AoS 2 - Cities of Sigmar Discussion

[Raffonerd]

Warscroll changes will be there. Is reported in the WhC post by the author of the book.

[zilberfrid]

1 minute ago, Raffonerd said:

Warscroll changes will be there. Is reported in the WhC post by the author of the book.

Whelp, then we'll have to see how much room is left for the factions.

We have 87 listings in aelves, disposessed and free peoples. Say we have 7 doubles and 20 units are scrapped/condensed, we'll have 60 left. At three per page, we're looking at 20 pages.

Then let's say 15 batallions for another 5 pages.

 

[dekay]

Gloomspite Gits, as another tome with several sub-factions, needed around 60 pages for rules. They have 3 subfactions and 40 warscrolls.  The same with Skaven:  around 40 warscrolls + 5 subfactions and it takes more than 60 pages. We'll have 7 subfactions, and, currently, have around 90 warscrolls. Each warscroll takes either an entire page or a half. Being conservative here, Free Cities battletome would need 120 pages for rules alone. That's entirety of normal battletome, more or less. So Either our battletome is twice the size of others, or it will go through some serious culling process.

The huge one would be, of course, fun but what are the chances for it?

[zilberfrid]

14 minutes ago, dekay said:

Gloomspite Gits, as another tome with several sub-factions, needed around 60 pages for rules. They have 3 subfactions and 40 warscrolls.  The same with Skaven:  around 40 warscrolls + 5 subfactions and it takes more than 60 pages. We'll have 7 subfactions, and, currently, have around 90 warscrolls. Each warscroll takes either an entire page or a half. Being conservative here, Free Cities battletome would need 120 pages for rules alone. That's entirety of normal battletome, more or less. So Either our battletome is twice the size of others, or it will go through some serious culling process.

The huge one would be, of course, fun but what are the chances for it?

We have a picture showing a bit of the side, similar to a shot of Idoneth Deepkin, it seems a bit thicker, but not much. 175 pages is my high estimation.

I hope that is just an artist's impression. I like that GW acknowledges these armies exist, but am wary they will only do the barest minimum they need to toss out old molds before forgetting about us for the next three years.

[AlmGandix3]

Just look a the reflection of the warscroll card box, maybe they will make them mandatory and switch them over.

[Skreech Verminking]

4 minutes ago, AlmGandix3 said:

Just look a the reflection of the warscroll card box, maybe they will make them mandatory and switch them over.

Well if they’d sell them a bit longer then usually, I wouldn’t mind buying one, especially now looking at how big that book looks like 

[zilberfrid]

27 minutes ago, AlmGandix3 said:

Just look a the reflection of the warscroll card box, maybe they will make them mandatory and switch them over.

That would leave some room for the tome. Which certainly does not look that thick from this angle.

[dekay]

The tome looks pretty much standard, however it would be downright *weird* if they changed the battletome layout in the middle of edition... No way do know it yet, though, so let's concentrate on what we know:

If the card box is not a mock up and it is indeed its final size, it's around [ha, background in game publishing comes in handy for once] 60-70 card box? Possibly the same size they use for 40k datacards [it seems similarily constructed anyway] and they tend to come in numbers around 65. Hard to judge by reflection alone.  We need to squeeze token sheets into it as well, probably. And possibly endless spells, though I'm not sure if we're getting those.

 

Correction:

the highest number of 40k datacards they put into one box as of now seems to be 78. In such case, it would mean we're keeping most of the warscrolls, so one might hope.

Edited July 25, 2019 by dekay

[Charlo]

In terms of allegiance abilities, battleline and allies, based on other tomes I think it will look something like this:

Allegiance: The City you are from. This will no doubt have a unique allegience ability, a mandatory artefact, command trait, command abilitiy for you to use. What keywords you can take will depend on the city. There will not be unique allegiances for Free Peoples/ Disspossesed/ Wanderers etc in this book, if you want those you'll have to play those armies as purely that keyword.

Battleline: I think having "battleline if general is X" is probably too much to factor in on top of cities restrictions, basic battleline etc. I think to maximise the fluff and ease of use, you'll have differing batteline depending purely on the city. So the Phoenecium may have Phoenix Guard and Dwarf Warriors, whereas Hammerhaal will be very open.

Allies: similar to Death, the subfactions (collegiate arcane, free peoples etc) will remain and those allegiances will be the same. Cities will never be a full ally in themselves as they cover too much, however cities will be able to take certain allies depending on the city. Alternatively, they may just say no allies but instead the rules for adding Stormcast/ Kharadron etc and those gaining the city allegiences makes up for it.

[zilberfrid]

9 minutes ago, dekay said:

The tome looks pretty much standard, however it would be downright *weird* if they changed the battletome layout in the middle of edition... No way do know it yet, though, so let's concentrate on what we know:

If the card box is not a mock up and it is indeed its final size, it's around [ha, background in game publishing comes in handy for once] 60-70 card box? Possibly the same size they use for 40k datacards [it seems similarily constructed anyway] and they tend to come in numbers around 65. Hard to judge by reflection alone.  We need to squeeze token sheets into it as well, probably. And possibly endless spells, though I'm not sure if we're getting those.

 

Correction:

the highest number of 40k datacards they put into one box as of now seems to be 78. In such case, it would mean we're keeping most of the warscrolls, so one might hope.

We haven't had a tome trying to cram what now are some 80 unique unit warscrolls in one book.

Skaven "only" has 36, so this book would need to fit almost double that (considering some units are going to go).

Since unit warscrolls are a free resource, they need not put them in the book, and I'd rather they just gave instructions to look up the latest version.

[zilberfrid]

8 minutes ago, Charlo said:

In terms of allegiance abilities, battleline and allies, based on other tomes I think it will look something like this:

Allegiance: The City you are from. This will no doubt have a unique allegience ability, a mandatory artefact, command trait, command abilitiy for you to use. What keywords you can take will depend on the city. There will not be unique allegiances for Free Peoples/ Disspossesed/ Wanderers etc in this book, if you want those you'll have to play those armies as purely that keyword.

Battleline: I think having "battleline if general is X" is probably too much to factor in on top of cities restrictions, basic battleline etc. I think to maximise the fluff and ease of use, you'll have differing batteline depending purely on the city. So the Phoenecium may have Phoenix Guard and Dwarf Warriors, whereas Hammerhaal will be very open.

Allies: similar to Death, the subfactions (collegiate arcane, free peoples etc) will remain and those allegiances will be the same. Cities will never be a full ally in themselves as they cover too much, however cities will be able to take certain allies depending on the city. Alternatively, they may just say no allies but instead the rules for adding Stormcast/ Kharadron etc and those gaining the city allegiences makes up for it.

Hmm. So nothing in it that would make it a battletome for the old factions, just a reshuffle if you use city as allegiance?

I see this as a possibility, just a highly undesirable one.

[Popisdead]

On 7/23/2019 at 4:05 PM, Cambot1231 said:

All this talk of Glade Guard being removed... don't forget destruction still have old models like  Shootas and Stabbas in their line.  Also weird that they would repackage Glade Guard only to retire them less than a year later.  Lastly they have been the  only basic battleline choice for Wanderers and there will be somewhat of an outcry from all 25 of us that play them if they do get squatted. 🌲🦌🌳🏹

I think the Greenskinz argument pretty much nullifies this counter argument.  No one who plays Wanderers is taking 3 units of GG.  Sisters of the Watch are far better and BL with a Waywatcher hero which everyone has at least 1-3 of.   I'm not saying it will happen at this release but don't go buy 90.

Also my next game of AoS will have a large unit of Wardancers as a generic Order army.  I don't get hung up on needing to only play bleeding edge matched play.  I have models I really love that I use that I have found a use for in my army (hint, Shield of Thorn and +2 to save).  Just because something is moved to Index doesn't mean it isn't playable.  I played Tomb Kings 2 weeks ago.  People have to stop letting tournament lists dictate their gaming.  There are a lot of ancillary bonuses to be had with realm items and spells.   

1 hour ago, Raffonerd said:

Warscroll changes will be there. Is reported in the WhC post by the author of the book.

It is a good chance to bring up older Warscrolls in line with modern ones.  For example the Wanderer Waystrider has a command ability where you roll a D6, and on a 6 a friendly Wanderer unit can pile in and attack again.  That would be an ideal candidate to have as just pile in and attack again instead of only on a 6.  Addressing sold older warscrolls in this manner would do a lot for players of older armies without updating a slew of armies to Battletomes.  

[Double Misfire]

I don't know about anyone else here, but boy am I getting bored of repeat wishlisting and unit cull predictions when so far we've got nothing to go on!

NEW THREAD QUESTION: What is your favourite of the established Free Cities, or have you created your own?

My personal favourite is Greywater Fastness, because Cannons (obviously), their having the same colour scheme as my existing Dwarf and Empire stuff (Averland 😢), and the fact I feel invested in them after registering so many results for Order in the UK in the 2016 Season of War global campaign.

Tempest's Eye is a close second, and I've been playing as them since Firestorm came out, mainly due to their allowed factions almost exactly matching the composition of my collection (Dwarfs, Empire, Swifthawk Agents, Kharadron, the few Stormcast I have being Tempest Lords), but wanting to go Stormcast free moving forward, and never wanting to have to paint anything in Middenheim (spit) colours, I can safely say my army'll be hopping through a Realmgate and back to Greywater with the advent of the new book.  

Edited July 25, 2019 by Double Misfire
oh boy my grammar is bad

[Knight Scáthach of Fimm]

15 minutes ago, Double Misfire said:

I don't know about anyone else here, but boy am I getting bored of repeat wishlisting and unit cull predictions when so far we've got nothing to go on!

NEW THREAD QUESTION: What is your favourite of the established Free Cities, or have you created your own?

My personal favourite is Greywater Fastness, because Cannons (obviously), their having the same colour scheme as my existing Dwarf and Empire stuff (Averland 😢), and the fact I feel invested in them after registering so many results for Order in the UK in the 2016 Season of War global campaign.

Tempest's Eye are a close second, and I've been playing as them since Firestorm came out, mainly due to their allowed factions almost exactly matching the composition of my collection (Dwarfs, Empire, Swifthawk Agents, Kharadron, the few Stormcast I have being Tempest Lords), but wanting to go Stormcast free moving forward, and never wanting to have to paint anything in Middenheim (spit) colours, I can safely say my army'll be hopping through a Realmgate and back to Greywater with the advent of the new book.  

I'm just prepping some info for my city of Bal'lahast. Will post it sometime today. Currently I'm a Freeguild player, and will use the most suitable city to represent my city.

[Double Misfire]

1 minute ago, Knight Scáthach of Fimm said:

I'm just prepping some info for my city of Bal'lahast. Will post it sometime today. Currently I'm a Freeguild player, and will use the most suitable city to represent my city.

Cool, can't wait to see it.  

[Charlo]

1 hour ago, zilberfrid said:

Hmm. So nothing in it that would make it a battletome for the old factions, just a reshuffle if you use city as allegiance?

I see this as a possibility, just a highly undesirable one.

I don't think it's a catch all battletome to update the old factions at all. It's a faction to represent the free Cities. If you're expecting more you're only going to be disappointed I'm afraid.

[zilberfrid]

20 minutes ago, Charlo said:

I don't think it's a catch all battletome to update the old factions at all. It's a faction to represent the free Cities. If you're expecting more you're only going to be disappointed I'm afraid.

Oh, I think I will be. I thought GW would finally do something for old factions, but it'll be little more than a reprint of Firestorm as an excuse to toss out old moulds.

Still, a reprint of Firestorm is more than nothing, and with a little luck there will be one allegiance that's halfway worth losing Great Companies.

[michu]

You're not losing anything? Freeguild (as a human-only faction) still have its Allegiance Abilities in GHB 2019? As it's not "Cities of Sigmar" you still will be able to use it?

- 

[Mandzak-Miniatures]

I’m hoping we get more previews soon. If it’s really “just a book” release I don’t see the point in dragging things out

[Knight Scáthach of Fimm]

1 minute ago, michu said:

You're not losing anything? Freeguild (as a human-only faction) still have its Allegiance Abilities in GHB 2019? As it's not "Cities of Sigmar" you still will be able to use it?

- 

Until next GHB, when I imagine it'll go

[michu]

Still a whole year of Great Companies.

[Charlo]

18 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

Oh, I think I will be. I thought GW would finally do something for old factions, but it'll be little more than a reprint of Firestorm as an excuse to toss out old moulds.

Still, a reprint of Firestorm is more than nothing, and with a little luck there will be one allegiance that's halfway worth losing Great Companies.

Not really...? From what it seems its 7 new allegiance abilities for the great free cities, that encompass the older factions.

You still have great companies and probably still will for the forseeable future!

[zilberfrid]

10 minutes ago, michu said:

You're not losing anything? Freeguild (as a human-only faction) still have its Allegiance Abilities in GHB 2019? As it's not "Cities of Sigmar" you still will be able to use it?

- 

I meant that switching allegiance away from Freeguild to a city is quite expensive, and I doubt whether a city gives somthing that makes it worthwhile.

The poor old warscrolls need all the help they can get.

[zilberfrid]

10 minutes ago, Knight Scáthach of Fimm said:

Until next GHB, when I imagine it'll go

Then we have replaced the entire Freeguild allegiance with a city? I certainly hope you'll be proven wrong.

[Knight Scáthach of Fimm]

1 minute ago, zilberfrid said:

Then we have replaced the entire Freeguild allegiance with a city? I certainly hope you'll be proven wrong.

That makes it seem like I've submitted to the notion when I merely suggested it