AoS 2 - Cities of Sigmar Discussion

[Double Misfire]

52 minutes ago, kuroyume said:

There's already some vague hints that the Celestant-Prime could  be Karl Franz reforged.

Said hints are about as vague as the ones about the nature of Malekith and Morathi's relationship, though I think they're only intended for players, and not the populace of the Mortal Realms at large, I just meant establishing Karl Franz, in his mortal life as a saint posthumously revered by Sigmar's worshippers.

36 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

I think it was stated that he was a king from somewhere. Emperor and Prince, not king.

Hereditary-ruler-of-a-lot-of-land... I think if they'd outright named the prime as a former Emperor that would have been a brick over the head, even by the usual level of Warhammer subtlety. If you want to get really pedantic, the Elector Counts originated as the chiefs of the 12 tribes who swore loyalty to Sigmar to form what would become the Empire, and isn't a chieftain really just a Bronze Age king? 🤷‍♂️😉

[michu]

And IIRC it was written that he is NOT Karl Franz but unnamed ruler from the Mortal Realms.

[prochuvi]

My idea about the book is that gonna be as goblins book.where they have one alegiance skill for trolls,goblins,spiders etc.

We gonna get one alegiance with bonus to elfs,diferent bonus to dwarfs,humans etc and then we choose one city as tesmpest eye that gives us extra skills and so, same style that lodges for fyreslayers per example.

Btw im thinking what use gonna have my dragonlord if gonna be deleted,proxy of stardrak seems imposible due to smaller base,i guess a dark elf black dragon is the most similar model? Also i dont get as dragonlord is being deleted but black dragon no

[Thiagoma]

30 minutes ago, prochuvi said:

My idea about the book is that gonna be as goblins book.where they have one alegiance skill for trolls,goblins,spiders etc.

We gonna get one alegiance with bonus to elfs,diferent bonus to dwarfs,humans etc and then we choose one city as tesmpest eye that gives us extra skills and so, same style that lodges for fyreslayers per example.

Btw im thinking what use gonna have my dragonlord if gonna be deleted,proxy of stardrak seems imposible due to smaller base,i guess a dark elf black dragon is the most similar model? Also i dont get as dragonlord is being deleted but black dragon no

Most High Elf models can be used as their Dark counterparts. Dragon, charriot,  Spireguard, Swordmasters, and Reavers have dark elf equivalents on bases of the same size.

[Kamose]

11 hours ago, zilberfrid said:

I was converting 30 models to be militia, so that's a net loss. I liked the archers, and was trying to add them to cart but the stock was out before the site indicated as such.

You should use your 30 Freeguild Guard Militia conversions as Freeguild Guard models.  I also like the archers and it sucks that you couldn't snatch them before they sold out.  I'd keep an eye on eBay after this dies down.  The kit is very nice and worth having.

11 hours ago, zilberfrid said:

The bigger loss is of course the general. Nobody gives him a great weapon, so if that's the only option, general sniping (which already was prevalent) you lost one save and the war banner. And yeah, the general we kept is horrible.

GW has never promised to provide models that represent the best options in the current meta but Freeguild players have lots of shields laying around in their bitz box, so glue one to his arm.  However I will agree with you, that Empire Captain model is ugly.  😞

9 hours ago, zilberfrid said:

GW stated the units would go to legends, which means thier warscrolls will get canned.

Their warscrolls are moving to Warhammer Legends.  They are not being destroyed and the warscrolls will be available in a pdf on the Community page.  The units in Warhammer Legends will not receive points updates and warscroll updates and so will usually not be playable in current Matched Play tournaments (but that is really up to the TO).  The warscrolls are perfectly legal in Narrative and Open Play which is enjoyed by many more people that some folks want to admit. 😕

8 hours ago, Enochi said:

But the method should be by creating models that makes me want to buy them not saying I can't play with my current models anymore. 

Can someone point to me to a statement by GW saying that once a model is discontinued players may no longer use that model in their games?  I can understand if, at official GW events run at actual GW stores, they require people to play with current GW warscrolls, however that does not mean you cannot use your models.  For 9 years my FLGS was a GW store in NOVA (Northern Virginia). I don't recall the owner ever saying that we couldn't play with out of production GW models in the store. 
It is simply unrealistic to think that GW can continue to produce every model they've ever made.  Its really bad for business to make, ship, and store 1,000 Skycutter Chariot models in the hopes that someone might buy one of them some day.  Needless to say it makes even less sense to keep the molds tucked away in case Mr. Fuentes from Bumpass, VA (its a real place, look it up) just happens to order one 3 years down the line.

8 hours ago, Enochi said:

Sigh this is such a cluster ******. 
Honestly the "Best" time if GW wanted to can these units was back in when AoS 2.0 came out. People would have been mad but would have taken it as growing pains of a developing game.

This was never gonna go down well. There was never going to be a calm, reasonable reaction from the fan base over this.  I'm not sure why its impossible for consumers to be calm, reasonable, and reflective about what they want, but it certainly seems like it is.  GW absolutely could have communicated this better and kept us informed more regularly however this was gonna ****** off a lot of people regardless.  No amount of communication would've made cutting this many models anything but a fustercluck.  Honestly, I see this as a "rip the band-aid off" situation for them; its gonna suck so get it over with. 

Unfortunately, it seems my earlier plea to chill with the negativity and try to have a constructive discussion about something we enjoy has worn off during the last 24 hours.  So I suppose I'm outta here until the book drops.  Peace out and keep checking your blood pressure!   

 

[Thalassic Monstrosity]

That just makes any positivity and constructive discussion you have more valuable!

[zilberfrid]

10 hours ago, Kamose said:

You should use your 30 Freeguild Guard Militia conversions as Freeguild Guard models.  I also like the archers and it sucks that you couldn't snatch them before they sold out.  I'd keep an eye on eBay after this dies down.  The kit is very nice and worth having.

GW has never promised to provide models that represent the best options in the current meta but Freeguild players have lots of shields laying around in their bitz box, so glue one to his arm.  However I will agree with you, that Empire Captain model is ugly.  😞

Their warscrolls are moving to Warhammer Legends.  They are not being destroyed and the warscrolls will be available in a pdf on the Community page.  The units in Warhammer Legends will not receive points updates and warscroll updates and so will usually not be playable in current Matched Play tournaments (but that is really up to the TO).  The warscrolls are perfectly legal in Narrative and Open Play which is enjoyed by many more people that some folks want to admit. 😕

Can someone point to me to a statement by GW saying that once a model is discontinued players may no longer use that model in their games?  I can understand if, at official GW events run at actual GW stores, they require people to play with current GW warscrolls, however that does not mean you cannot use your models.  For 9 years my FLGS was a GW store in NOVA (Northern Virginia). I don't recall the owner ever saying that we couldn't play with out of production GW models in the store. 
It is simply unrealistic to think that GW can continue to produce every model they've ever made.  Its really bad for business to make, ship, and store 1,000 Skycutter Chariot models in the hopes that someone might buy one of them some day.  Needless to say it makes even less sense to keep the molds tucked away in case Mr. Fuentes from Bumpass, VA (its a real place, look it up) just happens to order one 3 years down the line.

This was never gonna go down well. There was never going to be a calm, reasonable reaction from the fan base over this.  I'm not sure why its impossible for consumers to be calm, reasonable, and reflective about what they want, but it certainly seems like it is.  GW absolutely could have communicated this better and kept us informed more regularly however this was gonna ****** off a lot of people regardless.  No amount of communication would've made cutting this many models anything but a fustercluck.  Honestly, I see this as a "rip the band-aid off" situation for them; its gonna suck so get it over with. 

Unfortunately, it seems my earlier plea to chill with the negativity and try to have a constructive discussion about something we enjoy has worn off during the last 24 hours.  So I suppose I'm outta here until the book drops.  Peace out and keep checking your blood pressure!   

 

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/Errata/AoS_Errata/warhammer_aos_order_en.pdf

In the FAQ, it was stated that an Empire cannon cannot be used as an Ironweld cannon. Since that is about the most direct proxy I can think of, they simply do not officially allow proxies. Now my current store does not have issues with it, but I don't like being at the whim of a manager change. I have stopped conversion for now, waiting for CoS what they will need to become.

My beef with the general was not mainly about having to use the current one, nobody will ever use the empire captain as a general. It is that the only reason for deleting the general could be deleted, is a warscroll nerf in CoS.

Though negative, I have seen very few people advocating literal torches and pitchforks. GW has done nothing about communication to soothe anything.

Anyway, who's up for a guessing game what the models will be that get replaced by new plastic at launch of CoS?

My picks:

• Empire captain
• Warden king
• Rune lord
• Sorceress

In the list, but on rounds in "Shadows over Hammerhall" (Loremaster too, so that was also sold in AoS branded boxes)

• Cogsmith 
• Black ark fleetmaster

This is for their modelled square bases, and for the Empire Captain because it needs to go.

Perhaps I get lucky, and the guard and crossbowmen sets get replaced by something more consistent with their factionmates. Less an overall, more a Landsknecht.

 

Edited August 7, 2019 by zilberfrid

[antoara]

58 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/Errata/AoS_Errata/warhammer_aos_order_en.pdf

In the FAQ, it was stated that an Empire cannon cannot be used as an Ironweld cannon. Since that is about the most direct proxy I can think of, they simply do not officially allow proxies. Now my current store does not have issues with it, but I don't like being at the whim of a manager change. I have stopped conversion for now, waiting for CoS what they will need to become.

My beef with the general was not mainly about having to use the current one, nobody will ever use the empire captain as a general. It is that the only reason for deleting the general could be deleted, is a warscroll nerf in CoS.

Though negative, I have seen very few people advocating literal torches and pitchforks. GW has done nothing about communication to soothe anything.

Anyway, who's up for a guessing game what the models will be that get replaced by new plastic at launch of CoS?

My picks:

Empire captain

Cogsmith

Warden king

Rune lord

Sorceress

Black ark fleetmaster

This is for their modelled square bases, and for the Empire Captain because it needs to go.

Perhaps I get lucky, and the guard and crossbowmen sets get replaced by something more consistent with their factionmates. Less an overall, more a Landsknecht.

 

I think that nomad prince too

[zilberfrid]

26 minutes ago, antoara said:

I think that nomad prince too

Nomad prince is a contender, but does not need the sculpted base to stand. The others do.

[Knight Scáthach of Fimm]

If we get a new model at all, it'll 99% be a mounted Freeguild General of some kind. They're the poster boys of the book, and there's a very puzzling void to fill, that being the loss of the mounted general kit (it being the superior kit in every possible way). People's thoughts on a Demigryph General seem accurate to GW's methods. I imagine the difference will be like: Loonboss, Loonboss on Squig, Loonboss on Mangler Squigs. That seems logical to me.

Alternatively, as someone pointed out, the Demigryph kit could be used like how Flesh Eater Courts works with Courtiers. It'd be better than nothing, and gives us lots of options when it comes to converting, because if there's something the Freeguild range is good at it's being modular and convertible.  If that's the case, then aside from having two spare Demigryphs, aesthetics shouldn't be an issue given how many left over bits we can work with from other kits.

[Enochi]

You know  I just realized I had 2 armies squatted in about a years time. My Order Draconis now and my Elysians last year. That's kinda depressing. 

[Double Misfire]

45 minutes ago, Knight Scáthach of Fimm said:

If we get a new model at all, it'll 99% be a mounted Freeguild General of some kind. They're the poster boys of the book, and there's a very puzzling void to fill, that being the loss of the mounted general kit (it being the superior kit in every possible way). People's thoughts on a Demigryph General seem accurate to GW's methods. I imagine the difference will be like: Loonboss, Loonboss on Squig, Loonboss on Mangler Squigs. That seems logical to me.

Alternatively, as someone pointed out, the Demigryph kit could be used like how Flesh Eater Courts works with Courtiers. It'd be better than nothing, and gives us lots of options when it comes to converting, because if there's something the Freeguild range is good at it's being modular and convertible.  If that's the case, then aside from having two spare Demigryphs, aesthetics shouldn't be an issue given how many left over bits we can work with from other kits.

A demigryph general would be neat. Can't imagine what I'd dig out to use as one... 🤷‍♂️

[zilberfrid]

4 minutes ago, Knight Scáthach of Fimm said:

If we get a new model at all, it'll 99% be a mounted Freeguild General of some kind. They're the poster boys of the book, and there's a very puzzling void to fill, that being the loss of the mounted general kit (it being the superior kit in every possible way). People's thoughts on a Demigryph General seem accurate to GW's methods. I imagine the difference will be like: Loonboss, Loonboss on Squig, Loonboss on Mangler Squigs. That seems logical to me.

Alternatively, as someone pointed out, the Demigryph kit could be used like how Flesh Eater Courts works with Courtiers. It'd be better than nothing, and gives us lots of options when it comes to converting, because if there's something the Freeguild range is good at it's being modular and convertible.  If that's the case, then aside from having two spare Demigryphs, aesthetics shouldn't be an issue given how many left over bits we can work with from other kits.

Yeah, the General can't stay, but I think the whole square base crew will also get something to be able to put them in stores. It could be a simple addition of a basing piece to get them to stand on a generic round (and put that round in the box, of course).

Whatever faction stays webstore exclusive is a doomed faction, and I don't think they'll put squares in the stores. 

I would not even mind only having a conversion set for generals. "Just use a Demigryph" works fine for serial converters like me, who have a lot of options to signify that it's a general, but I would prefer that general to have an official look, and for people that like building a set as-is it's a more reassuring way (also, I always want more parts).

A wild option would be to include standing legs and a Demigryph or gryph charger body in the General on Horse set, giving you all options, and provide three warscrolls for that. I would like that, but they won't do that.

[Thalassic Monstrosity]

I think that if we were getting new models (other than terrain and endless spells) we would have been given hints to lead with.

[zilberfrid]

2 hours ago, Thalassic Monstrosity said:

I think that if we were getting new models (other than terrain and endless spells) we would have been given hints to lead with.

I don't agree, we can't be left with the square bases.

[dekay]

2 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

I don't agree, we can't be left with the square bases.

Seraphon and Bonesplitters have been for a few years now.

[Cinncinnatus]

Is it possible that the new ogors box with the tyrant might feature cities of sigmar as the other half? I know a lot has been made of the pact of bones and the new death faction, but none of these limited battle boxes have featured wholly new factions before, just a new hero model. Given the cull, might be a good way to slip in a new cities free guild general or another hero type.

[Thalassic Monstrosity]

11 minutes ago, Cinncinnatus said:

Is it possible that the new ogors box with the tyrant might feature cities of sigmar as the other half? I know a lot has been made of the pact of bones and the new death faction, but none of these limited battle boxes have featured wholly new factions before, just a new hero model. Given the cull, might be a good way to slip in a new cities free guild general or another hero type.

That would be interesting!

[Skreech Verminking]

29 minutes ago, Cinncinnatus said:

Is it possible that the new ogors box with the tyrant might feature cities of sigmar as the other half? I know a lot has been made of the pact of bones and the new death faction, but none of these limited battle boxes have featured wholly new factions before, just a new hero model. Given the cull, might be a good way to slip in a new cities free guild general or another hero type.

It would be interesting, and maybe even possible.

afterall there talk about a certain pact and if I’m not mistaken, then Sigmar had one of the children and followers of Gork (or Mork) for a certain time.

thereS just one tiny problem.

the trailer specifically talks about a pact of bones, which is well something I am not sure has any relation with the free cities of Sigmar or any order army in total.

then again I’ve never heard that Nagash had a treaty with this brutal barbaric Ogres really!

[Double Misfire]

I've got a feeling that the Pact of Bones leading to the Feast of Bones ties into the Tithe of Bones, and the ogors vs boxset will see a tribe of  Gutbusters who'd previously had an arrangement with Nagash allowing them to brutalise and eat stuff wanton, on the condition that they leave the bones of whatever they've devoured behind for Nagash to use for whatever's going on in the Tithe of Bones video. Eventually the ogors get bored/greedy/complacent enough to break the pact and start snacking on the accumulated bones, leading to the feast.

 

Bones! 🦴🦴🦴

[Grailstorm]

On 8/7/2019 at 6:42 AM, zilberfrid said:

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/Errata/AoS_Errata/warhammer_aos_order_en.pdf

In the FAQ, it was stated that an Empire cannon cannot be used as an Ironweld cannon. Since that is about the most direct proxy I can think of, they simply do not officially allow proxies. Now my current store does not have issues with it, but I don't like being at the whim of a manager change. I have stopped conversion for now, waiting for CoS what they will need to become.

My beef with the general was not mainly about having to use the current one, nobody will ever use the empire captain as a general. It is that the only reason for deleting the general could be deleted, is a warscroll nerf in CoS.

Though negative, I have seen very few people advocating literal torches and pitchforks. GW has done nothing about communication to soothe anything.

Anyway, who's up for a guessing game what the models will be that get replaced by new plastic at launch of CoS?

My picks:

• Empire captain
• Warden king
• Rune lord
• Sorceress

In the list, but on rounds in "Shadows over Hammerhall" (Loremaster too, so that was also sold in AoS branded boxes)

• Cogsmith 
• Black ark fleetmaster

This is for their modelled square bases, and for the Empire Captain because it needs to go.

Perhaps I get lucky, and the guard and crossbowmen sets get replaced by something more consistent with their factionmates. Less an overall, more a Landsknecht.

 

You cannot FAQ conversions, regardless of what any document says.

You could easily make a cannon model using an Empire cannon and use it as an Ironweld cannon.

It’s no different to someone making an entire Skaven army where everything has a Kharadron theme. This got featured on the GW website and was played at GW tournaments.

[LeSwordfish]

6 minutes ago, Double Misfire said:

I've got a feeling that the Pact of Bones leading to the Feast of Bones ties into the Tithe of Bones, and the ogors vs boxset will see a tribe of  Gutbusters who'd previously had an arrangement with Nagash allowing them to brutalise and eat stuff wanton, on the condition that they leave the bones of whatever they've devoured behind for Nagash to use for whatever's going on in the Tithe of Bones video. Eventually the ogors get bored/greedy/complacent enough to break the pact and start snacking on the accumulated bones, leading to the feast.

 

Bones! 🦴🦴🦴

I was wondering if it was Ogors vs Orruks: they seem fairly likely to have a "pact" and are both upcoming releases that are good candidates for a box like this. Depends: I'm not sure if the rumor mill has presented much about a possible new skeleton army? There definitely seems to be a whole Thing on the horizon, but whether that's a new army, a Deathrattle release, or a narrative thing like Forbidden Power is anybody's guess for the moment.

[zilberfrid]

6 minutes ago, Grailstorm said:

You cannot FAQ conversions, regardless of what any document says.

You could easily make a cannon model using an Empire cannon and use it as an Ironweld cannon.

It’s no different to someone making an entire Skaven army where everything has a Kharadron theme. This got featured on the GW website and was played at GW tournaments.

Well, GW putting it out in a FAQ does give an air of ligitimacy, as this is also the place where official rules errata and clarifications end up. In its most generous form, it states "You must use the correct species for a unit" invalidating warriors as guard and thunderers as handgunners.

I agree that it's nonsense, but it is what's written.

[Skreech Verminking]

18 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

Well, GW putting it out in a FAQ does give an air of ligitimacy, as this is also the place where official rules errata and clarifications end up. In its most generous form, it states "You must use the correct species for a unit" invalidating warriors as guard and thunderers as handgunners.

I agree that it's nonsense, but it is what's written.

Well, I mean you could always take something out from the bitz box, like some kind of a free guild banners, or instrument and switch it out with the rune banner or instrument the thunderers technically have, and boom the unit is now converted which will allow you to take them as free people gunners or something.

And in the end probably nobody will complain because a converted model with small or big changes  is still a conversion.

 

Edited August 8, 2019 by Skreech Verminking

[Double Misfire]

28 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

 "You must use the correct species for a unit" invalidating warriors as guard and thunderers as handgunners.

Is there an especially high gravity part of Chamon? Just sayin'.