.  There's nothing like having a frostheart phoenix with -2 to wound and a 2+/4++ save.

Otherwwise I'd probably play Hammerhal. Blood of the Twelve (one the battlemage if he's your general because the anointed already has his CA) or academic prodigy on the anointed and Twinstone give massive buff to your units. The battle traits are also very cool. If you use the anointed CA, your phoenix guards will be 2" / 2+ / 3+ (rerolling) / rend 1 / damage 1. Wow.

I will probably try Living city with Drycha vs Hammerhal with an anointed (general) and a battlemage.

Edited September 29, 2019 by spenson

[Knight Scáthach of Fimm]

Something I've noticed is that, while the lines between factions are blurred, I think there's a clear representation of all the old factions in each city. Hammerhal for example clearly is suited to Freeguild, specifically fielding lots of infantry, the Demigryph highlights/ battalion, and that the traits and items look to favor the Griffon general. Living City is clearly about Wanderers, even though, like all cities you can take anything you want. Greywater is all about dwarfs and their guns. Phoenicieum... I don't need to explain that one. Anvilgard, anything dark elf. Hallowheart and Tempests Eye are a little more blurred, but to me it's clear that the cities really are representing each faction, even though the stamp of 'take anything' is there. Hell, doesn't Greywater even get a Runesmith prayer?

The old faction allegiance abilities are here in a new form one way or another, it's just which city you pick corrosponds to which faction is the star of the show. I think this is a good way of looking at it when some people call it soup, or a cheap filler to stop old army players complaining.

[spenson]

31 minutes ago, Undeadly said:

Bleakshards are fantastic in my opinion; they are one of the few archer units to have a base 2, and a decent stat of +4(+3 if at 10+)/4+ which can be buffed up via spells and abilities. That means you can actually move and reposition them, instead of leaving them as a static firing position. When combined with the Sorceress' CA that lets them run, they can actually cover a lot of distance and lay down a lot of fire power.

My issue with the Darkshards is that they don't compare very favorably against the shadow warriors. The darkshards are 2 shots 3+/4+/- while the shadow warriors can easily be 1 shot 2+/3+/-1. The darkshards may deal a tiny bit more damage and are slightly cheaper but they can't deapstrike. As you said, the darkshards will require the sorceress CA if you have the first turn and want to shoot.

7 minutes ago, Knight Scáthach of Fimm said:

Something I've noticed is that, while the lines between factions are blurred, I think there's a clear representation of all the old factions in each city. Hammerhal for example clearly is suited to Freeguild, specifically fielding lots of infantry, the Demigryph highlights/ battalion, and that the traits and items look to favor the Griffon general. Living City is clearly about Wanderers, even though, like all cities you can take anything you want. Greywater is all about dwarfs and their guns. Phoenicieum... I don't need to explain that one. Anvilgard, anything dark elf. Hallowheart and Tempests Eye are a little more blurred, but to me it's clear that the cities really are representing each faction, even though the stamp of 'take anything' is there. Hell, doesn't Greywater even get a Runesmith prayer?

The old faction allegiance abilities are here in a new form one way or another, it's just which city you pick corrosponds to which faction is the star of the show. I think this is a good way of looking at it when some people call it soup, or a cheap filler to stop old army players complaining.

You can clearly see the "intended" distribution of factions in the composition of the battalions. Hallowheart is collegiate arcane and tempests eye is Free People/KO.

 

Edited September 29, 2019 by spenson