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Just having some thoughts with these points for a Greywater Army, no idea what will be competitive but

Steamtank Commander (250)
Cogsmith (60)
Cogsmith (60)
Runelord (90)

Hurricanum (no Wiz) (220)
Gyrocopter x 2 (140)
Irondrake x 10 (150)
Irondrake x 10 (150)
Steamtank (200)
Steamtank (200)
Hellblaster Volley Gun (120)
Hellblaster Volley Gun (120)
Hellblaster Volley Gun (120)

Greywater Artillery Company (120)

Thats 2000 on the nose with a whole lot of shooty, still need to go through the tome properly to see what artefacts and so on youd give. But it looks fun.

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So, after viewing the video review of the COS battletome; I feel like those battalions aren't great, except one or two. The Hammerhalian Lancers for ex is very disapointing.
It's not enough mix and match for me. It would have been great for ex to be able to run SCE cavalry inside this battalion.

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Yeah the battlions are take it or live it. The white flame one which is most interesting to me, lets you get +1 to cast for all the wizards if they a near by, but the command ability they have can already get you up to like +6 potentially. That said it could take 3-5 drops off the top of your army. 


I do wonder how battlemages will work with being in cities. The way i'm hearing the rules i feel like they still can pic thier own realm?? Seems like it needs and faq

Edited by mmimzie
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RE: point costs. Just highlighting changes only:

Dispossessed:

Longbeards+10 same cost at max size.

Runelord+10

Warden King+10

IronBreakers -10

Irondrakes -30

Free Peoples:

General on Griffon +40

Demigryph Knights +50

Greatswords +40

Outriders/Pistoliers -20

Ironweld:

Hellblaster -40

Helstorm -50

Steam Tank -40

Cogsmith -40

Gyrobomber same base price, but can be taken in a unit of 3 with -30 cost

Gyrocoptor -10 and horde discount giving another -30 for 3.

Order Serpentis:

Dreadlord on Black Dragon -20

Drakespawn Knights +50

Phoenix Temple:

Fire Phoenix -80

Ice Phoenix  -20

Anointed +20

Hero Flame Phoenix -60

Phoenix Guard +20

Scourge Privateers:

Kharibdyss +20

Fleetmaster +20

Scourgerunner Chariot -20

Shadowblades:

Dark Riders -10

Shadow Warriors -50

Wanderers:

Nomad Prince +40

Eternal Guard +60

Sisters of the Thorn -80

Wild Riders +20

Wildwood Rangers +10

Collegiate Arcane:

Hurricanum -80

Luminark -50

Battlemage -90

Battlemage on Griffon+60

Hurricanum with Mage -100

Luminark with Mage +30

Darkling Coven:

Sorceress -10

Sorceress on Black Dragon +40

Black Guard Excecutioners-30

 

So taking a broad perspective, realizing I haven't analyzed every warscroll...

Dispossessed largely got streamlined warscrolls and sideways buffs at best and that's reflected in their models getting mostly minor adjustments save for Irondrakes which went down considerably.

Free People's got some big buffs tied to big point swings, and some smaller buffs on units that either stayed the same or went down slightly. Overall they are looking pretty solid.

Ironweld got huge price cuts and buffed units, which they desperately needed. That Steam tank is so tempting now...

Serpentis got some nice buffs to Cavalry (priced to match) along with a solid upgrade on the Dragonlord

Phoenix Temple finally got those huge price drops on Flame Phoenixes they needed along with a solid suite of buffs. Phoenix Guard more expensive but they were always underpriced before and the rend is a totally worthwhile trade.

Someone apparently thinks Scourge is totally fine because they were barely touched. Mind my gripe with them is less their effectiveness (Those Pirates are priced the same as naked human fanatics/martyrs) as it is just how awful their stats are for such cool looking models. They are the hordiest Aelf subfaction of all time!

Shadow Warriors didn't just join Shadowblades, they took it over. 110 points is cheap for what those guys can do.

Wanderers were headed full tilt towards the Horde path, so I'm happy and relieved to see Eternal Guard and Wild Riders restored closer to what they used to be. Overall a really nice set of buffs and the price adjustments are reasonable.

Collegiate Arcane, again a lot of badly needed price drops along with overall pretty good warscroll changes. With the dearth of generic wizards available to most of the remaining subfactions and the huge endless spell buff I think the battlemage pack is a no-brainer for basically anyone looking at Cities.

Darkling Covens:

Little adjustments, prices mostly not touched. Executioners appear to have gone head  to head with Greatswords and then the Greatswords reminded Sam Pearson that they are on the cover so they got to be the elite Two-handed sword dudes and Executioners got a courtesy point-drop instead.

Edited by madmac
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5 minutes ago, madmac said:

Serpentis got some nice buffs to Cavalry (priced to match) along with a solid upgrade on the Dragonlord

I just did the comparios for the Dragonlord and wonder a bit about the "solid upgrade" 😮 It lost the morale immunity bubble and the decreasing stats table went worse, triggering now much faster. The CA is a nice rework and the weapon improvements, too, althrough for the shield it really depends if +1 to save is an improvement over the reroll.

Therefore I have the subtle feeling of eithermissing something or beeing too strickt on those changes

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Just now, Charleston said:

I just did the comparios for the Dragonlord and wonder a bit about the "solid upgrade" 😮 It lost the morale immunity bubble and the decreasing stats table went worse, triggering now much faster. The CA is a nice rework and the weapon improvements, too, althrough for the shield it really depends if +1 to save is an improvement over the reroll.

Therefore I have the subtle feeling of eithermissing something or beeing too strickt on those changes

No you're probably right, Serpentis and Coven I've only glanced over and I don't have much familiarity with their prior versions so that is where my analysis is most shallow.

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I tried to read the pages on the video, but couldn't find it (and the text is pretty hard to read); are there restrictions on paint schemes and city allegiances?

In Firestorm (which these city traits seem to be largely based on), you needed to paint your units with the specific scheme of a given city to use that city's rules. They then loosened them so you could use any city rules to represent your own custom city (and paint scheme) but an army painted as Hallowheart, for instance, couldn’t use the rules of Anvilgard, and vice versa.

Just wondering how much, if any of that made it into the new book.

 

 

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Quote

Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar
CityThe Phoenicum

Leaders
Anointed of Asuryan on Flamespyre Phoenix (300)
- General
- Command Trait: One with Fire and Ice
- Artefact of Power: Phoenix Pyre Ashes
- The Phoenicum Spell Lore: Golden Mist

Anointed of Asuryan on Frostheart Phoenix (320)

Anointed of Asuryan on Frostheart Phoenix (320)

Luminark of Hysh With White Battlemage (270)
- The Phoenicum Spell Lore: Golden Mist

Battlemage (90)
- Realm: Ghur
- The Phoenicum Spell Lore: Golden Mist

Battlemage (90)
- Realm: Azyr
- The Phoenicum Spell Lore: Golden Mist

Battleline
10 x Phoenix Guard (160)
10 x Phoenix Guard (160)
10 x Phoenix Guard (160)

Battalions
Phoenix Flight (130)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 87 (+3 = 90)
 

I feel like this would be a pretty solid (Maybe not A-tier, but solid) list. Your Phoenixes have 13 wounds each, with a 4+/4++ base, and the Luminark grants another 6++ in its bubble. With the Thermalrider Cloak, it can hopefully keep up with the Phoenixes and provide support while the Phoenix Guard protect it.

Edit: scratch that, wrong realm. Will figure second artefact out later, or if it's now worth it to get more models instead of a battalion.

The Battlemages are there to make sure there're enough casters to keep the +1 to save benefit up on the Phoenixes, and there's two Frosthearts to ensure they can cover enough ground with their -1 wound bubbles.

The main question is whether (to maximise the benefit from the Phoenicum vengeance trait), I should drop some Phoenix Guard in favour of Freeguild Guard... and what to replace that with, if anything.

(There's a lot of duplication of Golden Mist because quite frankly that's the only spell in that lore worth taking, even if I can't cast it more than once per hero phase, it's still totally worth it)

Edited by Rentar
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7 minutes ago, Rentar said:

I feel like this would be a pretty solid (Maybe not A-tier, but solid) list. Your Phoenixes have 13 wounds each, with a 4+/4++ base, and the Luminark grants another 6++ in its bubble. With the Thermalrider Cloak, it can hopefully keep up with the Phoenixes and provide support while the Phoenix Guard protect it.

The Battlemages are there to make sure there're enough casters to keep the +1 to save benefit up on the Phoenixes, and there's two Frosthearts to ensure they can cover enough ground with their -1 wound bubbles.

The main question is whether (to maximise the benefit from the Phoenicum vengeance trait), I should drop some Phoenix Guard in favour of Freeguild Guard... and what to replace that with, if anything.

(There's a lot of duplication of Golden Mist because quite frankly that's the only spell in that lore worth taking, even if I can't cast it more than once per hero phase, it's still totally worth it)

i dont know which realm the thermalrider cloak comes from or any of the realm artifacts as i general just limit myself to one and don't gotta think about it, but each city is limited to what realm artifacts they can take. Depending on what city they are from. 

There is abit of a question about if the battlemage can take whatever spell they want or if the city will force you to take one. Looking at the rules i don't think it matters but we don't know for sure. 

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1 minute ago, mmimzie said:

i dont know which realm the thermalrider cloak comes from or any of the realm artifacts as i general just limit myself to one and don't gotta think about it, but each city is limited to what realm artifacts they can take. Depending on what city they are from. 

There is abit of a question about if the battlemage can take whatever spell they want or if the city will force you to take one. Looking at the rules i don't think it matters but we don't know for sure. 

Oh wait the Phoenicum's in Ghyran, not Aqshy. Well. That changes things. I'll need to reconsider. 

I expect Battlemages will be able to pick both their realm and their lore. In either case, they fulfill their purpose of being a +1 save battery for the phoenixes.

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Living City seems VERY powerful with l it's buffs combined with an incredible spell lore/ traits/ artefacts.

The biggest boon to the cities is that anything in the book can be in any city (+ 1/4 Stormcast, + others depending on city) so you get a lot of flexibility.

Really liking Hallowheart as it has the magical focus I desire!  

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I think this will be the first list I'll try to run. Originally I wanted to do a cavalry only list but I think the retinue and adjunctanct rules are too good to give up.

 

City: Hammerhal Options Role Cost
       
Freeguild General   General 60
Battlemage Ghyran Adjunct 90
Freeguild General on Griffon Hammer   320
Celestial Hurricanum w/ Battlemage
    280
       
Demigryph Knights x6 Lances Battleline 360
Demigryph Knights x6 Lances Battleline 360
Demigryph Knights x3 Lances Battleline 180
Freeguild Handgunners x20   Retinue 200
       
Hammerhalian Lancers   Battalion 140
       
      1990
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2 hours ago, Duke of Gisoreux said:

I compiled the following list from the GMG review.

Helblaster Volley Gun 1 1 120 120 Artillery  
Helstorm Rocket Battery 1 1 130 130 Artillery  
Bleakswords 10 40 90 320 Battleline  
Darkshards 10 40 100 400 Battleline  
Dreadspears 10 40 90 320 Battleline  
Eternal Guard 10 30 130 330 Battleline  
Freeguild Crossbowmen 10 30 100 300 Battleline  
Freeguild Guard 10 40 80 280 Battleline  
Freeguild Handgunners 10 30 100 300 Battleline  
Ironbreakers 10 30 130 330 Battleline  
Longbeards 10 30 110 270 Battleline  
Anointed 1 1 100 100 Leader  
Assassin 1 1 80 80 Leader  
Battlemage 1 1 90 90 Leader  
Black Ark Fleetmaster 1 1 60 60 Leader  
Cogsmith 1 1 60 60 Leader  
Freeguild General 1 1 60 60 Leader  
Nomad Prince 1 1 120 120 Leader  
Runelord 1 1 90 90 Leader  
Sorceress 1 1 90 90 Leader  
Warden King 1 1 110 110 Leader  
Anointed on Flamespyre Phoenix 1 1 300 300 Leader, Behemoth  
Anointed on Frostheart Phoenix 1 1 320 320 Leader, Behemoth  
Battlemage on Griffon 1 1 300 300 Leader, Behemoth  
Celestial Hurricanum with Celestial Battlemage 1 1 280 280 Leader, Behemoth  
Dreadlord on Black Dragon 1 1 300 300 Leader, Behemoth  
Freeguild General on Griffon 1 1 320 320 Leader, Behemoth  
Luminark of Hysh with White Battlemage 1 1 270 270 Leader, Behemoth  
Sorceress on Black Dragon 1 1 300 300 Leader, Behemoth  
Steam Tank with Commander 1 1 250 250 Leader, Behemoth  
Celestial Hurricanum 1 1 220 220 Behemoth  
Flamespyre Phoenix 1 1 200 200 Behemoth  
Frostheart Phoenix 1 1 220 220 Behemoth  
Kharibdyss 1 1 170 170 Behemoth Battleline in ANVILGARD army
Luminark of Hysh 1 1 210 210 Behemoth  
Steam Tank 1 1 200 200 Behemoth Battleline in CITIES OF SIGMAR army if STEAM TANK HERO general
War Hydra 1 1 170 170 Behemoth Battleline in ANVILGARD army
Black Ark Corsairs 10 40 80 240   Battleline in CITIES OF SIGMAR army if SCOURGE PRIVATEERS general
Black Guard 10 30 120 320   Battleline in CITIES OF SIGMAR army if DARKLING COVEN general
Dark Riders 5 20 110 360   Battleline in CITIES OF SIGMAR army if SHADOWBLADE general
Demigryph Knights 3 12 180 720   Battleline in CITIES OF SIGMAR army if FREEGUILD general
Drakespawn Chariots 1 3 80 210   Battleline in CITIES OF SIGMAR army if ORDER SERPENTIS general
Drakespawn Knights 5 20 170 680   Battleline in CITIES OF SIGMAR army if ORDER SERPENTIS general
Executioners 10 30 130 330   Battleline in CITIES OF SIGMAR army if DARKLING COVEN general
Flagellants 10 40 80 280   Battleline in CITIES OF SIGMAR army if HUMAN general
Freeguild Greatswords 10 30 160 420   Battleline in CITIES OF SIGMAR army if FREEGUILD general
Freeguild Outriders 5 20 100 400   Battleline in TEMPEST'S EYE army
Freeguild Pistoliers 5 20 100 400   Battleline in TEMPEST'S EYE army
Gyrobombers 1 3 80 210    
Gyrocopters 1 3 70 180    
Hammerers 10 30 140 360   Battleline in CITIES OF SIGMAR army if DISPOSSESSED general
Irondrakes 10 30 150 450   Battleline in CITIES OF SIGMAR army if DUARDIN general
Phoenix Guard 10 30 160 420   Battleline in CITIES OF SIGMAR army if PHOENIX TEMPLE general
Scourgerunner Chariots 1 3 60 150   Battleline in CITIES OF SIGMAR army if SCOURGE PRIVATEERS general
Shadow Warriors 10 30 110 330   Battleline in CITIES OF SIGMAR army if SHADOWBLADE general
Sisters of the Thorn 5 20 130 520   Battleline in CITIES OF SIGMAR army if WANDERER general
Sisters of the Watch 10 20 160 320   Battleline in CITIES OF SIGMAR army if WANDERER general
Wild Riders 5 20 130 520    
Wildwood Rangers 10 30 130 390   Battleline in CITIES OF SIGMAR army if WANDERER general
             
             
Aetherguard Windrunners     120   Warscroll Battalion 1 TEMPEST'S EYE Freeguild General on Griffon, 3-6 units TEMPEST'S EYE Freeguild Outriders or Pistoliers, 0-2 TEMPEST'S EYE Grundstok Gunhaulers
Charrwind Beasthunters     120   Warscroll Battalion 1 ANVILGARD Black Ark Fleetmaster, 3 units ANVILGARD Black Ark Corsairs, 1-3 ANVILGARD Scourgerunner Chariots, 0-1 ANVILGARD Kharibdyss
Greywater Artillery Company     120   Warscroll Battalion 1 GREYWATER FASTNESS Cogsmith, 2-4 GREYWATER FASTNESS Helstorm Rocket Batteries or Helblaster Volley Guns
Hammerhalian Lancers     140   Warscroll Battalion 1 HAMMERHAL Freeguild General on Griffon, 3-6 units HAMMERHAL Demigryph Knights
Phoenix Flight     130   Warscroll Battalion 1-2 PHOENICIUM FROSTHEART PHOENIX, 1-2 PHOENICIUM FLAMESPYRE PHOENIX
Viridian Pathfinders     140   Warscroll Battalion 1 LIVING CITY Nomad Prince, 3 units LIVING CITY Wildwood Rangers, 0-1 unit LIVING CITY Wild Riders
Whitefire Retinue     140   Warscroll Battalion 2-4 HALLOWHEART HERO WIZARDS

Allies:
Daughters of Khaine, Fyreslayers, Idoneth Deepkin, Kharadron Overlords (except Tempest's Eye), Sylvaneth (except Living City and Greywater Fastness)

Freeguild general is 100 pts - he later corrects himself in the vid and its 100 pts in the app

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2 hours ago, mmimzie said:

good because hallow heart wizards are going to be nuts!!, command abilityl ets you roll a die, and your wizard takes that much damage, but every wizard within 12" gets that that much added to thier cast. ALso each hallow heart wizard gets +1 cast per turn. 

ALso allies confirmed. 

stormcast, slyvaneth, and KO are limited to 1/4th your army. 

In points or unit size? 500 points is very limiting for KO and that makes me quite sad

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I think kharadron overlords allies are going to be great. Grundstock thunderers seem notably better than irondrakes. 2 shots basic instead of one and you cold bring a khemist for the 3rd.

Big blocks of ironbreakers are also looking strong. Hard to shift. Up to 3 quality attacks. Carry other buffs well.

 

Combos I see

Sisters of thorn + ironbreakers is a 2+ wall

Tanks in a bubble around the general in tempests eye. 2+ save, +1 to wound, control the middle from turn 1 with a wall of armor.

 

Both wild riders and demigryph knights hit quite hard on the charge. So math will tell us which is better as a hammer. Demis are much sturdier though.

 

Winner seem to me like hammerhal (generally useful), tempests eye for a strong alph Nd resistance to enemy alphas. Halloheart for a blob of battlemages

Anvilguard and grey water fastness seem.

Pheoneciumhas some good builds but seems like really only the go to for spamming pheonixes. Maybe do some will figure out how to build around the +1/+1.

Not sure how to Interpret living cities. I play sylvaneth and aside from the hunters not too much seems better in a living city than in a sylvaneth army. Some great traits spells and artifacts though

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