AoS 2 - Cities of Sigmar Discussion

[Saxon]

I hardly ever use allegiance artifacts as a lot of the realm artefacts are far more helpful for specific models i.e. gryph feather charm. 

Edited January 8, 2019 by Saxon

[Gwendar]

For GA: Order, definitely. Unsure exactly what I want to use on the Treelord however... I'll have to give everything a look-over to decide. Considering he will be the only way to generate Woods, I'm leaning on something to make him tankier.

[Popisdead]

On 1/7/2019 at 2:24 PM, Gwendar said:

Gryphounds only benefit Stormcast so it wouldn't do anything with the Sisters. I think I would rather just have the 1 CP over anything else regardless.

hmmm either that was changed or totally missed a few years ago.  I know it was common in the early days.  So much for me owning Gryphounds,...

On 1/7/2019 at 5:06 PM, Cynric said:

Which list is the knight found in? (Thanks for the reply)

He is a Stormcast Eternal.  His ability is re-roll hits of 1s.  Knight-Azyros is the proper spelling.  So that can work on combat or CC.  He also has some Mortal Wound output.  Similar to a Nomad Prince. 

[Yoshiya]

On 1/10/2019 at 12:17 AM, Popisdead said:

hmmm either that was changed or totally missed a few years ago.  I know it was common in the early days.  So much for me owning Gryphounds,...

He is a Stormcast Eternal.  His ability is re-roll hits of 1s.  Knight-Azyros is the proper spelling.  So that can work on combat or CC.  He also has some Mortal Wound output.  Similar to a Nomad Prince. 

Gryph Hounds were changed to be forced to be taken in larger units and their ability only affects Stormcast now. Given that they cost 140pts for a minimum unit you basically never see them anymore.

[Gwendar]

So, I've got a question for you all. I'm a bit stuck between two lists:

Allegiance: The Living City
Treelord Ancient (300)
- General
- Trait: Master of Defense
- Artefact: Phoenix Stone
Waywatcher (120)
Branchwraith (80)
Lord-Ordinator (140)
30 x Glade Guard (360)
20 x Dryads (200)
20 x Dryads (200)
10 x Sisters of the Watch (180)
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (200)
- Scythes
Celestar Ballista (100)
Celestar Ballista (100)

Total: 1980 / 2000



Or perhaps stick to my previously proposed list:

Allegiance: The Living City
Treelord Ancient (300)
- General
- Trait: Master of Defense
- Artefact: Phoenix Stone
Waywatcher (120)
Waywatcher (120)
Branchwraith (80)
30 x Glade Guard (360)
20 x Dryads (200)
20 x Dryads (200)
20 x Sisters of the Watch (360)
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (200)
- Scythes

Total: 1940 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1


I guess it really just comes down to who does more damage... 20 Sisters or 2 Ordinator buffed Ballistas? I know someone has posted average damage of Ballistas here previously but I seem to be having an off day and couldn't find it again. 

[Popisdead]

On 1/11/2019 at 2:52 AM, Yoshiya said:

Gryph Hounds were changed to be forced to be taken in larger units and their ability only affects Stormcast now. Given that they cost 140pts for a minimum unit you basically never see them anymore.

ahhhh...... snap. 

[Charlo]

Free Cities being able to take allies... Allies that can come from the old world compendiums no less... Wowsa, that is AWESOME.

Mixed order fun times may just be coming in the long term future.

[XReN]

On 1/8/2019 at 6:27 AM, Gwendar said:

For GA: Order, definitely. Unsure exactly what I want to use on the Treelord however... I'll have to give everything a look-over to decide. Considering he will be the only way to generate Woods, I'm leaning on something to make him tankier.

Try ethereal amulet from shyish + mystic shield or slowed cogs, for unrendable 3+ with either rerolls of 1s or 1s and 2s, plus you will always have an ability to speed things up if needed

[Cynric]

4 hours ago, Charlo said:

Free Cities being able to take allies... Allies that can come from the old world compendiums no less... Wowsa, that is AWESOME.

Mixed order fun times may just be coming in the long term future.

What did I miss (where is this written)?

[Aden]

5 hours ago, Cynric said:

What did I miss (where is this written)?

New AoS FAQ. 

[Cynric]

5 hours ago, Aden said:

New AoS FAQ. 

Thank you

[Yoshiya]

18 hours ago, XReN said:

Try ethereal amulet from shyish + mystic shield or slowed cogs, for unrendable 3+ with either rerolls of 1s or 1s and 2s, plus you will always have an ability to speed things up if needed

Don't even need mystic shield if you have a CA to spare. TLAs command ability already lets you rerollable save rolls of one.

[XReN]

2 minutes ago, Yoshiya said:

Don't even need mystic shield if you have a CA to spare. TLAs command ability already lets you rerollable save rolls of one.

Yeah, right, forgot about that

Edited January 25, 2019 by XReN

[Aden]

On 6/29/2018 at 5:44 PM, Nick in York said:

Oh, I've just thought - I think the new FAQ ruled that the TLA ability to grow a wyldwood can only be attempted once, irrespective of how many you have. So taking a second wouldn't help.

This is correct as per the 17/12 FAQ.

 

______________________________________________________________________________

Since cities can ally in anything in order as I understand it, I was thinking of playing with Assassins inside infantry and fluffing them as legendary champions like Achilles in Troy. There'll be no cavalry but I was hoping to use cogs to march units around in the event I can't parachute from the woods I need to. 

Living City Assassins
Allegiance: The Living City 

Freeguild General (100) 
Freeguild General (100)
Treelord Ancient (300)

Assassin (80)
Assassin (80)

20 x Freeguild Handgunners (200) 
40 x Freeguild Sword Guard (280) 
30 x Freeguild Crossbowmen (300) 
20 x Freeguild Handgunners (200)
40 x Freeguild Militia Guard (280)

ENDLESS SPELLS
Quicksilver Swords (20)
Chronomantic Cogs (60)TOTAL: 2000/2000
 

Edited January 25, 2019 by Aden
Flavorful Addendum

[Thalandor]

I've got a rule question regarding the army allegiance of Freecity armies.

Cancon 2019 saw several Freecity armies, some of them did pretty good. I noticed that some of them ran Order Allegiance, some of them used a subfaction (i.e. Scourge Privateers in an Anvilguard list) and other players were using a armylist(Swifthawk Agents) which would have been 100% eligible for a freecity allegiance (for example Tempest Eye) but didn't opt for it .

I was under the impression, that you were forced to use the Order Allegiance in conjunction with a freecity, but in the example above the Black Ark Corsairs were clearly ruled as battleline due to the army having Scourge Privateer allegiance.

Could someone please clear this up for me?

[Yoshiya]

4 hours ago, Thalandor said:

I've got a rule question regarding the army allegiance of Freecity armies.

Cancon 2019 saw several Freecity armies, some of them did pretty good. I noticed that some of them ran Order Allegiance, some of them used a subfaction (i.e. Scourge Privateers in an Anvilguard list) and other players were using a armylist(Swifthawk Agents) which would have been 100% eligible for a freecity allegiance (for example Tempest Eye) but didn't opt for it .

I was under the impression, that you were forced to use the Order Allegiance in conjunction with a freecity, but in the example above the Black Ark Corsairs were clearly ruled as battleline due to the army having Scourge Privateer allegiance.

Could someone please clear this up for me?

As per the FAQ, if an army allegiance has no allegiance abilities of its own, it effectively 'counts' as an Order army and uses their stuff.

Since the only condition for free cities is that you are using the order allegiance stuff and have models only from within the limited factions (although allies are now allowed), these armies are allowed to take the additional free city bonus.

It sounds pretty confusing (and it is) but basically it breaks down into the following;

- Allegiance with own allegiance abilities - must use own allegiance to qualify for battleline etc

- Order allegiance - can take free city

- Allegiance without own allegiance abilities - can take own battleline and free city

 

I really hope that GW either releases a battletome for free cities or an updated firestorm to clarify. The rules add a lot of flavour whilst not being OP yet tons of people don't even realise they qualify for using them.

[Cynric]

13 hours ago, Thalandor said:

I've got a rule question regarding the army allegiance of Freecity armies.

Cancon 2019 saw several Freecity armies, some of them did pretty good. I noticed that some of them ran Order Allegiance, some of them used a subfaction (i.e. Scourge Privateers in an Anvilguard list) and other players were using a armylist(Swifthawk Agents) which would have been 100% eligible for a freecity allegiance (for example Tempest Eye) but didn't opt for it .

I was under the impression, that you were forced to use the Order Allegiance in conjunction with a freecity, but in the example above the Black Ark Corsairs were clearly ruled as battleline due to the army having Scourge Privateer allegiance.

Could someone please clear this up for me?

Please disregard this post.  The faq/errata completely rewrote the applicable rules/examples.  Post retained for history....

 

 

I find it quite confusing.  I generally avoid confusing things as it is best for tranquility and happiness with friends, but since the question is on the table I'll comment...

Firestorm page 55, has an example of a city team that says if all stormcast you could be either stormcast or order alliegence, but if stormcast and freepeoples you gotta be order.

So if all wanders, I think you could be wanders allegiance (presumably with battalion) and gain a deployment option.  Similarly you could be all sylvaneth and gain a deployment option. 

But here is where my head hurts, what if you are wanders with normal wanders allie (within normal limits) cand you still be living city?  Further, what if you are sylvaneth with wanders allie (within normal constraints), it seems like you could have all the sylvaneth army abilities, spells, artifacts, battalions and also call it living city and deploy out of woods/any border with a set aside wanderer unit and of course being unable to give artifacts to the within city allie.

Alternatively you could go order and pick your allie team from anything in order.

 

All this said, edge cases arent the greatest thing for keeping friends.

Edited February 1, 2019 by Cynric
Discovered the faq/errata changed everything...

[Mandzak-Miniatures]

6 hours ago, Yoshiya said:

As per the FAQ, if an army allegiance has no allegiance abilities of its own, it effectively 'counts' as an Order army and uses their stuff.

Since the only condition for free cities is that you are using the order allegiance stuff and have models only from within the limited factions (although allies are now allowed), these armies are allowed to take the additional free city bonus.

It sounds pretty confusing (and it is) but basically it breaks down into the following;

- Allegiance with own allegiance abilities - must use own allegiance to qualify for battleline etc

- Order allegiance - can take free city

- Allegiance without own allegiance abilities - can take own battleline and free city

 

I really hope that GW either releases a battletome for free cities or an updated firestorm to clarify. The rules add a lot of flavour whilst not being OP yet tons of people don't even realise they qualify for using them.

Jesus.

Im already bogged trying to lead the rules and here I am trying to come up with how I can represent a AoS-version if araby. Very confused haha

[Beliman]

4 hours ago, Cynric said:

But here is where my head hurts, what if you are wanders with normal wanders allie (within normal limits) cand you still be living city?  Further, what if you are sylvaneth with wanders allie (within normal constraints), it seems like you could have all the sylvaneth army abilities, spells, artifacts, battalions and also call it living city and deploy out of woods/any border with a set aside wanderer unit and of course being unable to give artifacts to the within city allie.

I believe that It was FAQ'd. Maybe I'm wrong, but I remember that If you have any Allegiance Abilities, you must take them (without the option to chose GA:Order and free city abilities).

Imo, the main problem  is if you chose an allegiance that has "battleline if..." and NO abilities, then you pick Order+Free city AND an ally that you can pick because you are "Order" but you shoudn't because you used "battleline if..." because you previously took Y allegiance.

It's a bit blurry, technically you could chose this "allies", but picking them seems wrong if you took "battleline if..."  before.

[Cynric]

1 hour ago, Beliman said:

I believe that It was FAQ'd. Maybe I'm wrong, but I remember that If you have any Allegiance Abilities, you must take them (without the option to chose GA:Order and free city abilities).

Imo, the main problem  is if you chose an allegiance that has "battleline if..." and NO abilities, then you pick Order+Free city AND an ally that you can pick because you are "Order" but you shoudn't because you used "battleline if..." because you previously took Y allegiance.

It's a bit blurry, technically you could chose this "allies", but picking them seems wrong if you took "battleline if..."  before.

I think you are right.  The faq/errata completely rewrites the rules.   The battleline seems like it will need to come from one of the freecity resident lists and cant be a "battleline if" which can make this option less atttractive.

[Aezeal]

On 1/15/2019 at 3:10 PM, Gwendar said:

So, I've got a question for you all. I'm a bit stuck between two lists:

Allegiance: The Living City
Treelord Ancient (300)
- General
- Trait: Master of Defense
- Artefact: Phoenix Stone
Waywatcher (120)
Branchwraith (80)
Lord-Ordinator (140)
30 x Glade Guard (360)
20 x Dryads (200)
20 x Dryads (200)
10 x Sisters of the Watch (180)
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (200)
- Scythes
Celestar Ballista (100)
Celestar Ballista (100)

Total: 1980 / 2000



Or perhaps stick to my previously proposed list:

Allegiance: The Living City
Treelord Ancient (300)
- General
- Trait: Master of Defense
- Artefact: Phoenix Stone
Waywatcher (120)
Waywatcher (120)
Branchwraith (80)
30 x Glade Guard (360)
20 x Dryads (200)
20 x Dryads (200)
20 x Sisters of the Watch (360)
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (200)
- Scythes

Total: 1940 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1


I guess it really just comes down to who does more damage... 20 Sisters or 2 Ordinator buffed Ballistas? I know someone has posted average damage of Ballistas here previously but I seem to be having an off day and couldn't find it again. 

As a sylvaneth player I have to say that relying on a TLA to get forests (which are needed to make dryads viable) is not very reliable. If you mis first turn often due to movement etc you will not be able to put the forest where you left space for it. 

What is this list (mainly the allegiance) giving you that makes you want to have the living city allegiance over the sylvaneth allegiance? All units you use are possible allies and you only need to cut one unit to fit in allies allowance anyway (wait.. a bit more in the last list but still)... 

I personally don't think a mainly sylvaneth living city will be better than just a sylvaneth army. I'd say you might be better of looking for a mainly non-sylvaneth build and then add kurnoth hunters (since dryads and everything associated with them to generate to woods are not reliable enough). I've not played it.. just theoryhammering in my head I'll admit. But hunters always work and are worth their points in any army I'd say, the rest of sylvaneth.. less so. Taking a a lot of hunters is still an idea though :D. That last list for example already has quite some bodies in GG and SotW so changing dryads for Hunters and the TLA for another beefy general (I guess it'd end up being a stormcast mounted guy) or for the artillery in the upper list might work better

Edited February 1, 2019 by Aezeal

[Gwendar]

@Aezeal Appreciate the feedback, and these were kind of the points I was looking at over the last couple of weeks. I've just decided to go back into a full Wanderers allegiance over Living City in the end. I've had great success allying in some Sylvaneth bodies anyway so I will probably just stick to that.

[Aezeal]

5 hours ago, Gwendar said:

@Aezeal Appreciate the feedback, and these were kind of the points I was looking at over the last couple of weeks. I've just decided to go back into a full Wanderers allegiance over Living City in the end. I've had great success allying in some Sylvaneth bodies anyway so I will probably just stick to that.

Wanderers on the other hand do not have that much of an advantage in allegiance abilities  And also not THAT much great units. Living city would allow you to put some more good units in a wanderer list. I've not looked at it very much but the other armies must have some strong units that you can put next to some wanderer shooters and Kurnoth hunters :D. (For effectiveness I'd not pick wanderers over Sylvaneth allegiance myself).

[Gwendar]

7 hours ago, Aezeal said:

Wanderers on the other hand do not have that much of an advantage in allegiance abilities  And also not THAT much great units. Living city would allow you to put some more good units in a wanderer list. I've not looked at it very much but the other armies must have some strong units that you can put next to some wanderer shooters and Kurnoth hunters :D. (For effectiveness I'd not pick wanderers over Sylvaneth allegiance myself).

Nope, but I've said before if I wanted to be ultra-competitive, I would play another one of my armies. Being able to take a lesser-seen and under-strength army and doing well with it is something I enjoy, and the play style and aesthetic of pure Wanderers is right up my alley. My league games have gone pretty well with them so I've been content.

To keep it on Firestorm discussion, I still entertain the idea of running a 4 Ballista + 2 Steam Tank + Hurricanum + Luminark under a Greywater Fastness list just for the fun of it. Of course, I anticipate some reasonable changes to the Ballista at some point.

[Aezeal]

5 hours ago, Gwendar said:

Nope, but I've said before if I wanted to be ultra-competitive, I would play another one of my armies. Being able to take a lesser-seen and under-strength army and doing well with it is something I enjoy, and the play style and aesthetic of pure Wanderers is right up my alley. My league games have gone pretty well with them so I've been content.

To keep it on Firestorm discussion, I still entertain the idea of running a 4 Ballista + 2 Steam Tank + Hurricanum + Luminark under a Greywater Fastness list just for the fun of it. Of course, I anticipate some reasonable changes to the Ballista at some point.

Artilllery lists seem fun yes  I'd get some nice screens for protection though